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Eamonn

Eagle Scout coordinator?

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Nailbone, welcome to the forums! I agree with you - it doesn't have to be that way and isn't anywhere around these parts.

 

Scoutldr, just a note: as I remember, during at least part of the 1960s, a project wasn't required for Eagle. As a matter of fact, it wasn't required for mine.

 

I think evmori may be correct in his criticism IF the mentor or coordinator (whatever) DOES micromanage the process. In the case of this unit, I accepted the responsibility to PREVENT any adult from micromanaging what the boy does. I have seen some very sad situations in the past when a leader thought he knew better some aspect of the boy's project and basically took over - leaving the boy watching resentfully from a corner that was not of his choosing. As long as I have this duty I will prevent that from EVER happening.

 

For that matter Ed's criticism could just as well be applied to every adult leadership position there is, and for every other rank and merit badge. It is only a fair criticism if applied just as broadly.

 

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scoutldr,

 

I was also a program member in the 60s and 70s. LFL now.

 

One of the things I enjoy about the program as it's been worked in the intervening 40 years is the steady ramp towards Eagle. A kid entering BSA now, when he hits Star, is well on the trail. Depending on how he does his Eagle MBs, most youth are over the top and on the backslope to Eagle from the MB perspective when they hit Life.

 

That's a far cry from our day, when it was 1 Eagle Required to Star, and 4 to Life. It was still uphill to the summit.

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The Eagle Project became a requirement in 1965.

 

The mentors pin is not a badge of office or semi-office it is a presentation gift from the Eagle Scout to someone in his life who has been an inspiration. It was not designed for the Life to Eagle counselor.

 

Eamonn,

The role of the Eagle counselor, at least as explained in our councils WEagle packet, is to have someone i the unit who is thoroghly knowledgeable in the process to act as a resource for the scout in completeing his paperwork and preparing for the board and court.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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"There is an appeal process and some other things that are being done, and I have no doubt that he will be awarded the rank of Eagle, but if we can prevent this from happening to others, it'll be worth the effort. "

 

OK, the problem is a board that improperly denies advancement, forcing an appeal with the result of being overturned. What is the best fix for that problem? Assign a coordinator to help the Scout navigate the improper hurdles placed by the board? Or insist that the board to behave themselves?

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"What is the best fix for that problem?"

If the board decision was overturned on appeal, there's technically no problem. They boy was correctly awarded the rank.

Now if you are interested in educating the board, this is an opportunity to do so.

Kind of like counseling one of the boys....

Some rhetorical questions might be appropriate, for example:

Why do you think your decision was overturned on appeal?

Do you think it is possible that you made some mistakes?

What do you think they were?

What do you think you need to do to correct this situation?

First they must recognize there is a problem and be willing to admit mistakes. Then they are ready to correct the situation. Some training might help.

 

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Eamonn,

The role of the Eagle counselor, at least as explained in our councils WEagle packet, is to have someone i the unit who is thoroghly knowledgeable in the process to act as a resource for the scout in completeing his paperwork and preparing for the board and court.

 

Shouldn't this be the Scoutmaster?

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Ed,

 

Do you know how many Scoutmasters are generalists and who don't emphasize dotting i's and crossing t's?

 

Regardless of how some folk here may feel, the process of getting an ELSP approved and of getting an Eagle app suitable for Council done seem to require an attention to detail kind of guy/gal to shepherd the youth.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

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Shepherding? Menoring? What ever happened to the idea that if the boy wanted some help he'd ask for it. Little too much for me to see adult involvement to the shepherding level in the project as an idicator that the project belongs solely to the boy as per the requirement. No adult, when asked, should not assist to the extent of the boy's directive. But to have an adult connected to the boy in any fashion other than the boy's discression is interfering in the leadership process of the boy as he does his project. My interpretation of the requirement, which everyone seems to be so fond of on the forum, indicates Organizational, SM and committee approval. To me that means a signature, not critique, suggestion, or involvement on the part of any adults.

