AwakeEnergyScouter

I bet they could order an abaya, niqab, chador, or even burqa in that color. But safety is a thing also - since floor-length dresses obviously have caused literally death before at scouting events, there's a limit to how accommodating we can be. Checking on what guidelines predominantly Muslim countries use is a great idea - including where they draw that safety line. If pants are absolutely out, then there's a limit to what kinds of events they could participate in safely.

This is the point that is being made. Well, with the extension that when lack of perfection occurs, we accept that, and move on with delivering the program. What you control is the bar. Set the bar, but at the same time don't let lack of uniform perfection keep scouts out of the program.

Absolutely, that's all true. The question isn't whether you should set high expectations, the question is what you do with those individuals who consistently do not meet those expectations. Do you let it slide or do you kick them out? Are you saying kick them out, then?

Arguably, they've already discovered the reasons for most of that stuff, just not at a scout meeting. Why is it important to be kind and friendly? They know. I would suggest applied philosophy discussion plus some puzzle-type memorization aid, if possible lead by tigers who already have their bobcat. Worked pretty well for us.

Heard at the end of last den meeting at 8 PM, twice from different parents: "Come on, Name-of-scout, we need to go, we haven't eaten" Scouts were in T-shirts. Excellent. But scouts also need food in bellies.

Whoa!! It stays in her hair??

My hope for my cubs is that they cross over ready to pitch a tent, pack their gear, read a map, and cook for their patrol, and find their pride in that they can do it themselves. Perhaps sloppily and inefficiently. But knowing from doing what it means to be prepared. This is my hands-on contribution to the future of the BSA.

You're right, that would be one heck of a slide! 😂 Although the weight of that thing probably would make the slide fall off all the time, too, worse than the existing slides 🤦🏼‍♀️ My scout lost an official cub scout slide on a night hike, and is now sporting a classic homemade valknot slide.

Paradoxically, sometimes this great prestige that being an Eagle scout confers in US society seems to make scouting harder sometimes. Some kids seem to get pushed into scouting that aren't a great fit for what the program is about. My US cub scouts ask if I made Eagle in Sweden. Not only didn't we have such a capstone award, being a scout isn't anything I would ever consider putting on my Swedish résumé. Any prestige you get from being an old scout is among other outdoorsy people, and only if you can "back it up" with skills. And worn gear.

That was a wise decision.

Whoa! I thought you made that up as a facetious example! 😱

I can do better than that, here's my scout's never-used official scout bow. Well, ok, there was that first meeting during which they discovered that these giant bows always slide out of your hair very quickly and just turn into a hassle. I knew it was a waste of money when I agreed to buy it, but I really wanted them to be excited about scouting, so I bought a bunch of useless stuff like this bow and scout socks just to build the energy. The socks are always declined also.

And the short sleeved shirt needs a long-sleeved base layer in winter, as does the skort if you choose it for the bottom. Not to worry of course, they have official BSA leggings and base layer shirts. And bows if you don't want a hat. What scout wears a bow in the woods? There's a reason the first Swedish girl scouts only pretended to scout in skirts. It's the same reason I've seen zero scout bows in the wild.

I did not. I think someone got confused about the point of scouting.

Can't we sell toothpaste or something?

Well, not just boys, but more importantly - it's not the scout socks, belt, and pants that are so distinctive. It's the necker, the woggle, and the shirt with badges that's so recognizable. You can drop a good number of official BSA uniform items before anyone not in the BSA even notices, and popcorn selling has also taught me that not even former (and sometimes even current 🤦🏼‍♀️) scouts can always tell a BSA uniform from a GSUSA uniform. When I was a scout, our uniform consisted entirely of the shirt and the necker with woggle. No alternates, not pants or socks or hats or multiple "classes" or uniforms. (Still have no idea what that actually means.) BSA uniform requirements are off the chain - inspection sheets? Really? For 5, 6, 7, 8-year-olds?

Best of luck, @5thGenTexan! Sounds like it was time. Scouts is a wonderful movement, but everyone cycles in and out based on life circumstances and local conditions. You've given a lot to the movement, and it's ok to step away. Enjoy what comes next!

It can also be the other way around - if your patrol members attend different schools, then you expand your friendship circle and have more social support. Half of my troop attended my school, the other half attended another. My friendship group in my patrol mostly came from the other school, friends I wouldn't have made without scouts.

