Eagle Projects..what is acceptable and what is not.

[Eagle1984]

I would like to put out the proverbial feelers and get you take on what would constitute an acceptable project for the Rank of Eagle and what would nott be acceptable.

 

There is a scout from a troop in my district that wants to do a blood drive for his eagle project. He called for verbal approval and he was informed that we(the district advancement committee) don't think that doing this type of project exhibits leadership at all for an acceptable project. Even his Eagle advisor along with his father think it is a good idea and even faxed me a sheet from the American Red Cross showing guidelines on how to set up a successful blood drive for an Eagle project. I even called council and was told that the council advancement committee stands firm and doesn't think it exhibits leadership either. The Eagle even went as far as saying that council needs to start a list of acceptable/unacceptable projects for the rank of Eagle.

 

Your thoughts ??

[gwd-scouter]

Interesting question. I wasn't aware that Council had any say in what was an acceptable Eagle project, but I'm sure there are others on this forum more intelligent than I on that subject.

 

I am a new SM and have for the past two years had to give unit approval for 4 Eagle projects so far. Two were very straight forward construction/conservation type projects and were very easy to see the leadership qualities involved. But the last two were beyond my abilities. I had to go to the District Advancement Chair and ask for guidance.

 

One, completed last summer, involved collecting and organizing medical supplies for a mission trip. The second, still ongoing, is making an historic record, both written and photographed, of our town while our local museum and historic district is undergoing major renovations, cultimating in the making of frames and mountings for the photos to hang in the museum.

 

With such limited experience, I just couldn't personally see how these could be Eagle projects. But, I casually discussed them during a roundtable with our District Advancement Chair. He said, have them write it up, come to me to talk about it, and as long as they will show leadership in the development of the project, gathering volunteers to help, and carrying out said project, then it's a go. I was reminded by the Advancement Chair - the Eagle project is less about the work that is done and more about the leadership shown by the Eagle candidate.

 

I have read on forums such as this and other places about Scouts doing a blood drive and similar things - toy drive, clothing drive, food drive - as Eagle projects and am anxious to read what others post.

 

[local1400]

I assume that the Red Cross is involved and they sell the blood for profit. Check the book BOY SCOUT REQUIREMENTS 2006. On page 20 under SELECTING LEADERSHIP SERVICE PROJECTS and under EAGLE RANK it says " Eagle Scout service projects involving council property or other BSA activities are NOT acceptable for an Eagle service project. The service project also may NOT be performed for a business, be of a commercial nature, or be a fund-raiser." On page 21 it says "The Scout must submit his proposal project plan and secure the prior approval of his unit leader, unit committe, and district or council advancement committe, and the organization benefitting from the effort, to make sure that it meets the stated standards for Eagle Scout service projects BEFORE the project is started. This preapproval of the project does not mean that the board of review will accept the way the project was carried out." Straight from the book my friends.

[gwd-scouter]

OK. I may be showing my ignorance here, but where does is the requirement that the Eagle BOR approves the completion of the project? I just had a session with a current Eagle candidate and signed off on the completion of his project. There is no where else that someone from the District Advancement has to sign-off that it has been completed.

 

Now, I know that during an Eagle BOR a lot of questions may have to do with the candidates project. But I can't find any evidence that the BOR has to be satisfied as to the how that project was completed.

 

I bring this up specifically because of the Eagle candidate I just mentioned. He has completed his project, his POR and his "active for 6 months" requirements. But, he has to still finish five Eagle required merit badges. It could be over a year before he does that (or more). Is he going to find out in a year or so that some future BOR is not going to be satisfied about how he completed his project?

 

 

 

[EagleInKY]

GWD - The Eagle board doesn't approve the project. In fact, they don't approve the rank advancement either (unlike all the other ranks). They provide the district's approval to the application. At the end of the BOR, the scout is an Eagle Candidate, who still must be approved by national.

 

As for the blood drive questions, blood drives are allowed, but are generally considered weak project ideas. Consequently, some districts and councils won't approve them, unless there is something "above and beyond" that the scout is planning on doing along with it. Your district advancement chairman does have to approve the ELSP, so you must follow their requirements. If the scout can't convince them that the project is worthy, then he'll have to come up with something else.

[local1400]

gwd- I was only quoting from the book. I am not sure about the project acceptance or denial. Has any one ever encountered this situation before? I must defer to someone else like OGE, emb21, John in KC, guys?

[OldGreyEagle]

The concept of the Eagle Leadership project is that it is to be a service project of lasting import to the community, such as the ecological projects that GWD described. I am not sure how a single Blood Drive is of lasting importance to the community, but there are other issues.

