Has this ever happened to you?

[Joe MacDoaks]

I keep seeing where people post that a Scout could be denied his Eagle because he got a merit badge from a MBC that was not registered. I don't see how this could happen. You never enter who the MBC is when you make an advancement report. The only record is the blue card. I have never seen blue cards checked for a scout. My Council doesn't even use blue cards at our council camp. The SM gets a print out with requirements that are met at the end of the week. No blue card is ever signed at camp. You enter the information off of the print out for your advancement report. Also, with people moving around the way they do, what if a boy moves from one council to another council. Are you going to deny a boy his Eagle because he lost a blue card when he moved? Most scouts don't keep up with blue cards any way.

 

I find Boy Scout record keeping to be a joke. You need to make sure a boy has the correct time between ranks and that he has the proper number of merit badges for his rank but, that seems to be about it to me. You only neeed to do this because the information is readily obtainable from the entry of your advancement reports. Everything else is icing on the cake.

 

So has any one actually had a boy denied Eagle because he got a merit badge from a MBC that wasn't registered?

[Stosh]

I would find this to be quite unlikely.

 

First of all I have had 14 years experience as the ASM in charge of advancement and have never heard of such a situation.

 

Any merit badge cards or reports we get we as a troop submit the paperwork to the council, not the merit badge school, summer camp staff, MB counselor or scout himself. If we have no paperwork we submit no paperwork to get a merit badge.

 

As a precaution to such a problem for an Eagle Scout, about 9 months before he will qualify for Eagle rank, we get a printout of the boy's record from the council office and compare it to the record we have for the boy and the record the boy keeps. If there is a problem, we have time to correct it.

 

Stosh

[ASM59]

Joe,

 

Never had it happen specifically, but I believe this is one of those areas that varies dependant on the Council/District rules. I just finished talking to our District Advancement Chair person, with regard to a Scout that is very close to Eagle. He has lost a few "Blue Cards" and one Rank Card for Star. She said that as long as it is recorded on the official advancement record of the Council that he obtained these MB's and Rank, then there would be no problem and no discussion regarding it.

 

We have just reorganized from 3 districts to 2 districts and have a different Advancement Chair now. I had this same discussion with the Advancement Chair from the previous District earlier in the year and the opinion was different. He said that we would need to go back and recreate all the advancement cards and blue cards with the original SM signatures and MB Counselor signatures. The hope would have been that we could find the origninal MB Counselors to do this, but at least two of the MB's were earned at an out of Council Summer Camp in a neighboring State. It was expained that if the Scout took the MB again, then the dates would not line up with when Star and Life ranks were obtained and would call into question the validity of those ranks being awarded when they were.

 

You see, there was a difference in opinion within the same Council in this case with regard to whether the Blue Card is even needed. At least in the opinion of our new District Advancement Chair, your argument would hold up...

 

ASM59

[ASM59]

One more thought, I think that there must always be a Blue Card or some other paperwork to verify that a MB was earned. I know that when we turn in advancement paperwork with MB's on it, that a copy of either the Council's portion of the Blue Card or a copy of the paperwork showing that the MB was earned is always attached and I believe that it must be attached inorder for the Council to enter it as completed. Every MB that we have had completed at either a MB University or at a Summer Camp always either has a Blue Card or a print out with a MB Counselor's signature or Council Summer Camp stamp. If there is not a Blue Card for the Scout to keep with his records, then a copy of the print out is made for him to keep in his records.

 

ASM59

[ASM915]

As far as I know, we have not had this happen. But our District and the Dac's have a system set up. there is a MB czar. They prefer a Scout to take a MB from a MBC within the District if at all possible. They don't have a problem with the Scout going out of District if there is no MBC in the District, but would like it kept within Council.

 

If the Scout is going to an out of Council event, they would like to be consulted first by the SM to discuss the specifics, if the SM is privy to what the Scout is doing. They don't want the Scout going somewhere for a weekend and coming back with 4 MB's. Short of hard to pull off 4 MB's in such a short time-frame. Now my youngest sons special needs charter school is set up as a Pack and Troop and have MBC's that work for the system from neighboring Councils. The DAC know this and doesn't have a problem with a MB that was earned through the school.

 

When the blue card is turned in to a Troop, they hold the Scouts portion and give it back to him at the COH. They send to the MB czar, who then records it and files it away by Troop and Scout name. I hate to see his basement or attic. This system may seem overboard, but it has saved many a Scouts their Eagle rank when there was a date discrepancy, a lost card etc. Granted the MB czar isn't real happy having to go into the archives, but it usually ends up being worth it in the longrun.

 

What can the Scout do to make sure he doesn't lose a blue card. Have him go out and buy a sportscard holder for a 3 ring notebook. They are the same size as the sports cards and each sheet holds something like 9-12 cards.

[scoutldr]

As it stands in our area, the QA check is with the SM. He/She is responsible for assuring that the Scouts are working only with approved/registered MBC. Once the SM signs the card and submits the advancement report, it's a done deal and no further checks are made. A weakness in the program, IMHO.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmmm.... just amazes me da bureaucracy some well-meaning district folks try to put in place, eh? One would think there'd be a better use of volunteer time on behalf of kids.

