Scoutmaster options - Improperly accomplished merit badges

[joeracz]

I need some information.

 

I just returned from summer camp with six scouts who completed the swimming merit badge. The camp we attended instructed and evaluated many of the events improperly. My biggest concerns are that the survival float and clothes inflation were all done in shallow water with the scouts standing on the bottom. Also, several of the scouts did the 150 yard swim using poor form and struggling to finish. (I mean REALLY struggling, to the point where I was worried about their safety.)

 

If it was any other merit badge I wouldn't lose sleep over it, but the swimming merit badge is a gateway to other activities (for example you must have the swimming merit badge before you can start the scuba merit badge. There are many other examples.)

 

I am the Troop Scoutmaster. What options do I have if I know that scouts have blue cards that say they earned the badge, but I know that they shouldn't have?

[Scoutfish]

First thing I want to point out is this: Just like we have higher expectations on our own kids, we have hiher expectations on the scouts in our troops and the scouts inour packs.

 

Now, you may not even realize this either.

 

Okay, look at Navy Seal training: The guys have to make somany underwater laps in a pool and in a certain amount of time. I have watched on TLC where a guy passed out right as he was getting out of the pool and still passed.

 

Why?

Because he completed the laps as prescribed in the requirements. Anything after that wasn't in the reguirement.

 

Basically, I am saying...the requirements say you have to swim "X" distance using "X" number of styles and making a sharp turn , right?

 

It doesn't say you have to be an expert, be in Olympic synchronized form, or be stylish in it. Bad or poor form is still a form.

 

Point is, they will only get better with experience and exposure.

 

Better form comes with experience.Having passed that merit badge does not mean that thes scouts are suddenly turned loose about 6 miles off the coast of India without any safeguards or suppervision.

 

Earning anything with scuba is probably not as bad as swiming: At least in scuba, you have a SCUBA TANK WITH AIR IN IT! ( not yelling - emphasizing.

 

Now you could be completely correct though.

 

So what do wqe know:

 

It's possible you are being too harsh. Possible is the key word.

 

It is possible the camp had a half A**ed program. But could be just fine too.

 

What I would do is ask a 4th party indepndant person to watch,, evaluate and then give you an honest opinion on the scouts ability as well as form. Maybe even aska 5th person.

 

Somebody not tied to the scouts or camp, but in scouting and familiar with the requirements.

[John-in-KC]

Let me be blunt.

 

You are too late.

 

You signed the application, authorizing the Scout to begin the Merit Badge. You had a week on site to look at what the Aquatics Director and his staff were doing. You had a week to have a friendly cup of coffee with your campsite and/or camp Commissioner and share about the issue. You had a week to have a quiet businesslike conversation with the the Aquatics Director. You had a week to have a quiet businesslike discussion with the Program Director. You had a week to have a businesslike discussion with the Camp Director.

 

You had a week to withdraw these youth from the class if you saw the training was inadequate, before the MB card was signed out.

 

The Scoutmaster is the Gatekeeper. When it's about the quality of the program presented to your charges, the youth, the buck stops with you.

 

Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088 gives you little latitude. As long as a properly certified Counselor signed out the MB, it's a done deal. There are specific instructions in ACP&P for how the Council Advancement Committee is to certify Counselors serving the Council LT camping programs. I presume your Council adhered to those.

 

You saw errors at the time. Who did you raise the flag with?

 

Now, as to your options: May I recommend some heavy arm-twisting on your PLC for lots of aquatics activities over the coming year? May I recommend a quiet conversation with the parents, advocating swimming lessons? May I advocate SM conferences with the youth concerned, encouraging them to continue to develop their skills?

 

Tend your flame, Sir. It needs tending. Learn from this episode, Sir, that you will ensure other Scouts get program which passes muster.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Twocubdad]

The awarding of the MB is a done deal. Once the signatures are on the cards, you don't have much to do with it.

 

But from a safety standpoint, you and your troop don't have to accept the MB of proof of the boys' swimming ability. Because BSA uses Swimming MB as an automatic gateway for a lot of things, it does mean you have to keep up with what aquatics activities these boys are into for awhile -- at least until they can demonstrate their swimming proficiency to you. I suppose this is one good reason swim checks are done annually.