 

Technically speaking the Red Cross does not sell blood, it makes blood available to hospitals and other facilities that need it and only charges "processing" fees. I know, I know, it sounds like doublespeak of the highest order, but then keep in mind my day job is a Medicare Compliance Consultant and whether a hospital buys its blood from a proprietary blood bank or gets it from a volunteer system such as the Red Cross makes a huge difference on how you report it's use to Medicare, beleive me, if it sounds hard to accept to you try explaining to the CFO that gets invoices from Red Cross on the 1,000 units of blood they received last month that they didnt buy it, but are merely paying "processing" fees. (BTW, since Medicare rules are brought to you by the same people who author the IRS tax code, you can see the fun I have every day) SO actually doing a projet for the Red Cross would be ok, but I dont think a blood drive would work.

 

Again, an Eagle Project's emphasis is on leadership, no Blood Bank is going to allow a youth to organize a blood drive, assembling the team of nurses and technicians trained to do the testing and care for the blood and do the venipunctures. You call the blood bank, schedule the date and then lay back. The appropriately trained credentialed and certified personnel show up on the date scheduled. On the date of the drive maybe you have some scouts show up to run the cookie and juice table, but thats about it. The employees of the blood bank have federal procedures (not guidelines) they must follow. The whole of a blood drive is pretty much already planned out. There is no patient traffic flow to determine, the type and cross match is standard, the only thing left is to have the scout say is coke? or orange juice? Maybe the scouts can help set up and take down the equipment, but again, thats done according to the time tested plan already used by the Blood Bank.

 

Now, I will say this, in the District we "discourage" scouts from doing a blood drive as an "Eagle Project" based on what I have said so far, but we do not give verbal approvals. We have the scout write the project up and give him an opportunity to present it to the Advancement Committee (or not) the presentaion allows us to talk to the scout and he many times can explain what he wants to do and amplify areas that need further explanation. If more information is required, then we have the scout in front of us writing down what needs to be answered. Scouts can turn in the approval form and not be present and if we have questions, the chair brings those back to the scout and then we get his answers, the presentation is faster but I digress.

 

I said we discourage it, but if a scout could write up a Blood Drive and show Eagle Leadership Project opportunity then we would consider it, but he would have to do much more than hang a few posters for publicity, calling the blood bank, and getting a few kids to push cookies. I guess its possible, but I would have to be wowed by his write up

[local1400]

Now see, I knew OGE would have it. "Processing Fees?" now that has me wondering. But I suppose if the IRS is writing the rules, well then... I better be careful before I disappear...Who's knocking at the door this late at night

[Ms. Eagle 515]

Funny, we just had this conversation at Roundtable last night.

 

I've seen this project done in my District and Council and it's usually done by boys pushing 18 as a quick project because there is not a lot of leg work involved with it. Actually I've heard a DE say that blood drives and food drives are frowned upon as Eagle projects and that boys should think of bigger things, his words not mine, "newsworthy items". "A food drive would be acceptable if the boy filled an 18 wheeler" but realistically, is that going to happen? Guess it would depend on the boy.

 

Besides the leg work aspect, the other arguements is results are not "guaranteed". If a boy writes up an eagle project to repaint a play ground, you know the play ground is going to get repainted whether it happens in one day, two days, etc. A blood drive depends on the response of the community. If you pick a rainy day, and have a poor turn out, hey you still went on as planned, it wasn't your fault that the weather didn't cooperate right?

 

This one can probably be argued for quiet some time, but ultimatly it's got to go through all the approvals before it can begin, so I guess it lies in those powers that be.

[Crew21_Adv]

Eagle1984 and Fellow Scouters,

 

 

I would concur with OGE. That Red Cross does not sell blood to hospitals. Here is from the Red Cross FAQ's

 

Why does the Red Cross sell blood and blood products that are given freely by donors?

The American Red Cross is a nonprofit organization that supplies almost half of the nation's blood supply by working with more than 4 million donors and 3,000 hospitals. We rely on the generous gifts volunteer blood donors provide us. In order for the Red Cross to make that gift available to patients in need, we must collect, store, test and process the blood. There are significant costs associated with each of these processes, and in order for us to continue making one person's donation available to someone else who needs it, we must charge for the testing and processing of the blood to recoup these costs.

 

 

However, there are commercial blood banks and blood wagons that do sell for profit. Their agendas are good as well, however some other blood banks (outside the Red Cross and Military blood bank) are usually a profitable businesses.

