Chippewa29

As a Scout: Arrow of Light, Eagle (no palms), Vigil Honor (before I made Eagle); was APL, PL (twice), ASPL (three times), SPL (twice); also did a stint as troop librarian; in OA, served as chapter and lodge officer for five years, Section Vice Chief for one Currently: SM of my home troop the past four years after 8 years as ASM and two as committee chair.

I'm fortunate that we get a lot of adults that like to come on campouts with us. We are often able to have at least 6- to 8-deep leadership. My concern is when parents that come on campouts bring their other kids to stay overnight with us. One dad has a six year old son that has been on several campouts already. He is a nice kid (in some ways he's more ready for Scouts than some of our 11 year olds), but I have two concerns. The first is that the kid doesn't stay with his dad the whole time. Often, he tries to follow the scouts and will sometimes wander off in the woods exploring by himself. My second concern is that if we start getting several parents doing that (we have quite a few younger siblings in the troop), then we could have a problem on our hands, especially if the younger sibling isn't as obedient as the six year old. My feeling is that the only time siblings should stay overnight on campouts is when they are Webelos age and with their parent. We had a younger sibling (fourth grade Webelo) last spring who whined and complained the entire weekend because there were some parts of our campout that I wouldn't let him participate in because I didn't feel he was emotionally mature enough (Mom agreed with me). He kept coming up to me and whining all weekend and was constantly getting in the way of his older brother's patrol. Mom kept trying to get her younger son to stay out of the older Scout's way, but every time she turned her back, he would be off trying to get in on the activities. Normally, I would consider a Webelo wanting to participate with the Scouts a big plus. However, this kid was 9 1/2 with the maturity of a 5-6 year old. One other item I need some advice on in this area has to do with siblings that are Scout age. We have a Scout that is 15 with a 12 year old brother. The 12 year old was in the troop, but Scouts wasn't what he wanted it to be, so he basically quit. However, there are a couple of events a year that his dad goes on and really likes. His dad pays for him to go on these events as a "guest" (his brother also goes). The dad expects this kid to be able to fully participate with the rest of the troop. However, the kid won't listen to any of the troop leaders (youth or adult) and the kid ends up eating with the adults (we cook for ourselves on campouts) but not lifting one finger to help (it isn't worth the fight). What do other troops do about this?

I currently own a 1981 Southwest Michigan Council patch made for the National Jamboree that year. It is shaped like a shield and has Snap, Crackle, and Pop on it dressed as Revolutionary War Fife and Drummers. It also has Copyright 1981 Kellogg Company (the council has Kellogg's in its borders) on it. From what I was told, the council had to pay Kellogg's a fee for every one of these patches produced. I think it is pretty valuable and would like to see where I could get it appraised (I'm divesting my collection). Does anyone have any suggestions on where I could get a fair appraisal of its worth?

I just got a call from the dad in my troop who was making the reservations for our September backpacking trip. Apparently, the support staff at council lost our reservation to go backpacking that was made in June and now someone else has been booked in our spot. Long story short, we are now scrambling trying to find another backpacking trail to hike on next month. I've been searching the net for the past hour trying to find other hiking trails in Michigan or northern Ohio. I've already tried all the council sites, but they haven't been helpful. Does anyone know of a book or website that lists different backpacking trails in Michigan or northern Ohio that we could check out.

I came to the forum to post a new thread, but I'll just tack onto this one. It is along the same lines. Last night at our committee meeting, a couple of parents were complaining about the kids needing to wear a uniform, especially during the summer. One of the dads said that when he went to training last year, they talked about how the required parts of the uniform were the shirt, socks, hat, and belt. To me, that went against everything I had heard for years. Could someone please post a link to an official site (BSA Supply Division, etc.) that gives the official definition of what a Scout uniform is? Otherwise, a couple of people on my troop committee are going to try and create a troop policy on what uniform actually should be (in their opinion).

I like the idea about actually recruiting volunteers instead of just asking for them. About two years ago, we had some upset parents because certain things weren't happening in the troop. When I got brought to task before the troop committee, I told them I was doing about six jobs in the troop at the time and I needed help. The only one who would step forward to be an ASM was probably the last dad I wanted to do so. He has been a pain at times, but with the help of our unit commissioner, we managed to find a role for him that would minimize his weaknesses and play up to his strengths. Since then, when I've wanted something done, I went and asked people one on one. Even if they didn't take on the position I wanted, they became more active and we now have very good adult help (still a little shy in the ASM department).