 

For example, next summer they all want to take canoeing MB. As SM you can decline to sign a blue card authorizing them to do so. The troop is going on a whitewater trip and Swimming MB is a requesite for going. Mysteriously the requirement changes from having the MB to "demonstrate your swimming proficiency" which gives you some wiggle room. Of course the best outcome will be, as J-K-C notes, be for the troop to plan some swimming programs so the boys can work on their skills and get up to speed.

 

While you may have to award the MB you don't have to bury your head in the sand in regards to these boys' ability.

[shortridge]

I definitely agree with John on his recommendation for emphasizing aquatics activities in the coming year. The best thing you can do is to support your Scouts - all your Scouts, not just these six - and get them out on and in the water as much as possible.

 

You also should remember that you are the gatekeeper for the other MBs as well. If one of these Scouts comes to you next year and says "I want to take SCUBA at camp," and you haven't seen him do any swimming in the year since, I think you'd be within your rights to ask the Scout to re-do a swim test to make sure he can handle the level of ability that SCUBA requires.

 

As far as the clothes inflation goes, it took me quite a few times to get it right as a scrawny Tenderfoot my first year at camp. (I also thought it was a little silly from a practical perspective - when I'm out on a boat, I'm usually in swim trunks and a t-shirt, not slacks and a button-up dress shirt. Maybe I need to go on more fancy-dress cruises or something.) But I later went on to do Lifesaving, Canoeing, Small-Boat Sailing and the Mile Swim. So the Scout whose strokes were ragged this summer may, with some strong encouragement and plenty of opportunities, just become your next BSA Lifeguard in a few years' time.

 

I understand not wanting to interrupt a lesson, but it's your right and responsibility as your unit's chief program officer if you see something not being done safely or up to snuff. If nothing else, a word with the aquatics director or pool supervisor immediately after would have probably done the trick.

 

As a side note, having worked on camp staff for five years, I was always amazed by the small but consistent number of Scoutmasters who would hold on to their complaints or concerns during the week and then raise a stink in their post-camp evaluations. The commissioner who visits your campsite every day - and I did that for several years, in addition to teaching Scoutcraft classes and leading special programs - isn't just there to check for litter, a clean latrine and properly rolled tent flaps. He's there to hear those concerns and be your direct channel to the program and camp directors. If a SM spends five days saying "Hey, everything's peachy," he or she doesn't have much of a right to complain afterwards.

 

Even if this was something observed in the last session on the last full day of camp, that still leaves time for the SM to talk with the appropriate folks and ask that the pool be re-opened before Saturday breakfast for a re-do to make sure your Scouts have been properly instructed and tested.

[desertrat77]

True, the horse has left the barn. Nothing can be done now but to take it as a good lesson.

 

On the other hand, I respectfully disagree with Scoutfish: Sir, the swimming MB isn't a familiarization effort, or a gold star for showing a jolly good try. It's a MB that counts for Eagle, and if the scouts can't satisfactorily swim the prescribed course, they they aren't ready to swim anywhere that might require some effort.

 

It's also a safety issue. No doubt a few of the scouts now think their swimming is pretty good because they got that MB. Overconfidence in the water without the skills to match is a recipe for trouble.

 

If memory serves, swimming MB is a pre-req for lifesaving MB. But as others have pointed out, their inability to swim with any confidence and strength will be fully evident the first time they jump in the pool and swim a lap under the scrutiny of the lifesaving instructor. If they are still weak swimmers, they'll be excused from the class.

[Eagle732]

I just dealt with the same issue with a different summer camp MB. For Wilderness Survival MB the Scout was supposed to build a shelter and spend the night in it (Req. 8), this was to be done near our campsite. The Scout made minimal effort and completes the shelter only with help from an ASM then spends a total of 5 min. in the shelter. He comes to tell me he does not feel safe in his shelter even though he is only about 20' from the other tents. I allow him to go back to his tent telling him he will not complete the MB if he doesn't spend a night in the shelter. Last day of camp the Scout come to me with a signed off blue card. Apparently the camp counselor accepted the story that the Scout built a shelter with friends at home and spent the night in it. I kept the card and told the Scout that he did not complete the requirements and he will not receive the MB until he does. Right or wrong? I don't care, I've seen so many summer camp MBs go to Scouts that did not complete the requirements. Another example this year was Signaling MB in 3 hours with no previous experience or practice in Morse code or semaphore! I showed the Scouts the MB book I had for it and they admitted they did none of the requirements. The camp is cheating the Scouts out of the opportunity to learn a skill, an opportunity their parents paid for. Last year one of my Scouts took Archeology MB. Req. 8 says they need to spend 8 hours on an Archeological site. The camp staff took that to mean they should take a large bowl filled with dirt and bury a few objects in it such as a neckerchief slide, coin and old bottle cap and then let the boys stick their hand in the bowl and pull something out and identify it! I watched this myself and couldn't believe it.