 

Regarding District/Council Approval, I only see the approval given to the service project plan, but not to the project completion. Completion is determined by the Scout, unit leader and benefactor.

 

My own thoughts...

 

I love the above and beyond service projects, they are fantastic. The Eagle Scout, the Troop and the community should remember for years. But I am also happy with meeting the minimum.

 

All I personally find close to a minimum in the application is "demonstrate leadership to others" also "demonstrate your leadership of two or more individuals in planning and carrying out your project" So my own interpretation is at least 2 youth.

 

Regarding the amount of time all I see is this "...the number of hours they worked each day, and the total length of time others assisted on the project." Which leads me to my own interpretation of at least 2 hours, or more than one.

 

Call me easy... Maybe that's why I haven't been asked to assume District Advancement... lol

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Local1400, I didnt say that the IRS authored Medicare guidlines, I said the people who author the IRS tax code are the same ones who author Medicare guidelines (anybody here on Medicare D?) The same people being the dear old Feds, whatever branch they serve, then again, everybody join me in the chrous:

 

Who can it be knocking at my door?

Go 'way, don't come 'round here no more.

Can't you see that it's late at night?

I'm very tired, and I'm not feeling right.

All I wish is to be alone;

Stay away, don't you invade my home.

Best off if you hang outside,

Don't come in - I'll only run and hide.

 

CHORUS:

Who can it be now?

Who can it be now?

Who can it be now?

Who can it be now?

 

Who can it be knocking at my door?

Make no sound, tip-toe across the floor.

If he hears, he'll knock all day,

I'll be trapped, and here I'll have to stay.

I've done no harm, I keep to myself;

There's nothing wrong with my state of mental health.

I like it here with my childhood friend;

Here they come, those feelings again!

 

CHORUS

 

Is it the man come to take me away?

Why do they follow me?

It's not the future that I can see,

It's just my fantasy

 

Oh...Who can it be now?

Oh...Who can it...Who can it...

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Before I go totally off on a tangent, I do need to return to the question at hand. I have posted my thoughts on a Blod Drive, but at the same time I have to emphasize if a scout came and had in his write up how he was going to show leadership and how it would be of lasting importance to the community, I could change. Frequently a scout will ask me what I think of a particular idea for an Eagle project, and I say sounds good, what about X? And then rather quickly I see I am being drilled for the info I will soon be reading on a project approval form. My conditioned response now is, "It depends on how its written up", that's become the District Advancement COmmittees mantra, similar to the Scoutmaster who says, I dont know, ask your patrol leader.

 

SO there are any number of projects that maybe "good enough" for an Eagle project or not, depending on the written treatment.

[John-in-KC]

Agree with all that the District and Council Advancement Committees have, by National Council Policy, to approve an Eagle Leadership Service Project before it goes forward.

 

Does a blood drive pass muster? Depends on what the local Council Advancement Committee tells the districts it's willing to accept. I'd advise Eagle1984 to sit down with the District Advancement or Council Advancement Chairman or the professional staff member responsible for advancement and have a quiet talk.

 

As to EagleinKY's comment, Irving is turning around Eagle Packages in less than a week. There's no approval down there; they're receiving the app, processing the paperwork, and pushing a business certificate sized envelope out the door. The EBOR, from my recent experience, is the final check and balance for most youth. The ones for whom it's not the final are:

- Those who are entering an appeal process because they were rejected by the EBOR

- Those who need an extension to obtain an EBOR after their 18th birthday.

 

Again, my observations.

[ScoutNut]

OGE - Can you please site a BSA source that states that -

 

"The concept of the Eagle Leadership project is that it is to be a service project of lasting import to the community"

 

I can not find that requirement anywhere.

 

What I did find in the Project Workbook is -

 

"How big a project is required? There are no specific requirements, as long as the project is helpful to a religious institution, school, or community. The amount of time spent by you in planning your project and the actual working time spent in carrying out the project should be as much as is necessary for you to demonstrate your leadership of others."

 

"Helpful" is a far cry from "lasting import to the community".

 

GWD - on your question about the Eagle BOR, also from the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook -

 

"Although your project was approved by your unit leader, unit committee, and council or district advancement committee before it was begun, the Eagle Scout board of review must approve the manner in which it was carried out."

 

So, yes, it is possible that, in a year, his EBOR might not approve how the project was completed. Not LIKELY mind you, but possible.

 

[CA_Scouter]

Question... can an Eagle project be done for your sponsoring organization? We are sponsered by the local firefighters association, could an Eagle candidate do a project for the firehouse itself?