Moral dilema

[Joe MacDoaks]

I took over my sons troop just before summer camp. At our last court of honor before I became scoutmaster the old scoutmaster told two boys that they had earned the rank of star. He had not done a Scoutmaster conference or a board of review because he never did these things for any advancement. He also told me at one point that one of these boys had earned a merit badge and that he was going to enter it for the boy.

 

These items have not been entered but, the boys, the troop and all of the parents believe that the boys have these ranks and badges. I am at a point that we have to have a court of honor and I have to enter merit badges from summer camp. I would have done this earlier but I have been waiting on the old scoutmaster to get records up to date. We have talked about this several times and he keeps telling me that he is going to enter this information. I am at the point now that I am sure he isn't going to enter the information.

 

My question is what would you do? Would you enter the information and consider it stuff that was done on the other scoutmasters watch or tell the boys that they have to redo the requirements. You have to also understand that every boy in the troop that earned a rank under the old scoutmaster never had a board of review except for boys getting Eagle.

 

I work in a highly requlated environment where my signature means a lot to me and where I can sign things that can affect my company a great deal. My signature is precious to me and I am reluctant to just give it away. I am also reluctant to make a child suffer or become discouraged because of an adult who doesn't feel rules apply to him. We have started doing boards of review for rank advancements since July but, we have not gone back to do them retroactively for past advancements.

[Oak Tree]

I would treat the previous Scoutmaster's verbal statements as equal to his written records. In both cases he stated, either verbally or written, that the requirements were complete, and he informed the Scouts of such. I am a big believer in your statement that we should not make the boys suffer for the mistakes of an adult.

 

I appreciate your dilemma, but I'd advise making changes going forward, and not trying to go back to any extent at all. Retroactively annulling the previous Scoutmaster's statements is certainly going to cause discouragement, and could be worse than that. And I assure you that we are *not* in a highly regulated environment here in the BSA. With Scout camps regularly handing out unearned merit badges, it's not like your former Scoutmaster was all alone.

[hotdesk]

The forms that must be filed for rank advancement with Boy Scouts requires signatures of a few committee members verifing that the Scout past his Board of Review.

 

What did your past Scoutmaster do in this regard?

[Joe MacDoaks]

We enter all of our advancement and merit badge information on the internet. The only rank advancement forms we turn in are for Eagle scout. All merit badge information is entered on the internet also.

[evmori]

I would put the responsibility on the former SM to get this info to you. And it seems there are still requirements that have not been met as of yet - SM conference & BoR. Until these are all completed, the Scouts haven't earned the rank.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Ohio_Scouter]

I agree with Oak Tree. I think you will do serious damage by anulling the previous SM's agreements (a Scouter is trustworthy). If my boy was required to redo his rank requirements, I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to quit Scouts altogether as a result; and I wouldn't blame him a bit.

[Eamonn]

The outgoing SM has said that some requirements were not met.

You now know that they were not met.

Seems to me that the outgoing SM is now gone and is never coming back!

I think I'd forget about holding a COH, till after I'd met with each and every Scout (Scoutmaster Conference).

Working along the lines that a Scout is Trustworthy, ask them what requirements need to be covered.

Then I'd meet with the Committee, explain how advancement is supposed to work. The committee has also been guilty of not doing their job!!

Arrange correct and proper BOR's for all that need one.

Make it known that from now on the Troop is doing all this stuff by the book and you are the new broom.

Good Luck.

Ea.

[Hunt]

My advice depends on whether these ranks have already been entered on the internet or not. If they haven't, I would suggest holding a Scoutmaster Conference and Board of Review on a fast track before entering them. Tell the boys that in this case, it's just a formality, but you want to do everything properly to set a good example for the younger boys. If the ranks have already been entered, I would suggest holding a non-rank Scoutmaster Conference and Board of Review for these boys. At the Conference and Board, talk with them about the new direction for the troop, including the need to follow the book for advancement in the future.

