DLChris71

Thanks for the info. Found the following links.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/The_Training_Times_Fall_2011.pdf

"Awards and Knots

The national councils awards committee recently conducted a review of the hundreds of awards presented to Scouts and adults in the BSA. Many recommendations were made to simplify and update procedures, and the awards themselves.

Among the recommendations was the update of some awards and/or the knots that represent them on the uniform. These include the training awards and the Cub Scouting awards.

For example, to give the award the same recognition as the other top unit leader awards, the Cubmaster Award will become the Cubmasters Key and use the Scouters Key knot. The Cub Scouter and Pack Trainer Awards will use the Scouters Training Award knot. The Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Den Leaders Awards will use the Den Leaders Award knot. Devices to be worn on the knots will be available to indicate which awards, and for which program awards were earned.

Scouters who have earned the awards will still be able to wear the old knots as long as they are available.

The training team is currently reviewing and updating the requirements for the awards. So watch here for news, but we expect the details in early 2012."

http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx

Latest version of Training Times

http://scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/The_Training_Times_Winter_2012.pdf

The most recent version at the time of this posting:

"Guide to Leader Training

As you are probably aware, the Leadership Training Committee

Guide has been unavailable for a while. With some of the

changes in training, awards, and the Journey to Excellence we

have been working on a complete rewrite of the manual.

The new Guide to Leader Training will outline basic council and

district responsibilities for leader training. Since things are

updated and evolve as the needs of youth, leaders, and

Scouting change, we did not want to make the guide a tool that

will be out of date almost as fast as it is printed. It will not

contain the forms and other materials that are more easily

available, and more current, via the training pages of official

BSA web sites. The training page of Scouting.org will list the

current resources.

The new Guide is in final editing and on its way to printing.

Watch for it soon here and in your local council."

So the only thing they had planned for lunch was hot dogs and buns? No chips, fruit, vegetables? And the SM didn't let the scouts have fries because he didn't want to get more potatoes. Well that sounds like mashed turnips all around.

I guess I might make someone upset, but I've had pretty good luck with the Ozark Trail tents sold at Wal-Mart. I admit the one that I got was not without flaws ($29.97 4-man tent 9x7 footprint with rain fly) but it has held up fairly well. At least enough that I'd consider checking out some of their 2-man tents.

I've heard several references to the change away from the three den leader knots to one, but does anyone have a good url for that change and when it will be coming? I do like the idea of the device on the knot award instead of the three separate knots.

Well Happy St. Georges Day...

But I think BP would have been better having Saint Christopher as the patron saint of scouting...seeing as he forded a river and performed one of the worlds oldest water rescues

I don't know exactly how the site registers a hit but I use beascout to keep tabs on what's going on with the troops and packs in our area. Especially if one of them goes through the trouble of setting up a new website. I've used it to check which nights they meet, though I often have to do a separate search for their CO to find out when they are on the facility schedule.

If individual units are able to update their own info on the site I think they would be better served by making that info as complete as possible.

I've also used the site to check back into my old areas that I lived in. On the off chance that I come into some money and want to leave an endowment to my old units.

Our CO has some pretty nice class rooms with carpet on them. I'm very much against snacks and we didn't even mention it until the day light savings started again and we were going to be mostly outside. We had one scout bring in a yoo hoo. Half of it he drank and the other half went on the floor. As a courtesy to the CO then I'm against it.

You know...to tell the truth this is why I quit scouting as a kid. Everyone cheating.

Now I was encouraged to pursue the Den Leader Knot, and I am. My CC and CM both said I should be awarded the knot in September, even though I didn't start until November. So I have no intention of turning in my paperwork on it until December 2012, and only if the requirements are met.

The purpose of the Den Leader Awards is to encourage den leaders to meet a minimum standard of training and performance, not to impress other scouters, but to encourage them to do the right thing. If the system of a Pack is to award these knots for simply being a warm body that shows up for Den meetings then it's a failure.

On another note I took all the required training and bought the trained tab myself, because I met the requirements to be trained and didn't feel like having to take weeks for someone to rubber stamp it and make my uniform complete. So that is if I earn it I want it.

