Son frustrated with eagle process

[mmmmontano]

My son has been frustrated trying to find an Eagle project. After talking with school principal and agreeing about the need for benches(qty.4-6) in front of the school ,my son talked with his eagle advisor. He told my son it wasn't big enough,2 weekends is not enough work,didn't involve enough scouts and that he could not use his school friends to help with the welding and would be rejected by the committee.He then was told about the length of some of the previous eagle projects for this troop in the 400 to 600 hour range.

 

I guess I'm frustrated too. After being involved in eagle projects ranging from 80 to over 1000 when I was a SM in another Troop I always looked at the amount leadership required to manage a project during the approval process not some magical number of hours.

 

He also turns 18 in 3 months.

 

Any thoughts/suggestions I can offer my son would be appreciated.

 

thx

I used to be a Fox.

 

MM

[Ohio_Scouter]

mmmmontano,

 

Any other troops in your area that would be willing to register your son and help him complete a reasonable Eagle service project?

[Lisabob]

I'd agree that this sounds a bit over the top in terms of the SM's expectations. However, with 3 months until his 18th birthday it seems that there are rather few options.

 

One is to suggest your son sit down again with the SM and perhaps another trusted adult (NOT you - sorry, dad) and talk the matter through again. Your son could seek clarification on where these requirements that the SM is talking about come from, given that they certainly aren't in the literature anywhere, and lots of Eagle scouts do projects of the type he's looking at. He might also seek clarification on why non-scout labor is unacceptable to the SM and where he would find those written guidelines (I believe the Eagle workbook actually states the opposite, but I don't have a copy in front of me). Taking this route successfully probably means he needs to be able to have this conversation man-to-man and not annoyed teenager-to-Scoutmaster, so I think it depends a little on whether he can carry it off with diplomatic skill, or whether he's going to lose his cool.

 

On this front it might also help him to have the principal of the school provide some enthusiastic supporting documentation for the project - ie, a letter or email to the SM, or even call the SM and ask him to reconsider because the school sure would benefit from this project and LifeScout Johnny is such a well-regarded member of the school community, blah blah blah.

 

Another route would be to just quickly locate a project that will get the SM's approval, do it, and bite his tongue. With 3 months to go he may find this the most expedient option even though I still agree with you that the SM's expectations are out of wack.

 

Another one, of course, would be to say "forget it" and not earn Eagle, but if he's this close then that would be kind of a shame. Encourage him to see this as a life lesson (there are all sorts of people out there and some of them are tougher to deal with than others) instead of a valid reason to give up on something he's worked toward for years.

 

Best of luck to you and your son in this matter.

 

 

[evmori]

There is no required number of hours for an Eagle Project! Not being big enough or not involving enough Scouts is not a valid excuse. Ask Eagle Advisor to show you where National states there are a required amount of hours or Scouts must be the only helpers.

 

Anyone can help with an Eagle project. It really stinks when people in these positions want to impose their own rules! It isn't their advancement!

 

Go to your council advancement chair & file a complaint.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[John-in-KC]

1) Sit down, adult to adult, and ask the "Eagle Advisor" to show you policies from Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, BSA #33088.

 

2) Start talking with other Troops.

 

3) While I agree in principle with Ed, I think a lot of Districts have an idea in their mind of a workload that will support a "reasonable level of effort." In my neck of the woods, if your project estimate is below 100MH, folks start asking questions.

[Eamonn]

mmmmontano,

From what you have posted it seems to me that someone somewhere has got it wrong.

There is no required amount of hours and I have yet to see where it states that only Scouts can help in the project.

The person who is saying this needs to be given the right information, not only for the sake of your son, but for the Scouts who will one day follow.

If you have a Unit Commissioner? He or she might be able to inform this person of what the requirements really are, failing that I'd try the District or Council Advancement Chairman.

If your DE has a Scouting background maybe he or she might be able to help, but if he or she is doing their job right? Don't be surprised if you get sent back to the District Advancement Chairman.

Do be sure to tell your son to not get frustrated!! Scouter's are human and at times do make mistakes. I feel sure once this person is given the correct information and has a chance to digest it, everything will be fine.

Ea.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, mmmmm....

 

I think this is one for your son to work out with his SM, if da "Eagle Advisor" seems to be throwin' up unnecessary hurdles. Of course, the man is just an advisor, eh? So your son can put together a proposal and take it to the SM, Committee, and district without his approval.