[desertrat77]

Eagle732, I wonder if some summer camps make MBs easier as part of a unofficial marketing scheme to get more scouts back next summer.

 

I applaud SMs to hold their scouts to the standards. The scouts are talented and bright enough for the challenges. If not at that moment, perhaps next summer. They will prize that MB all the more.

 

There are still camps that keep MB standards high--not impossible, not adding to the requirements, but when a scout passes that last requirement, they know they earned the MB fair and square.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

The way to raise standards is to have your COR tell the Council President why Troop NNN will not attend the local Council Camp next summer. The way to raise standards is for Scoutmasters to get up their moral courage and have frank discussions with camp management during the session about inadequate quality. The way to raise standards is to withdraw Scouts from classes before the Lodge Director/AD/MB Counselor signs out the merit badge. This last includes having the backbone to tell parents, your CC/COR, and unit commissioner about sub-par instruction.

 

Simply withholding the completed badge from the Scout is churlish.

 

Barry (Eagledad) says it a little different than I: The Scoutmaster is the keeper of the program flame.

[Eagle732]

John,

"The way to raise standards is to have your COR tell the Council President why Troop NNN will not attend the local Council Camp next summer."

Did that, spoke to the Council Executive myself, threatened go out of council to camp next year. And this is from a unit that has for years camped at the council camp.

 

"The way to raise standards is for Scoutmasters to get up their moral courage and have frank discussions with camp management during the session about inadequate quality."

Did that. I had a very frank discussion with the Camp Director and Program Director.

 

"The way to raise standards is to withdraw Scouts from classes before the Lodge Director/AD/MB Counselor signs out the merit badge."

Not practical. There seems to be a tendency for the youth councilors to wrap up their MBs on Weds. or Thurs. so they can have the rest of the week free. By then it's too late for Scouts to start another MB.

 

"This last includes having the backbone to tell parents, your CC/COR, and unit commissioner about sub-par instruction."

Did that. Had a Parent/Committee meeting last night with the CC and COR in attendance. I made my feelings known.

 

In this particular case the problem was mainly with the Scouts attitude that he didn't have to complete the requirements and then BS'ed councilor and got him to sign off. Scout will earn the MB when he completes the requirement. Myself, CC, COR, our resident Wilderness Survival MB councilor, and after a discussion even the Scout all agree.

 

Churlish? I had to look that one up.

1 : of, resembling, or characteristic of a churl : vulgar

2 : marked by a lack of civility or graciousness : surly

3 : difficult to work with or deal with.

Not sure which one of these definitions you're referring to me. This is the reason why I haven't posted here for a while.

 

 

[shortridge]

"Not practical. There seems to be a tendency for the youth councilors to wrap up their MBs on Weds. or Thurs. so they can have the rest of the week free. By then it's too late for Scouts to start another MB."

 

Here's another topic worthy of a frank conversation with your council staff and camp staff, then.

 

No. 1, there should be no youth counselors. Youth staff under 18 may assist with instruction, but a qualified 18-year-old (minimum) should always be signing off on each Scout, individually.

 

No. 2, the camp staff is there to serve your unit. Program should be planned out to take maximum advantage of the time available. Now, if you only have two or three Scouts taking Wilderness Survival, it would be possible to finish up in a few days. And a Scout can certainly complete Basketry in a single day. But if the camp staff is rushing through badges as a matter of course so they can have a free period to goof off, that's a huge problem.

[Gary_Miller]

shortridge; "No. 1, there should be no youth counselors. Youth staff under 18 may assist with instruction, but a qualified 18-year-old (minimum) should always be signing off on each Scout, individually."

 

Its not practical to not have youth under 18 as counselors at summer camp since this is the age most willing to work for the pay offered. At our camp there is an 18 yr old who is the director of the area with youth counselors for each MB. The director signs off the card based on the recommendations of the youth counselors.

 

If it was not this way then the cost of camps would have to be much more in order to staff the camps with over 18yr olds at each MB station.