I'm going to BALOO, IOLS, and eventually WB. Even if I do that still doesn't qualify me for the Den Leader Knot, because it depends on being good to the boys in my den and keeping them interested in a good program also.

So I'm sorry to hear that you are saddled with a bunch of slackers. I wouldn't sign off on it.

Once I stepped out of the car and personally talked to the MBC it became my business. At the very least I would talk to my son about the situation and ask him if he really felt it would be honorable to accept this award without the conditions being met. Then I personally would contact the council, DE, CC, and Scoutmaster about the situation.

Ignorance would have been bliss, and I bet that other parents might be completely oblivious to this. But as are an Eagle Scout the ethical dilemma is very apparent and it is important to scouting everywhere to take a stand.

We're not talking about some simple thing here that a person should just sit on. We're talking about something that rightly anyone with an ounce of integrity should be angered about and stirred to take action to correct. So this is not the case of some helicopter parent over reacting and whining.

Our Guide to Safe Scouting, a book of "thou shall nots" dictates that every tiger or cub scout (ages 6-9) shall be accompanied by a parent or guardian on outings. I believe that's it. Den Meetings 6 year olds must be accompanied by a parent. Cub Scouts don't necessarily have to have a parent present. The reason could be legal liability, enough supervision, etc.

Even at our seasonal council camps we are required to maintain a 2 scout to 1 adult ratio, while also maintaining two deep leadership.

When I was a kid growing up us 6-9 year olds spent most of our time trying to get away from mom and dad. I suppose that if it were up to the kids today they would be the same. At some point the sensationalism of kids being kidnapped, abused, and murdered changed us a society where now we have to keep an eye on our children in order to be good parents.

According to this .pdf (http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/documents/FAQ.pdf) there are on average 800,000 missing children in the USA, with nearly 2,000 missing children reports every day. The recovery rate is about 62%. So parents get scared by that. Of course looking further into the statistics, the majority of abductions are committed by family members and ex-spouses, and the majority of disappearances are attributed to runaways.

But that gets lost in translation a lot and so everyone is afraid that their kid will be abducted by some stranger out in the woods or on the street.

Me I'm more concerned about coyotes, but my sons know how to deal with them.

I had a son in one of those no score no keeper leagues...the kids even at 3 or 4, are not clueless. They know when they are winning or losing. At least when you keep score you can gauge improvement. Somehow in most youth leagues, and in some real sports league there is always one team that is endowed with a few talented kids that do throttle everyone else 20-1. The question is can you improve as a team to keep it down to 8-1 in the next meeting.

Winning takes effort, the absence of winning is impossible.

The reasons why you shop around vs. sticking to a linear progression are part of our culture and economics. My wife goes to work at a location over 10 miles from home, I go to school over 10 miles from home, my sons currently go to school 2 miles from our home but by the time they are in scouts they will be again going to school 10 miles from our home. And none of those locations is in the same direction and are at least 10 miles apart. So if we had to go to each of those locations twice per day (pick and drop) you're talking 80 miles of driving. In most other places in the world that simply doesn't happen, the public transportation is heavily subsidized with high taxes, and the distances are shorter.

So in basically a 100 sq mile area how many BSA units do we have. Counted them up and we have 11 Troops to pick from currently. In our own neighborhood, or part of the county there are 2, with 1 within biking/walking distance. But then that's the other thing...we live in a suburban area and you're taking your life into your own hands to ride a bike in this area on the main roads.

In addition to that out of those 11 troops I think only 6 have Packs in the same CO. So why a CO doesn't have both I don't have both I don't know. But it's okay to shop around in any case since we have to go by 11 Troops during the week any way.

I was able to buy a pretty nice banner that we could use at a popcorn table (or scout show, recruiting night) from an online banner maker for about $30. Do most of you who do store front sales find that you have to make reservations about 2 months prior to the sale? That seems to be the cushion that we need to make in our area.

SP- I really like your idea of a different "badge of office". The Denner Cords never seem to fit the boys right and a lot of times they fall apart during games. I've taken to carrying spare pins in my den box. I think something more mobile and smaller is called for and I wish that they still had the old denner patches and pins. Fortunately the old symbol is not hard to copy. You could get a button maker to make it or possibly paint it on a plastic top and make your own pin.

