SiouxRanger

27 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

And squandered the respect of much of the nation...

"Trustworthy"

And has anyone been paying attention?

TRUSTHWORTY NOT.

On 7/27/2023 at 12:46 PM, KublaiKen said:

I can't even envision a scenario where I ask a girl to take her Gold Award off her BSA uniform.

And so, I'll just jump in to the discussion of a female wearing a Gold Award on her BSA uniform.  (And I've posted with respect to other topics following this in the same thread, so I am "backing up" a bit.)

Once one earns a patch and it is awarded to you, it is YOURS.  You can wear it according to provisions of the organization that awarded it to you, throw it way, glue it to your windshield, give it to a younger sibling.  Feed it to a pet.

It is yours to do with as you like.

So a young lady earns Girl Scouting's highest rank, and us BSA folks presume to tell her to remove it from her BSA uniform.

Can anyone explain to me the merit in discouraging a youth to DENY their accomplishment by compelling the youth to remove a badge of their highest rank from another organization?

"Yeah, we know you've earned THREE OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALS, but our organization's Rabid Rodent Medal dictates that Olympic Gold Medals are verboten.

BSA has wasted somewhere in the nature of 2 Billion dollars.

The point of my posts: I just don't care-these are pointless semantic discussions that add nothing to the forward-looking discussions of this forum.  A waste of time.  There are critically important things to discuss, expose, and understand.

Typos aren't it.

And so,

As an SPL of a Junior Leader Training Troop, 1967 or so, I was told that I needed to know the names and tent assignments of every scout in the troop.  Such stress.  I got that job done.

And on Philmont Ranger Staff-we had to learn every Scout's name. And we did so.

And, so as a lawyer.  Names ARE IMPORTANT.  Everyone expects to be addressed by their first name.  As they should. And in legal documents, it is critical.  Seton's legacy will thrive or diminish, not on the occasional spelling of his name, but on his actions.

17 minutes ago, skeptic said:

While the levity is possibly warranted, it also reflects on a serious issue in our society, in my old guy view.  Spelling and grammar are important things, whether in these forums or in life.  In the case of Scouting history, it seems right that the name should be properly spelled, at least to me.  It reminds me a bit of the teacher that asked me why I circled mispelled words on a student's paper, even if the word was not related to the subject directly.  I told her that I felt education should extend beyond the lines and subject, and that spelling was an important skill in its own right, even if it had little or nothing to do with the subject.  I was not marking the student down, just drawing their attention to the importance, as I saw it.  Everybody has a viewpoint, and many obviously do not agree with me.  Their right.  Th anks for the couple chuckles too.  Interesting, as an aside, Seton did not settle on his name in print until years later, when he generally usedl Ernest Thompson Seton, or E. T. Seton.  Some of his early writing has Ernest Seto Thompson on it.  but the Seton was still spelled that way.  

Well, is is one thing to note a misspelling.  And, not all misspellings are created equal, this is a misspelling based on a phonetic identicality, but really unnecessary to point it out twice.  Might be one thing were the misspelling intentional and intended to mean disrespect, but Seton does have a name which is amenable to several spellings (Seton, Seeton, Seaton) all of which are phonetically identical. The mistake is understandable, and, I have made it myself on a camp map, inadvertently reverting to the spelling of the last name of a realtor I was familiar with.

"Ask not for whom the spell checker comes, he comes for thee." John Donne.

3 minutes ago, skeptic said:

While the levity is possibly warranted, it also reflects on a serious issue in our society, in my old guy view.  Spelling and grammar are important things, whether in these forums or in life.  In the case of Scouting history, it seems right that the name should be properly spelled, at least to me.  It reminds me a bit of the teacher that asked me why I circled mispelled words on a student's paper, even if the word was not related to the subject directly.  I told her that I felt education should extend beyond the lines and subject, and that spelling was an important skill in its own right, even if it had little or nothing to do with the subject.  I was not marking the student down, just drawing their attention to the importance, as I saw it.  Everybody has a viewpoint, and many obviously do not agree with me.  Their right.  Th anks for the couple chuckles too.  Interesting, as an aside, Seton did not settle on his name in print until years later, when he generally usedl Ernest Thompson Seton, or E. T. Seton.  Some of his early writing has Ernest Seto Thompson on it.  but the Seton was still spelled that way.  