[ASM857]

I would talk to the scouts, if they state they have completed the rank & merit badge in question go ahead. A scout is trustworth, at your next PLC advise all Scouts that all requirments will need to be met. Then at your next committee set up your BOR members. I would not hold these 2 scouts feet to the fire for an act they were not responsable for.

 

YIS

Doug Buth

[allangr1024]

I agree with the "set the procedures right going forward" line of the other contributers here. I would suggest writting a policy or proceedure statement and handing it out to everyone, saying "This is how we do things for now on."

 

In our troop we have a computer program to keep records. In the past that was all we used. Now, we are urgeing the scouts to get their books signed and keep records for themselves. Blue merit badge cards? We now use them. We found so many instances where the computer records were not updated in a timely manner, or were just wrong, that we gave out the same rank patch to two boys in two courts of honor. bad bad b a d.

 

I would ask advice from both the troop committee and the district advancement chair or district executive on the past awards. This could go either way, and to have the opinion of the others will help a lot.

 

AND, be in constant communication with the boys over issue. You don't want them to become adverserial. Ask them if they mind reviewing the records and the requirements for the awards. They may not mind, especially if you state that your purpose it to see that there is no question about the earning of the awards.

 

 

[Gunny2862]

Ethically, you break the troop and fix all of the erroneous records, revoke ranks and Eagles. Will you receive death threats if you pursue this track, possibly. Would any of us actually say this this is the track you should take, Well I won't. Beside you probably don't have any viable records to prove the accusations with.

 

The practical track is to fix things from now forward, I would include to the suggestions given above a heart to heart orientation with the troop about how advancement should work(with appropriate BSA citation) and how it's going to work in the future so the boys aren't surprised by any "new" hoops they haven't had to jump thru before. The same presentation should be given to the committee and parents as an education and training seminar rather than a you've been doing it wrong presentation.

 

Use your judgment about whether it is a good idea to go ahead and out the outgoing SM regarding his malfeasance of the process by revisiting his last promotions/Merit badges. I'd probably not do that - no win for anyone.

 

I would not feel good about it but would let this go as an in-process event that was on his watch - however I would also have the outgoing SM either enter it (if he thinks they really earned it)or fix it properly himself. He saves face and you save your self respect knowing that it will be done correctly during your tenure.

[FScouter]

I like Eamonns approach. If the court of honor is still pending it would not be inappropriate to review all the advancements and merit badges since the last one.

 

I would suggest writting a policy or proceedure statement and handing it out to everyone, saying This is how we do things for now on.

 

The policy is already found in each boys Handbook, and a simple All of the requirements found in your Handbook need to be completed before you can advance to the next rank should suffice. Same for the troop committee; the policies are already found in the Advancement book.

[John-in-KC]

Gunny,

 

The other Joe is between a rock and a hard place, particularly on ranks submitted to Council. I don't have my copy at hand, but Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures is quite plain: Once awarded, rank is ir-revocable.

 

Joe, reading of the posts here, I think Eamonn has given you the best course of action. Postpone the COH. Get the SM Conferences and BORs done. Tell the Committee, in no uncertain terms, that the advancement plan works, and you intend to follow it.

 

BTW, BSA internet advancement iirc requires hardcopy, with signatures, follow-up, and you, as the SM, are the signer of record!

 

I would, urgently, ask your DE or the Council Registrar for an advancement status report. ScoutNet can generate it. I'd audit the records closely to make sure the youth have what they are supposed to!

 

You've been given a can of worms, the next few weeks will be trying on your patience. Good luck.

[Gold Winger]

" I am a big believer in your statement that we should not make the boys suffer for the mistakes of an adult."

 

It's not a mistake, it is malfesence. That SM was doing no one a favor by not following the rules.

 

Someone needs to put their foot down and straighten things out and it needs to happen sooner than later.

 

[Gold Winger]

Also, what the heck is the SM doing with advancement? Final say on advancement is a committee function. Record keeping is also a committee function.