In my time with using a Denner and Assistant Denner the boys like the denner position, or should I say that they like holding the flag during the opening ceremony. I think giving them a few more minutes of responsibility would be helpful. However helping set up the room or the games would require the boys to show up a few minutes early and that would require the parents to get them there on time.

So what is the purpose of the guide and manual? Who does it address? The target audience is the same as with the Rank Manual. Either the rank manual is overkill because it's written to boys who can't possibly understand it, or it's written to the parents and scouters.I think that I can expect a little more from my den and from the parents in my den. So I think a two page guide (or a few more), outlining what a denner does, the expectations and being a training outline is not overkill. Especially if it keeps the Den Leader and parents straight on what they expect out of the position.

So yeah I could wing telling the boys what the expectations are every month, or I could save time and do it once or twice per year as part of an outing or in the den meeting.

et al- Your vote of overkill is noted in the ether of the e-verse and your contribution will forever be celebrated in the misty vale, you have SAVED US ALL.

Let's be honest. The official uniform is mainly worn at official functions and appears to have a certain utility to it. Now would I necessarily wear the official scout uniform in a high adventure situation, or is it? I don't really see it that much anymore. Do a google image search of scouts camping or scouts at philmont. Now if you discount the old photos and the staged photos and only look at those pictures involved in outings you won't see much in the way of the official uniform.

So the official uniform has a faux utility to it. In reality, in an actual scouting situation, not a troop meeting or local service project the uniform is not useful. So if they were to change the uniform to something that was actually useful, had utility to it besides holding patches, then I would certainly invest in it.

However even at that the official BSA uniform is leaps better than UK and Canada Scouting uniforms and I'm likely biased in that.

Yes...I think perhaps it's written more BALOO trainer manual than elementary school guide.

I cut it down, and focused it on Bears...so version 2:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_6b9Q585jKHM4pZeAWvQBcvSvbnukv4oDlAHLZ0Mbfo/edit

Let me know if the length is better. The reading level also drops from about 8.0 to 5.0, at least according to my spell checker.

Denner not a patrol leader- yes I think I spent some time going over that fact.

3 hours- It doesn't have to be 3 hours, it could certainly be less. It doesn't have to be 3 consecutive hours, could as easily be 3 den meetings. In my experience just telling a boy that he's a denner and stand here with the flag and lead the pledge, etc. is about useless and does a disservice to the boy. It throws them on the spot without understanding what the purpose is, sink or swim. I think we owe it to someone stepping into a leadership position an investment in time.

If you compare it to other extracurricular awards 3 hours is not much time...

BSA Family: 5-20 hours

Outdoor Activity: 24+ hours

World Conservation: 12+ hours

Leave No Trace: 6+ hours

for every boy in the den- Again in my experience I don't think it would be necessary to have training for every boy. I would limit it to those who are interested in being a Denner, but certainly offered to all. I would rotate the boys that do not want to do extra training through the Assistant Denner position. I would also only offer a training session maybe once a quarter or bi-annually.

Why is more information needed- because the Den Leader manual lacks any details and is very vague.(This message has been edited by dlchris71)

With one son headed into Webelos and both sons being picky eaters I felt it was time for them to get skin in the game. So the whole family is on a schedule for cooking meals (with dad as advisor). So Sunday my oldest made pancakes and bacon for breakfast, cold cuts for lunch, etc. Last night my youngest wanted to make steaks, mac and cheese, and salad. So I'm letting them hit the stove now.

Anyway its a process and it'll take a while to get them to be attentive to things and realize the steps but they should be able to make anything. The most important thing is that we are really paying attention to the food pyramid (food plate now ugh!) and portion size. Hopefully by the end of the year they'll be into comparing prices and shopping at the grocery store. For now they are still bouncing off displays.

