Eagle Requirements

[donert]

I have a Scout who has started his Eagle Service Project. Our Council Eagle BOR requires a church recomendation. This Scout does not go to church and as far as I know he is not a member of any church . On the recomendation it states: a Scout must show that he has actually put into service the Ideals and Principals of the Scout Oath (Duty to God) and Scout Law.

What is going to happen?

[packsaddle]

I have never heard of this before, I guess it's tough luck for him. Church is now a requirement for Eagle.

[TheScout]

Its not tough luck if he did not do his Duty to God. It is one of the requirments.

[gwd-scouter]

Realizing this will probably open a big debate, why can't a scout show his duty to God without being a member of an organized church or religion? The Scout Oath says Duty to God, it does not say Duty to Church or Duty to (insert brand of religion here).

 

And, while we're on the subject, I've always wanted to ask if anyone puts as much emphasis on the "and My Country" part of the Oath. How do you verify that a Scout has done his duty to his Country? What is the measurable criteria for a teenager to do his duty to his country?(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[OldGreyEagle]

May I submit that doing his duty to God and being a member of a Church are two different issue?

 

In the council where I live parents may become the religious "reccomendation" and state that the scout lives his life according to the family beliefs.

[evmori]

I was gonna say the same thing OGE! And I still will.

 

Duty to God doesn't require going to church. And your council Eagle BOR can't require any member of the BSA to be a church member or get church recommendation for their Eagle project. What if the project is for the VFW? Why would a church even care?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[madmike]

Are they refering to requirement #2 on the Eagle Application? Where you have to get recommendations from a religous affiliated person?

 

I would imagine that even without going to church regularly at some point in the scouts life he has crossed paths with someone who fits that criteria.

 

I am not active in a church at the moment, but that doesnt have anything to do with my religous belief.

[scoutingagain]

I have to agree with Mad Mike and others. The DRP allows the scout and his family to define God and how they choose to be reverent to him. If his application was denied by a Council because he didn't attend an established Church, it would very likely be overturned at the National level. He will need to show how he is reverent though in his own way.

 

I was told our Council attempted to deny a candidate the rank of Eagle based on his conviction for dealing illegal drugs just a few months before his BOR as evidence of not living up to the Scout Law in his daily life. He appealed and was eventually awarded the rank of Eagle.

 

I find it hard to believe National would deny the Eagle rank to a candidate who would state he believed in God, worshiped Him in his own way, and had someone who was familiar with the candidate's spiritual side and recommended him, even if the candidate was not a member of an organized church and did not attend services.

 

If not there are many denominations that will be happy to ordain an individual as a minister over the internet.

 

SA

 

 

[packsaddle]

OK usetobeafox, some clarification is needed. Does the council actually require a CHURCH recommendation or this merely the way YOU interpret the requirement on the application?

 

My original response was to the original post in which you said the council has implemented a policy of requiring a CHURCH recommendation, which is a new way of doing this IMHO.

 

If this is merely the way you have interpreted it, then the other responses are correct, a parent or any other individual that the boy considers as a religious advisor can be listed as the reference.

 

gwd-scouter, you make a good point. If equal importance was given to the 'country' part it would be interesting to learn the metric that is used to measure success. That's assuming, of course, that equal importance is given. I could be wrong. Often am.

 

[Trevorum]

gwd brings up one of my favorite issues! What exactly is a teenagers "Duty to Country"?

 

In my SM conferences for Star, Life and Eagle, I like to ask the candidate how he fulfills his duty to God and then, separately, how he fulfills his duty to his country. I have always accepted just about any response for duty to God, because this varies so tremendously between faiths and from family to family. Some fellows regularly attend religious ceremonies, others don't. Some pray, some meditate, some do good works.

 

But sometimes a candidate gets stumped when I ask him about his duty to his country. Often fellows will start to talk about serving in the military or voting or sitting on juries and such. I'll then ask them if THEY have done any of those things as part of THEIR duty. This prompts them to think about what it is that they actually do that is part of their duty to their country. Most fellows will recognize that obeying the law is something they do, even stuff like not smoking and not jaywalking. And then I try to guide them to think about their duty to PREPARE themselves, now, while they are still teenagers, to be responsible citizens later when they become adults. Ah-hah! It turns out that going to school and LEARNING about his country, its history and form of government are key elements of a teenagers duty to his country. Who is his Congressman? His Senators? Who is the Chief Justice? Usually a candidate for Star does not know these things. However, I find that by the time he comes back for a SM conference for Life and Eagle, he'll know a lot more.

[EagleInKY]

I know our district/council asks for a letter along these lines. But they don't have to come from a church leader. I've heard of them coming from others in the community that can speak to the lad's commitment to charity, love of his fellow man, dedication to nature, etc. "Duty to God", in the scouting sense, does not require specific church membership.

[Beavah]

"Duty to God", in the scouting sense, does not require specific church membership.

 

Yah, dat's true.

 

I think usetobeafox should relax a bit. Sounds like his council is just followin' the guidelines, which state that "if a boy says he is a member of a religious body the standards by which he should be evaluated are those of that group. This is why the application for the Eagle Scout Award requests a reference from his religious leader to indicate whether he has lived up to their expectations." (ACP&P #33088D p. 45).

 

So, yah, if a boy is a member of an organized religion, the reference should be from his pastor, rabbi, imam or some other religious leader of his own faith, eh? A Scout is Loyal to his faith community.

 

If a boy isn't a member of an organized religion, then the reference should be someone familiar with his spiritual life, eh? I hate seein' parent religious references, but that's just me. I think they're far more valuable when they're from a peer, or a service agency the boy has done good works for, or somethin' like that.

 

Foxy, yeh just need to tell him to get a reference from a friend who knows him in terms of how he envisions "duty to God." If he wants, he can even include his vision of "duty to God" in his statement of goals and values. His Eagle Board of Review will be fine with that, and will appreciate the opportunity to have a good and friendly discussion with him.