When my troop's new youth leaders takes office soon, I'd like to have a half-day training session for them to explain how the PLC works, how their individual jobs work, and build some teamwork among the leaders in the troop. Does anyone have a training similar to that they've used for their troops?

My troop used to have the same problem. It was a couple of adults doing pretty much everything. Our former SM always whined and moaned about no one ever helped him. However, he was a control freak and everything was his way or the highway. He also had done a ton of training (basically, everything our council offered) and made himself seem like the end-all, know-all of Scouting. Parents in the troop were put off by two things. The first was that they wouldn't have a say in the troop, but were merely there to do what the SM said. They also felt like they would have to put in tons of hours and take months and months of training. You won't find many people willing to do either. Something you need to ask yourself is if the leaders doing most of the work are presenting the troop as an open place where everyone is welcome. In the past, parents didn't feel welcome in our troop, even if they wanted to help. Everyone is busy. If people think they will have to donate many hours every week for a long period of time, then they will not commit. Initially, ask them if they can put in an hour or two on a temporary basis. Once they realize its actually kind of fun to help out, they may volunteer for bigger things. Or, they may just occasionally help out on smaller things. Either way, the troop wins. If you want to get them camping with you, let them know how much fun they'll have. The adults have almost as much fun on campouts (if not more) than the Scouts. We've gotten to the point where we have parents come out to camp during the day just to hang out with the other adults while their sons are having fun with their patrols. If you are going to be close by, invite the parents out for dinner (or lunch or whatever) so they can observe what the Scouts are doing. While they are there, they'll see how much fun they can have and how relaxing it can be. You'll always have parents that don't help out, but with an inviting attitude and helping them swallow a small bite will gradually (emphasize that) get you more and more help. Also, something I found while recruiting Webelos is that it is very important to see what the parent's attitudes are like. There has been a couple of times where I realized that the parents just wanted a babysitting service and wanted us to cater to their kids. I stopped recruiting those dens. On the other hand, I've met Webelos leaders that had great attitudes (as well as the other parents in the den) and have made a huge effort to recruit them. Good luck with continuing to build up your troop.

Most of the kids in my troop don't have nicknames (other than shorted versions of their real names). However, at one time when I was a Scout, we had four of us (out of twelve Scouts) with the same first name. They had to nickname all of us to tell us apart. Even though the other guys with my name left over the years, my nickname persisted until I was well into college. Occasionally, someone from the old days will stop by and refer to me by my old nickname. This past week at camp, I refered to three of our 13 year olds as Athos, Porthos, and Arimus. When I told them those were the names of the Three Musketeers, they loved it and started using it themselves.

As we are all aware, in order to get First Class, a Scout needs to attend ten activities outside of troop meetings, including a certain number of overnight camping trips. My troop camps about ten times a year and the other two months, we'll do a day long activity. A Scout that is active should be able to make First Class in a year. In preparation for our backpacking trip in September, we are holding weekly prep hikes (about 1 1/2-2 hours each). The purpose is for the Scouts to get some miles under their belts before taking on a long trip. We'll end up doing 7-8 of these hikes before the backpacking trip in September. My question is this: should these prep hikes count toward the ten activities? I'm leaning both ways on this and would like some opinions on what people think. Thanks in advance.

Growing up, I always wanted to be a Navy officer. After a mishap on the paperwork, my application for a NROTC scholarship wasn't processed (it wasn't discovered until it was too late). I enrolled in Navy ROTC anyway (no scholarship) and was still on my way. When the Navy started to cut back after the first Gulf War, they got rid of all of us that didn't have scholarships. Any other year, I would have been able to continue in the program. With that dream gone, I started looking toward other areas. I worked and coached at a high school for ten years (recently left) and am now focusing on building a business while continuing to rebuild my Scout troop. Once I get more financially secure, I'd like to spend more time helping other people gain belief in themselves and encouraging them to live their dreams. I think that most problems in the world would be solved if people had more confidence in themselves.