So this year, starting in December I started rotating the boys in my den through the Denner and Assistant Denner. Mainly their roles were to hold the flags during our opening ceremony and to come up with a den yell. For a few weeks now, while I had time I started putting together a Denner Manual and it's in the early stages of development. I wanted to get some feed back on it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TamnASiLyFloBxgBRBFwBM6UXZ9TVSHbSoaZWkn0StU/edit

If you have a skillet you can easily do chicken fajitas...you can get fajita flavoring in foil packs, start off with some oil, slice onions, chicken, and green peppers. Scoop into a flour tortilla. You can also marinate the ingredients in italian dressing and go without the fajita flavoring.

blw2-

I just got finished doing the Emergency Preparedness Award with my den. The award can be completed at Den Level. You would only fill in the first section. Depending on your council either your CC or other awards person can fill in electronic records or you can take the forms down to the council office and they can enter them. But definitely let your Pack know who earned the award.

Since the Tiger Den usually has completed 2/3rds of the requirements to earn this award it would be silly to not allow the boys to work on the rest of the award, given that going over all the requirements would take up a single den meeting. Besides that letting the boys feel that they can help their family prepare for an emergency can help them be less afraid.

My son for example would go into a panic if there was even a tornado watch issued (common for my area). Now after going through EP realizes that there are things that can help prepare a family for a disaster and mitigate loss of life.

Also going over Achievement 3 and Elective 27 can reinforce the importance of the program (show its value).

My one warning on these is that several of the Red Cross programs listed are out of print. You can probably find copies of FACT or BAT around but you would have to contact individual Red Cross Chapters. Some like Greater Chicago still have BAT listed for sale though.

Something our den did for requirement #3 (same for Tiger and Wolf) is to put on a skit for the families about emergency preparedness.

Also this is one that can be done each program year with a den, though you only wear one pin on the uniform.

On the form that you fill out the other sections are for scouters at the unit and district level.(This message has been edited by dlchris71)

I would recommend Washington, DC and a visit to the National Gallery of Art and the Memorials. If you are looking more at beaches then perhaps Savannah or Charleston.

Edit- Saw that you were into biking. DC has some nice features in this regard. There is the C&O Canal and Rock Creek Park are both very nice for biking. Depending on if you are athletic cyclist there is also Skyline Drive in Virginia. DC is also nice in that you can visit the islands in the Chesapeake Bay, Annapolis.

If you're casual cyclist then the National Mall is good and I believe the Metro (public transit) buses are cyclist friendly. Not exactly sure though. When I was a boy living in DC I could ride my bike from NW DC down to the National Mall, generally taking Massachusetts Ave (Diplomacy Row) without much trouble.

Anyway I hope you have a great trip where ever you go.(This message has been edited by dlchris71)

When I was a boy scout I never knew what OA was about and to a certain extent I still don't. Now that I'm an old guy and have been able to read up on it a little I wish I had been given at least a sit down about OA and what it was about.

Given the expertise on this forum is there an acurate synopsis of what OA is and does, and on the flip side someone to explain why a troop would not want to be involved with OA and why?

Not really sure but is it a case that there is a need for some other organization that is OA like with a different theme or is it something else about OA that some people find disagreeable.

And when someone says "our troop is not interested" is it the PLC talking, scouters or CO?

Re OP: At this point in the year as an ADL you're not in much of a position to do anything regarding this year. So now is the time to start getting ready for next year.

The actual game in Wolf is probably easier to work with than Tiger but I'm biased. If you think things could be better for your own son then it is in your interest to be willing to step up. Let the CM know you're interested in becoming more active and helping give a good Wolf program. If you haven't done so start attending round tables, pack committee meetings, and pack leader meetings. Also check your council website for training opportunities.

For the rest of this school year take the opportunity to look at what other awards and activities a Tiger scout could earn. If your den is through with advancement the DL may be fishing for additional fun activities. Rather than non-scouting fun your investigation could lead you to suggestions for "scouting" fun to offer the DL.

Lastly, stay positive and have fun.

Our Council's camp is going to be happening over the next 3 weekends and we have boys going to at least 2 of the 3 sessions, and a "record" for the number attending in one session. In May we were able to get the John Thompson property for a weekend and we are planning on putting a big family camp out with games and exhibitions. My den is planning on doing a LNT presentation at that one and I hope each of the boys is able to draw a poster and come to that event to earn the LNT.

We're in the process of ramping up summer programs but I was just very surprised by the drop off.