Our Webelos invited a councilperson to a pack meeting for this adventure last year. They did not complete YPT. We also invited city workers to give an outreach presentation about recycling. They also didn't do YPT. Our council invites police officers to summer camp every year. Don't think they've done YPT, either. All of these interactions are also incredibly public and one-off. The councilperson spoke from a stage, the workers also would have, and the police officers kind of did too. They couldn't find the scouts again even if they tried. The risk is incredibly low for these kinds of interactions with non-scouters. It makes sense to not need YPT for them.

Yes. But at the same time, there's no workable alternative. What would really have fixed everything requires time travel. So would holding the perpetrators and enablers all personally accountable. And so on and so on. That's part of the sadness. The size of the problem kept growing for many decades because victims didn't get justice while new ones were created. All that can be done in this very moment is to do everything that still can be, legally speaking, and then "eating bitter" about the cost to today's scouts. If we can bear this with equanimity, we cut off further lashes of undesirable consequences that we bring on ourselves with aggressive reactions to getting what we don't want. If we can just sit on our hands and soothe our hearts, we can let this karma move on through without creating more. That in turn creates the space to build anew. We just have to not get bitter ourselves, while eating it skillfully.

I know what you mean, but in fairness to the US Americans as individuals, there are multiple legal and political-philosophical system differences that give the lower litigiousness in Sweden. One obvious one for the case of falling out of a tree is that nobody needs to raise money for the medical bills. This obviates a major reason to sue in the US. Tort claims for injury are compensation for suffering, not costs incurred, and are often ordered by a judge in connection with a criminal case (see below for why that is). Another is that safety is a strong societal value in Sweden. We've been collectively buckling up in cars since before I was born and it blows my mind that anyone alive in the US today would ever have not worn their seatbelt on purpose, or even worse been in a truck bed while the truck was moving 😱. The value isn't a bubble, it's active risk mitigation. So when all adults are socially expected to effectively reduce risk and will be ostracized if they don't, you need a lot less "GTSS" rules. There's a social regulation mechanism that works pretty well already. (Similarly, the social situation around CSA is very different.) My scout cannot skate without a hockey helmet. They're always the only kid on the ice with a helmet, because the rink doesn't require them. My scout will also never be one of the people sitting on the ice holding their head in their hands going "oooowwww". (Swedish mom SMH moment every time, ice is hard and falls happen, both 100% predictable.) My car will not go anywhere unless everyone in it is wearing their seatbelts, and nobody goes boating with me without an approved life jacket preferably with a horse collar in case of unconsciousness. (Especially if there will be drinking.) I see that other parents think I'm hard-line on this stuff. (They also think I'm negligent when I let my scout out of my sight, but that's another cultural difference 😂)) I do it anyway because I feel that social support/pressure on those standard safety equipment things. I heard a million reminders from every direction as a kid and so I can't let my own kid use less safety gear than I did, can I? We also see the role of the government differently, and also have civil law instead of common law. We directly regulate or even criminalize a lot of safety and civil rights issues (because it's the government's job to ensure that every citizen's rights and freedoms are upheld) rather than wait for citizens to indirectly limit them via lawsuits. And since civil law depends a great deal less on precedent than common law, we limit what suing is meant to be for in a way that you can't do as easily in common law. Every system has advantages and disadvantages. Lawsuit mania is one of the disadvantages of the US system. No doubt some US Americans are just greedy, but many are given suing as the tool of choice of the system they live in. Can't fault them for using the tool they're pointed to. And you can't really stop the greedy ones without taking away a tool of justice.

Don't forget King! 😉 The monarchy is timeless 😉

I agree. Last week we ran into a formerly quite involved family who left our pack - not because they didn't like us and/or scouting, the now former scout just liked sports more and had to choose. They chose sports. My scout, OTOH, had the same choice and chose scouts. So we're here and they're not, but that particular reason isn't the only reason anyone ever leaves - some have had family issues that sucked time away, some moved, some did this, some did that... and without some data gathering, it's really hard to say if there is a clear top one, two, or three reasons why families leave that we collectively should focus on.

This is a big part of the reason I'm making time to be a leader. There aren't many adult women who scouted in a WOSM-aligned NSO here in the US, so I see an opportunity to help here. I'm also good with kids, so it seems like a bit of a lost opportunity if I don't lead.

That sounds pretty solid. No idea if we can afford that but that sounds like a great general check of, well, everyone. And not that intrusive or time-consuming.