DLChris71

Okay my question is this.

Our pack has kids in schools that end the year on June 7 and on June 14.

So should the kids be able to work on their next rank June 1, 7, or 14?

Sad to say that we have some ideas but no concrete plans right now. The ideas are for ice cream social, day at the local beach (sandcastle building, etc.), and something else TBD. I think that a pack meeting in August would be good. Half of our pack is in year round school and the other half is in a normal school so scheduling can be an issue.

The coolest thing I have bought was technically for my Bear Scout.

An energizer 4 LED solar powered spot light. Puts out pretty good light.

From amazon:

"A great choice for a powerful light is the Solar 4LED has many features you may need or find super handy. With 2 power options; either solar panel or AC car adapter. Delivers a large, bright spot light with either 5 hours of charging in the sun for 3.5 hours of runtime or 12 hours of charging through car adapter for up to 5 hours of runtime. Water resistant body with a carry strap for handling."

It's shipping weight is 1.5 pounds but it probably weighs closer to 12 ounces. He can strap it on the back of his pack and let it charge then hang it up in the tent at night to play uno or anything else.

Yeah and an Uno deck is the second coolest gear I've ever gotten.

In my opinion it would count, however I would not make it a habit to camp there. Perhaps use it for troop meetings and shake out over nighters.

My den uses the standard den flag available from national supply with the den numeral ironed on. I combined that with the idea of a den doodle, in that we have leather laces hanging off the flag that we put beads, plastic claws, and plastic arrowheads on to signify the accomplishments of the den. So as each boy gets a belt loop we add a bead of a certain color to the doodle. We tried to reflect as much history of the den as we could, but all of our tigers from last year (including the den leader) quit, so there wasn't much to add on that account. We add bear claws for day hikes and arrowheads for overnighters, with those being den accomplishments. It's pretty cool to look at it, since I can read the beads and tell the boys what they did this past year just by the beads.

They get beads for special awards, loops, pins, service projects, conservation projects, rank, etc.

"So, Engineer61, what you are saying is that announcing that he is in favor of gay marriage could help the President win re-election?

Wouldn't that be something? It would certainly say something about where the country really is on the issue. I am not so sure myself, but I am sure there will be several dozen polls between now and the election, just on the issue of gay marriage, to give us conflicting and ultimately meaningless information on how it will affect the election."

I would be very careful about making that distinction though. An Obama loss being possible one would hope that it wouldn't be blamed on the racist homophobes infecting the independent vote. Especially considering the results of the last election. I don't think the independent voters are really that fickle, and will instead be more swayed by a broader spectrum of the political debate.

On the other hand there are certain tribes that don't give kids much of anything in the way of supervision once they can walk. The children raise each other including running off into the jungle to play, gather food, and learn.

Perhaps in some of these "Go visit a troop requirements" a troop guide or Den Chief could have the boys do Tenderfoot Req. 4, 5, 11, or 12 (stuff the Webelos should have covered) and then sign off on a sheet of paper, explain that a boy would do it, and then have them go ask the SM (or an ASM, or WDL) to give them a SMC. That's the sort of thing that should be practiced in Webelos Dens anyway. The parents should see this pantomime and everyone should get together and talk or ask questions about what happened. That this is the basic form of advancement in Scouts (and should be in Webelos). With the clear understanding that this process is not something that can be accomplished with the parent hovering.

At some point though the hand holding has to end. Whether that is before cross over or if the scout unit can be more empathetic is something that needs to be worked out.

I see Scoutfish at RT and other events.

I guess you could save on groceries that way.

I wouldn't mind the state not having anything to do with marriage. I don't much see how they can be removed completely from the family environment but an end to benefits based on the states certifications of relationships (except noting birth and death) would probably be beneficial.

On a side note, in my old troop you basically went through the canoe MB every trip out, that is before you loaded your canoe you put out, flipped it, and recovered just so everyone knew how to and what to do before heading down river. All the strokes were gone through...I guess requirements 6 and 7. Do other troops not do that?

Does it ever happen that a Webelos acts like a provisional member of a troop. Say goes to their meetings, attends a campout without parents, while still attending den events. Maybe for a month. Would the best way to start working away from homesickness be for scouts to sleep in seperate tents from their parents, or perhaps have the parents even sleep on the far side of the camp site...100 feet instead of 100 yards?

When and if I get the honor to be a WDL I hope to take the boys on overnighters every month, if the weather stays mild in our area. I went camping with my sons every month except January this past year and we only cancelled January (went to Washington DC instead) because we were going to a swampy area and it was forecast for >1" of rain.

My view is that getting a Super Achiever Webelos is not important, that 2 of the 20 activity pins are to be done with the family in any case, and that through our council camp, and another a trip to another council's camp which is longer in duration that the boys can easily pick up at least 8 activity pins. So if 8 can be picked up through resident camps then spend the bulk of our time together working on scout craft, service projects, outings and camping.

If a boy wants to work towards Super Achiever, through stuff like Artist then let him do the bulk at home and just sign him off on it. Let's use the den's time together for fun and adventure.(This message has been edited by dlchris71)

Well everyone knew his position, nice for him to finally admit it. Really clears things up for the election.

Wow Dan, that was a ton of stuff. I'm not sure that the troops around my district do that much, but thanks for the insight.