 

Nah, Joe, I've never seen this happen. Once da record has been entered into ScoutNet (either directly online by the troop or by the council registrar), that's the official record. Remember it's da Council Registrar who is the official signer for MB's and ranks on an Eagle Scout Application. So if it's in the system, and the Registrar signs, ain't nothing the DAC or CAC can do. I suppose a few folks might try, but would get a stern talkin' to by the Council Program Director and District Chair and there wouldn't even be a need to appeal.

 

Now a district or council could in theory try to screen for blue cards and MBC's before they're entered into ScoutNet. At a larger district/council I've never seen anyone even look at blue cards beyond the unit level. A few folks try and give up after a few months. In a smaller district/council it's possible, I guess, but there's a lot of troops that go to out-of-council summer camps and programs, camporees, etc. And if I remember right, da blue card only has a spot for the counselor's signature, not printed name. Can yeh imagine tryin' to decipher everyone's scrawl? And in da end, all the troop would have to do was submit a MBC application for the person anyway to square the records, and nobody makes any money off of those, eh?

 

But da real question is "what are we tryin' to do for the boys?" If someone's got a burr in their britches about MBC's, they should take it up with da troop leaders or the camp director, not the scout. Politely. The kid was just relyin' on the camp or SM to make sure the MBC was kosher, eh? No point in givin' him grief.

 

And are we really doin' such a thorough job of verifying MBC qualifications that any of this paperwork polka really amounts to anything but a waste of time? Has anybody ever seen a MBC application rejected?

 

Beavah

 

[epalmer84]

Beavah has the right of it ScoutNet is the official record. When a Scout makes Life, we get a printout of his record and bump it against our TroopMaster records and resolve any discrepancies then. It is good to keep the cards. It is nice to look back after thirty years and see those signatures on the cards.

 

Ed

[Eagle69]

Some of your Councils are amazingly organized and also seem to be creating rules out of thin air. I've been a SM for 27 years and signed off 25+ Eagles and hundreds of Merit Badges and the blue cards have never gone anywhere outside the Troop level. In my Council there is no such thing as a District/Council Merit Badge counselor list, I've seen reports from Summer Camp on Blue Cards and on a generic piece of paper with the Merit Badge name and the list of requirements completed/not completed and a staffer name. The ones that are completed were sent to the Council Office on a standard advancement form and I never had a Registrar ask to see a blue card or want to know who the Merit Badge Counselor was. It's just amazing to read these threads and see the differences between the way Councils operate.

[eolesen]

Haven't seen it happen, but I'm sure it could. And with my luck, it will be called into question a week before my son's 18th birthday.

 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the boy who moves and changes Councils. That happened to my son, and we wound up showing the blue cards to the new troop's AC when we registered him. Councils don't have a simple way of getting advancement information transferred from council to council. Likewise with registrations... I had to re-register as did my son.

[GernBlansten]

At a round table, the advancement guru dictated to all in attendance that merit badge advancement forms would now be validated against the district merit badge councilor list.

I asked him if new forms would be issued with a slot for councilor on the form. He said, no that we would continue to use the standard BSA form. I then asked if we needed to turn in blue cards. He said no, since our summer camps don't use them.

I then asked how the district would validate the councilors. He just repeated that they would be checking.

I yielded my remaining time to the chair.

Whatever!

[ASM59]

Wow, I'm suprised that you had so much trouble with transfering to another Council. We had a boy join our Troop that had moved from Wichita, KS. I contacted his old Council and they faxed a copy of his Advancement Report to me and mailed a disk with his ScoutNet data to our local Council. Our Council accepted that information as valid and accurate. 16 months later this boy sat at his Eagle BOR and had absolutely no problem getting his Eagle.

 

ASM59

[Eagle69]

It all just shows that even though National may say here are the rules, each council seems to interpret them their own way. The burden falls on us, the leaders, to make sure a kid doesn't get shafted somewhere along the way. Sometimes we have to play the game by the rules of the organizer even though we know that they aren't right.

[Beavah]

At a round table, the advancement guru dictated to all in attendance that merit badge advancement forms would now be validated against the district merit badge councilor list.

I asked him if new forms would be issued with a slot for councilor on the form. He said, no that we would continue to use the standard BSA form. I then asked if we needed to turn in blue cards. He said no, since our summer camps don't use them.

I then asked how the district would validate the councilors. He just repeated that they would be checking.

I yielded my remaining time to the chair.

Whatever!

 

LOL :) I think that district is quite advanced, eh? They're usin' ESP!

 

Yah, I'm not sure what da problem is transferrin' between councils. Yeh give the name and council number of your old council, registrar looks it up on ScoutNet. Poof, presto, you're done.

 

Biggest issues I've seen are "lost" or "never entered" records. Can happen either at the troop or council level. That's when yeh grab an advancement card/MB card or a blue card and use it to fill out a new advancement report.

 

B

 

[jr56]

I've never seen this happen.