Next weekend, my troop is going white water rafting for the second time. We had a great time last year and I'm looking forward to going again this year. However, I have a few reservations. 1. We have only 9 out of 22 Scouts in the troop going. Also, there are no Scouts going unless their parents are going. It seems to me that if you have less than 50% of the eligible Scouts going on an outing, then the troop needs to re-evaluate that activity (we picked the date back in January and everyone was aware). 2. The dad coordinating the event decided that instead of cooking in camp, everyone was on their own for food (there are restaurants nearby). He and a few other adults (I wasn't involved in the discussion) felt it was more convenient to not have to cook or coordinate any of the meals. 3. One of the families invited some friends of theirs (non-Scouters) to come with us for the second year in a row. These people are very nice and didn't cause any problems last year. My concern is that if other people in the troop do the same thing, then we'll have a bunch of non-troop members coming to a "troop function" and they may not all be that well-behaved. 4. After the rafting last year, the tour company took everyone back to camp and gave everyone tickets for two free drinks while we waited for the pictures and video to be developed (it took about 45 minutes). Beer was an option for the drinks. While no one got out of hand at all, I really questioned the appropriateness of having beer consumed during a "Scout" campout (even if we didn't bring it). I believe there is a similar deal for this year. What have other troops faced while on their white water or other types of trips? I don't want to make big waves if I don't need to, but I also can see this as being a bad precedent for other trips.

Back to the original subject, I also saw the picture and was very impressed. If I were closer to DC, I would have liked to do the same thing with my troop. That picture would look incredible if painted by Norman Rockwell or Joe Csatari.

I've coached endurance athletes for years and would like to offer a couple of cents worth of experience. First of all, Jim Fixx, who wrote the book on running in the 1970's, died of a heart attack at the age of 54. He was the first male in his family history to live beyond the age of 44. A year or two ago, I saw an interview with his son, who claims that shortly before his death, his father commented about how his running had added ten years to his life (to that point). If Jim Fixx had not been a runner, he probably would have died in his early- to mid-40's like his ancestors. As far as getting ready for a backpacking trip, one major component not mentioned yet is occasionally (once every week or two) depleting the body of its glycocen stores. After they are completed, they kick into overdrive to replace the lost glycocen (this is during recovery). For example, if you have ten units of glycocen and then deplete them, when your body recovers, you'll have 11 units to replace it and thus, more endurance. The glycocen depletion takes at least 1-2 hours of continuous activity. If you want to fit this for backpacking, I would carry a pack and go hiking for at least an hour. Eventually, build up to 2-3 hours of hiking nonstop (no rest breaks) to get your body used to being depleted. When you go to Philmont, you'll be taking rest breaks every 30-60 minutes. If your body is only used to going for an hour, then resting for the rest of the day, you are in trouble. If your body is used to going 2-3 hours at a time, then getting a rest every hour will leave you plenty in reserve for the rest of the day. In regards to the idea of lunges: they are great, but you need to make sure you knee stays at least 90 degrees or more (less than 90 degrees causes undo stress). Also, do let you knee go in front of your toes. If you have any more questions, feel free to email me.

I know that Scouting is very popular in Utah. A big reason is that the LDS church is very strong there and Scouting is the official youth program of the LDS church.

I got a new FieldBook for my troop about two weeks ago and it still hasn't made it into the troop library because I've been reading it. I'm very impressed with it. I think its added a lot of higher level information that you didn't find in the past. It got me all fired up about going on some adventures this year.

FOG- Excellent ideas. I've never come across any handbooks in used book stores, but it is definitely worth a try. I'll have them check at the Salvation Army stores and other thrift stores nearby.

An old friend is currently working to build a Scout group (Cubs and Boy Scouts) at his church in the inner city. Most of the kids come from single family homes. They are obviously low on money. The kids are trying to learning Scouting without the use of handbooks, uniforms, etc. My troop donated some old camping equipment to get them started. They are trying to help the kids families come up with uniforms, but cost is obviously an issue. We've looked on Ebay, but it doesn't help a whole lot (especially once you add in shipping). Does anyone know of some places where we might be able to get some cheaper uniforms? Also, if anyone has a current edition of the handbook they aren't using, would you mind donating it to these Scouts so they can at least start working on their advancement? I donated an old handbook from a Scout that was in our troop for about three months and quit. Right now, that is the troop library. Thanks in advance.

I'd like to know what the official policy and some opinions on traveling in uniform to and from events. I feel that the Scouts should wear the uniform when traveling. For campouts, I like the Scouts to wear their uniforms for meals, but they can change into "grubby clothes" for activities. Any thoughts or suggestions?