 

Without knowin' your lad and seein' the project, it's hard to say from afar what the issues are. I can certainly find some "prefab bench kits" that an average teen could assemble easily with a buddy, which wouldn't meet most of our standards for an Eagle project for a 17 year old HS senior. Now you mention welding, which would be more work, but it's probably work done by one experienced welder, eh? So your son gets the parts, someone welds them, and he plops 'em down... that also wouldn't meet the requirements.

 

That havin' been said, there's also bench projects like this that involve some fundraisin' and real leadership in assembling and mounting.

 

As others have mentioned, there's no "magical number of hours" for an Eagle project. Troops do use guidelines to give kids an idea, which sounds like what your son's troop is doin'. They didn't say his project had to be 400-600 hours, eh? Just that that was da range that was normal for them. That's a troop with high expectations of kids, and they should be respected for that. Around here, 14-year-olds tend to have projects in the 50-150 hour range, and 17-year-olds tend to have projects in the 150-300 hour range, but it varies a lot more by troop expectations than it does by anything else. Most of us want to be sure the project is a "stretch" for each lad.

 

Finally, sometimes when troop leaders are draggin' their feet on a project approval, it's because there are also issues with other requirements like Scout Spirit and leadership, eh? Scouters usually move heaven and earth to help a kid who has been a regular, positive force in the troop. But like most humans, they don't turn their lives upside down to help a lad who perhaps hasn't met da other expectations for Eagle in their eyes. Just somethin' for your son to think about before he meets with his SM.

 

That's where da next stop on the trail is, though. I think your son needs to set up an appointment with his SM. Bring his project proposal, his uniform, his best attitude, and lay things out and ask for help.

 

Beavah

 

[allangr1024]

A few things:

 

1. The committee advancement guy is definately giving bad advice. Anyone can work on an eagle project as long as your son recruits them and leads them. In our council, this is seen as a plus.

 

2. If the scout can estimate a reasonable number of hours for the project, it is viable. There is no definition for "not big enough".

 

3. This is a good eagle project. One of the guys in my sons troop did benches for a school. His dad is a welder, and the scout has learned welding, so he welded the benches in his garage for 3 Saturdays, the other scouts sanded them, and on a Sunday they bolted them to the concrete at the school. They put in 8 benches in various places. Total hours 80 to 100. Project completed to everyones specifications. Eagle earned. I don't know why someone posted that this is not a good eagle project. If the District Advancement committee approves, why not?

 

 

 

 

[Venividi]

If the District Advancement committee approves, why not?

 

In our district, the district advancement committee relies on the units to vett Eagle projects. Had a talk with the district advancement chair, who said they did not want to be positioned as the "bad guy" that says no. With the rare occasion of a proposed routine labor projects such as picking up litter along roads and trails, the district advancement committee supports any project that the a unit believes to sufficiently demonstrate leadership to unit standards.

 

[scoutingagain]

I would talk to the District Advancement person, not to necessarily overturn your unit eagle advisor,(who I agree, is giving bad advice), but to re-calibrate him. Find out what other candidates are doing in your district that have been accepted and show how they compare in the level of effort and leadership required for your son's project.

 

Your son's project would very likely fly in my district, provided as Beavah indicated, there's a bit more to it than putting together some pre-fabbed kits from the local big box hardware store.

 

My son recently completed a project to repair storage shelves for the HS Band. Ran about 150 hours. Included efforts from band members, the HS shop teacher as well as scouts.

 

Compared to other projects scouts in the town have done in terms of level of effort it fell in the middle, and probably in the lower half, but not by much. However, it was a highly visible project(Everyone in the HS new what it was for.) and turned virtually unusable space into needed storage space for the band. He got a lot of thanks from the band director, principal and bandmembers.

 

I like projects for High Schools. It shows that your son is proud to be a scout and is willing to show his peers he will lead them in service to their school. It shows the schools scouts are out there and willing to help. Better than another trail to nowhere no one will ever hear about or use again.

 

SA

[Eagle1991]

Your SM is feeding you BS. Projects have no time requirement, just as long as you have shown sufficient leadership ability to at least two scouts you should be fine. Either talk to him or get another troop, 3 months is not a lot of time at all.

 

Christian

Eagle Scout