Well he did say invidious...I looked it up...means bad or something.

Dan wrote:

"...We were "burned" more than once by Webelos dens that asked us to do campouts, help with advancement, and otherwise invest a lot of time and resources to work with them -- and then went "shopping" and decided to join another troop."

Can you quantify how much time and resources your troop spent on Webelos? And also if you spent time and resources that were wasted, what would your troop used those instead if not the opportunity to work with Webelos?

You guys need to decide if its more important for the boys to pursue the medal or to demonstrate self-motivation.

If it's to pursue the medal then I suggest inviting the counselor to come to a troop meeting to make a presentation and talk honestly about the requirements and conditions. Then arrange further group sessions to work on the medal rather than a one-one basis. Most of the protestant medals are organized around group work.

If it's self-motivation perhaps a 50-miler.

Ehhh.

I'll be going with my son next year to different troops.

I think that when we go I'd like to be asked what we are looking for in a troop.

But barring that I'd like to be able to ask and get a decent answer(s).

I'd ask if we could talk to the SPL after the meeting. I'd ask how many trailers they have and if they have any what are they used for. I'd ask how many HA trips they plan to do. Are they active in OA. How many service projects and hours they did in the past 12 months. What their thoughts on FCFY? What's the average age for Eagle scouts in their troop. Do they just go to the council camp or do they switch up. How many POR do they carry. How often do patrols switch out names. How many patrols do they have. Are the patrols actively meeting outside of troop meetings and how often do they do patrol outings. Can we see the equipment shed. What do the three W's on OA lodge patches stand for. Where do the parents/scouters go during meetings. Do they have junior troop leader training. Do they have scouter leader meetings. What is their policy of scout accounts. Where was the last placed they camped. Where have they camped the last 24 months. Do they have a historian and can I see the troop history. Does the troop have Den Chiefs and LNT Trainers. Do they participate in council service days at the council camp. How many of the leaders go to roundtable. What are their views on fundraising.

Yep, you see me coming into the troop meeting, I'll be carrying a binder.

My children have a finite amount of time to enjoy scouting as boys. The last thing we want is to have them join some troop that's going to jerk them around and give them a bad experience in scouting. Sure we could join the troop associated with our pack or whatever other connection there is and yes if the situation turns bad we could leave. But given that most Webelos will be spinning wheels for 3-6 months in a pack it would be wiser to shop around, rather than losing 3-6 months in a troop and then having to sort out things over another month to find another.

I only have two suggestions then...

1) If you allow for even the slightest possibility of there being a higher power in the universe then I respectfully suggest that you are agnostic, rather than an atheist.

2) You should sit down with your son and explain your views and what you understand scoutings views on the matter are. Then ask him if it was still something he wanted to do.

Though not in the same position as you I had a sit down with both my sons to explain to them my views on scouting, that it wasn't just camping, pinewood derby, and fun. That there would be times where they and us as a family, would be called on to provide service to our community, to help our Pack and others, and to be selfless. I told them how I expected them to behave.

Now all of that might have gone in one ear and out the other but I did explain to them what scouting was about and left the final choice to them.(This message has been edited by dlchris71)

To tell the truth in my own Pack we do not discuss religious matters much, practically because the BSA recognizes so many. There is no religious patch or program in scouting that is mandatory and though you are "secular humanist" your discussion of that with your son would technically satisfy the religious requirements up through Bear. However you would probably run into problems at Webelos like you said.

Now I think it's great that people reached out to your son's school in regards to scouting. But you have to recognize that at every meeting your son would be reciting the Cub Scout Promise and you would have two issues. Would your son be making a false promise or would he be actually making a promise that he intends to keep, against your wishes.

I am angered at the pain you experienced and I hope that who ever committed such a crime against you was arrested.

And I can say to you that I too at one time was an atheist. But my experience in scouting, in regards to the positives of religions, did change my outlook. Later becoming agnostic and then a Christian.

I will pray for your family and I hope only the best for you. But participation for your family in scouting will carry consequences, hopefully positive. But if your intention is to deny your son a spiritual life then scouting at any level likely will not be an avenue that will bring you an endorsement of atheism.

I thought all BSA long leg pants came unhemmed. All mine have been...though I cheat and just switch out the one pair of legs I have hemmed

I do like our announcement sessions, as sometimes you can get some insights into what's going before things work themselves through e-mails and website postings. The training portion is hit or miss. Some of them could have been handled through e-mail or web listings. The last meeting was on dutch oven recipes. The one before was on cub scout knot awards.

The only one that I've been to that was worthwhile was the one about camping locations.

If I go to a roundtable I would prefer to receive information about program delivery. A recipe swap and a session on knots for leaders is not exactly what I'm looking for.

I think I'm a terrible example...I tell my boys to stay active, eat healthy, or your going to end up being a big fat slob like your den leader (and father). In one more year I have got to be fit to take my den out when I'm a Webelos leader. Now I know that we'll be in a lot of drive up camp sites, but I'm hoping to do places like Oyster Point (Croatan NF), Morrow Mountain (Uwharrie), heck even Carolina Beach SP has a 3-4 mile loop through sand trails. So I have to get in shape.

I can tell you being overweight sucks (fatigue, lethargy, pain). But it's also a lot like alcoholism. Proper nutrition means making proper choices and those choices are what we are asking the boys to make.