In regards to whomever said that the pants, socks, etc. should just be something similar from any store, this is what I've seen over the years. Instead of official Scout pants, Scout A buys a pair of green pants that look very similar to the BSA pants. Scout B buys a pair of pants that are a kind of green/tan color. Scout C buys a pair of pants that are tan. Scout D buys a pair of the jean-type khakis. Scout E buys a nice pair of blue jeans. Scout F wears jeans that are torn with holes in the knees. I've heard all the arguments. My current pair of Scout pants was bought in 1996. Since then, I've worn them to over 300 troop meetings and 45-50 campouts, not to mention service projects, crossovers, roundtable, etc. They are still in excellent condition. Yes, they are more expensive than most of my pants, but when you look at the per use cost, it doesn't come to that much. For a Scout, if they buy a pair of pants that is a size too large to start, they can usually get two years wear out of them (I got two years out of my first pair even though I grew over a foot in those two years). We usually have 45-46 troop meetings a year, plus an outdoor activity each month. A Scout that is active can get about 100 wearings or so out of those pants in two years. If they don't outgrow them during that time, they'll get even more uses out of them. There are so many pairs of Scout pants floating out there right now, it shouldn't be that hard to get a unit outfitted. If the Scouts and families want it to happen bad enough, they'll find a way. I've seen Scouts whose parents claim they can't afford the pants and the Scout shows up for summer camp with $50 in cash to spend on pop and candy at the trading post. Its all a matter of priorities.

We are starting to get more leaders among the Scouts and I am getting more expendible (one of my goals). Our SPL was out of town this week, so he asked two of our older Scouts (one 13, one 14) to teach the guys in the troop about cold weather camping (we are going two weekends from now). Instead of just winging it, these two went online to get information. Then, they spent two hours preparing notes and dividing up the information so they could tag team teach it. When we got to the meeting, they split up the two patrols and each worked with one, then after 15 minutes, switched to the other. I just sat back and checked in every 5-10 minutes. Things went well, the Scouts learned a lot, and two of our older Scouts realized that they are very capable of leading training sessions. Those two Scouts aren't even our top leader. We are starting to get some momentum in regards to getting things done without my having to do it. I enjoyed it quite a bit and hope it continues.

My troop is getting 2-4 Scouts crossing over from a pack where we've never gotten Scouts before, but have recruited off and on for years. We have a troop in our area that usually gets 30+ Webelos crossing over from 6-8 different packs. The other five troops in the same area have to fight for the other 7-8 packs. The Webelos from this pack usually go to the mega-troop. We're also getting a couple of Webelos from another pack that has fed into us in the past. Their Webelos leader is friends with another SM and wanted the kids to go to that troop, but after coming to our troop meeting, a couple of them decided to join us instead. We have one other pack that will cross over in early April. No word yet on how many new Scouts we'll get from there. If things go well, we'll be over twenty active Scouts in the troop. Quite a change from the three we had four years ago at this time (all of which have aged out by now).

Over the holidays, I cleaned out my closets and found many years worth of Boys Life and Scouting Magazines. They aren't old enough to get any money from them on Ebay, so I decided to donate them as a resource for the Scouts in the troop. The troop librarian is organizing them. I wanted to see how I could get an index of what is in the magazines over the years. Does anyone know how I could access something like that without going through and copying the table of contents of each magazine? Thanks in advance for your help.

I became an ASM when I was 18, and since most of the guys in the troop were shortly before my fellow Scouts, they called me by my first name. As new kids joined the troop, it just never changed. A few of the kids now call me Mr. First Name, but I'm still at least 7-8 years younger than any parent (and 20+ years younger than several of the older parents). Since I'm single and childless, I often seem younger than I am. I always address the other adults in conversation by their first name, but refer to them when speaking to the Scouts by Mr. or Mrs. Smith. One bonus of my age being between that of the kids and parents is that there are times when a Scout is going to be more himself around me than he would around someone a parent age who he has to address as Mr. Smith. As long as the Scouts still treat that adult with due respect, I don't have a problem if they call me by my first name.

Another suggestion for your BOR is to wear your leather dress shoes and make sure they are shined beforehand. If the buckle on your Scout belt doesn't look like new, then get some brass cleaner and shine it up. If you do get your shirt cleaned and pressed, ask them to do a military press on it. My best advice for you would be to relax and try to enjoy it. If you've made it this far, then you're probably pretty well qualified. If you weren't, your SM probably would have worked with you to take the necessary and make sure you were qualified.