 

Stosh

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Eamonn, The role of the Eagle counselor, at least as explained in our councils WEagle packet, is to have someone i the unit who is thoroghly knowledgeable in the process to act as a resource for the scout in completeing his paperwork and preparing for the board and court.

Shouldn't this be the Scoutmaster?

It might be. I'm happy to answer their questions. As long as they are able to wait as I do all the other things that a SM does. Or the 14 Life Scouts can go over to my ESC (a competent ASM in his own right) where they can get their questions answered by someone who is not distracted by other demands on his time. I don't consider the ESC a mentoring position. But the ESC is a resource that the scout can go to to get his questions answered, run ideas by and check his work. Some scouts make use of the ESC, others don't. In general they will encounter less frustration if they use him.

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I'm in jblake47's camp! If help is needed, the Scout should ask for it! When I was a SM, that is exactly what I told my Scouts. And dang it, they asked if they needed help!

 

I think we forget it is the boy who are advancing, not the adults!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

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packsaddle,

 

I guess I'm disagreeing with those who feel a Eagle Coordinator is necessary!

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Ed, if the SM is snowed under with duties, he is allowed to delegate some of them to the ASM, right? It's little more than a division of labor.

Or does the bank president do EVERYTHING in your bank?

Better yet, does your wife do EVERYTHING around the house? (you don't have to answer that ;))

 

For example, if the SM can't attend summer camp the ASM can fill that need, right?

What is the difference between delegating one type of responsibility as opposed to another, if the SM needs the help?

What difference does it make if the boy asks the SM compared to asking someone else to whom those duties were delegated?

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There are really two topics here. One is his project and the other is his Eagle application paperwork. Our District provides a Project Advisor to help the candidate through his project. Our Adv. Chair or I (SM) assign that person after project approval. At that point, we also assign an adult from the committee as an advisor to assist with the Eagle application side of this (usually a past Eagle Dad thats been through the rigors of the process before). Now, neither this adult nor anyone else is going to chase this kid down, but will probe with inquiries every now and then to see how things are going (as will many of our leaders and parents). Its amazing how much can come from this light hearted jabbing (not nagging) and gets the kid going again he sees others do care about his status. I keep telling them the old adage your procrastination doesnt make it my emergency.

 

Its so easy to pontificate that they need to ask for help first. Unfortunately when they DO ask for help, many times its been at the 11th hour and I or the CC must drop everything else to guide him through his questions, and deal with all the spin-off phone calls and emails that now have to involve other people, looking for resolutions to issues that didn't need to happen to begin with. Some us of do have non-scouting commitments in our lives as well! Are you ready to face the kid and tell him he isnt going to get his Eagle because of a misunderstanding over what he thought he was to do and was supposed to do otherwise? Or because one of us was out of town or had commitments and couldnt do something for him on short notice? No thanks, thats not a life lesson I want any part of. Sometimes on these there's no second chances for them to learn from their mistakes. One time of having an application be rejected once or twice for date inconsistencies or other human errors can really wear on a youth and his family about having long term attitudes about BSA (not to mention unnecessarily taking the valuable time we leaders may not have). Apparently some of you forget all of the other things we as SM need to make sure were doing; Talk about a great way to burn out your CC or SM...

 

I compare it to taxes if you want to take a chance on your own, feel free to. But if we want to increase our chances that it will go through the first time, get with this adult and hell proof it. It gives another opportunity for youth-adult relationship, it saves a lot of anxiety on a kid and family in scenarios such as getting ready to head off to college or holiday COHs. It just makes everything go much easier and there are no reasons we should permit it to unnecessarily go the wrong way. Man, I get blasted on this forum for allegedly putting up barriers to kids on advancement. Im very surprised to read some of the attitudes concerning the Eagle process from those very same people.

 

I was a 1980 Eagle, and refuse to accept that my application and project received nearly the same scrutiny from our District/Council/National that these do today. My and numerous others of my fellows project proposals most probably wouldve been rejected today. The application is so much complicated as well. Anyone that doesnt see that is really looking through some serious rose coloreds.

(This message has been edited by ursus snorous roarus)

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