[desertrat77]

John, let me get this straight: according to your post, the SM has the responsibility to inform or correct, or ensure others coordinate with, the following people to keep standards high:

 

COR

Council President

Camp management

Lodge Director/AD/MB Counselor

Parents

CC/COR

Unit commissioner

 

If I read your post right, the SM is the only person in this equation that is supposed to have the backbone to tell all these folks how the cow eats the cabbage?

 

Aside from the parents, what responsibility does the council president, etc., have?

 

Some of these folks, like the council present and camp management, are paid. And you suggest that a volunteer SM has to follow up after them, to remind them to do the most basic elements of their jobs?

 

Sounds like you are cutting them a bunch of slack.

 

Except the parents, all these highly-trained scouters serve the SM, and the troops. Together they keep the standards high.

 

For you to castigate an unpaid SM for the failure of paid professionals, and silver/gold loop volunteers, is frankly breathtaking.

 

The SM is indeed the keeper of the flame. The folks that serve in the org chart above him have jobs to do--primarily, to enable the SM to keep that flame lit.

 

If the SM has to bird dog all these folks to keep them from being slackers, the BSA is clearly in a pickle.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[shortridge]

Gary,

 

It doesn't matter if it's practical or not. Them's the rules! Direct from National:

 

"The same qualifications and rules for merit badge counselors apply to council summer camp merit badge programs. All merit badge counselors must be at least 18 years of age. Camp staff members under age 18 may assist with instruction but cannot serve in the role of the merit badge counselor."

 

If the rules are impractical, then why do they exist? If your council isn't following the rules and delivering adult association as part of its camp merit badge program, then your COR needs to be asking some very hard questions why. For too long, councils have been allowed to quietly skate by and skirt the rules, paying 15- and 16-year-olds to do the job of 18-year-olds. Why do we let them?

 

If the people who make up the "horror BORs" for Eagle that we hear about so much on these forums would spend a tenth of their time studying and critiquing their summer camp programs as they do grilling prospective Eagle candidates, I daresay the quality of the program would increase tenfold.

 

=========

 

desertrat wrote:

 

"If I read your post right, the SM is the only person in this equation that is supposed to have the backbone to tell all these folks how the cow eats the cabbage?

Aside from the parents, what responsibility does the council president, etc., have?

Some of these folks, like the council present and camp management, are paid. And you suggest that a volunteer SM has to follow up after them, to remind them to do the most basic elements of their jobs?"

 

Not to put words in John's mouth, but IMHO, it certainly is the SM's responsibility to inform his or her COR that the council is not delivering on its program promises. It's then the COR's job to complain to the council hierarchy. That's the way the chain of command works.

 

As the person on the spot during summer camp, it's also the SM's responsibility to speak up to the camp management and staff when he or she sees somethign out of whack.

 

It's entirely possible that the camp director and program director don't know that things are being done shabbily, if the area director doesn't tell them. The camp leadership sends its senior staff to NCS, trains them, approves lesson plans, etc., but can't be on the spot for every second of every program. Believe it or not, during a busy week of camp, the average SM gets around camp more than the average CD or PD! They're busy dealing with vendors, ordering equipment, putting out fires, filling in for sick staffers, etc. If you see something wrong, you absolutely have a responsibility to make a note of that and let the appropriate people know.

 

My interpretation of John's post was that the SM needs to communicate the situation and explain what happened. To the parents, the SM should explain why he chose to pull their sons from a sub-par program offering. To the unit commissioner, the SM should explain exactly what the problems were and ask him or her to communicate those concerns to the district and thus to the council.

 

If an SM doesn't have time to talk with the COR, parents and the unit commissioner, then he or she doesn't really have time to be a good SM.

 

Besides, when was the last time you saw your council president (which I don't believe is a paid position) at summer camp?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[desertrat77]

Shortridge, I absolutely agree that SM feedback has to happen, and happen on the spot.

 

What I took exception with in John's post was his theory of saddling of the SM with the responsibility for ensuring standards are kept. Seemed everyone else got a free pass, including the people who are paid for keeping standards.

 

I understand how busy camp staffers, particularly directors, can be (was a camp staffer myself as a scout). However, SMs are busy too. They go to camp, often at the expense of their family vacation time. They shouldn't have to bird dog paid staff in addition to running a troop.

 

As for the council president, agreed, a rarely seen person. I got this title from John's post where he charged the SM to "have your COR tell the Council President...."

 

I think the SM deserves more respect, not only in this scenario, but in many other facets of BSA practice today as well.

 

PS I believe you are right, council president isn't a paid position, I stand corrected.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)