I agree.

Auto correct (disconstruct) has laid waste to more than a few sentences of mine, and many others, and I have spent effort to double check, correct and edit.

And, just for the technical record, as a lawyer who has made nearly ZERO known typos (to me or mentioned to me) in 45 years (20 to 40? on nearly 1 million pages of work product at 300± words per page???) which have "escaped" the office, auto correct is a veritable minefield.

Homer nodded.

Chess Blindness.

In this environment, the BSA Survival Epoch, content is considerably more important than form.

A Philmont Ranger, during the height of discussions in HQ a long time ago about ghosts on Urraca Mesa, reportedly all in some way related to the "Blue Lights" reported seen there by "someone some time ago," told me, "I'm going to the DMZ Korea at the end of the Summer and will face real threats-I've no time to worry about trifles."

Now I struggle to spell Uraca, Uracca, Urracca, Urraca...

And does it matter?

The Mesa is still there.

Folks who claim to have seen Blue Lights, and connected them to ghosts, well, those tales are not erased.

"Gravity is just a theory," but as Prof. Stephen Jay Gould further noted, "The apple still falls."

And, however one spells "Seton," his accomplishments are written in the granite of history. And there they remain.

Don Letarmen’s Top Ten Responses…

10. I was texted by another granddaughter of Mr. Seeton and was told that E.T. couldn’t spell his own last name.  “He ‘phoned home’ to the wrong number. And, got bad advice.”

9.  Auto correct is a failed concept.

8.  What is the only sentence in the English language that cannot be written?  Try typing “There are three (and then phonetically, (to, too, two)’s in the English language.”

7. Roger does not complain that his name is spelled as “Mudd.”

6. Contestant:  “Who is Earnest Thompson Seeton?” Alex, “Correct-$200.”  (It’s an AUDIBLE-Hello!)

5. "NOOO!!! You don't have to call me Johnson! My name is Raymond J. Johnson Jr. Now you can call me Ray, or you can call me J, or you can call me Johnny, or you can call me Sonny, or you can call me Junie, or you can call me Junior; now you can call me Ray J, or you can call me RJ, or you can call me RJJ, or you can call me RJJ Jr. . . but you doesn't hasta call me Johnson!"

4. Is it Harry S. Truman, or Harry S Truman?

3. Who is, or are ( or now, were) Winston S. Churchill?

2. The “a” only makes a difference if the equation comes out as “e*a=m*c^2.

1.  What is “a” in the equation above? (And include a mailing address for your Nobel, please.)

And, how many Pharaohs CAN dance on the head of a pin? (Nobody cares. Well, but, sorry, it DOES depend on the size of the pin head. Now if the pin head is of Summarian origin, 4,000 B.C., copper, not nickel,…)

As a BSA Certified Angling Instructor, there are many freshwater lakes which have little to no structure in them to nurture fish populations.

There are likely all manner of artificial fish reefs that could be made to improve fish habitat from all manner of things otherwise destined for landfills.

This whole concept needs serious thought by folks with more credentials than me.

37 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I am all about the SKILLS for a MB being taught at a meeting, but then the Scout must take that skill to his MB Counselor and demonstrate it to his counselor's satisfaction...

Meetings should not be about requirements.  Instead, there should be skills instruction, and perhaps a competition built around that skill...

Yep.

1.  Scouts hear skills and get to practice them. (Once)

2.  Write them down. (Twice)

3.  Review to meet with MB Counselor ((Thrice)

4.  Explain to MB Counselor (???)  (Ah ha-this is a "look-before-you-leap" situation..." 4th"?  That's not really a good answer...FRICE. (Well, the suggestion of one source-apparently no accepted term for 4th in the sequence. ))

Scouts have to work though the material about frice times-lots of rehearsals of the material to aid in recall.  Not perfect but better than having to wake them up to give them their Blue Card.

Every time I reviewed my college notes for an exam I'd put a tick mark in the upper right hand corner.  Four tick marks and I was done with review.

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

"Kramer said he hopes people will remember that Scouting started as a way of teaching young people to help others and to do the right thing."

Doing the 'right thing' is what it is all about.

"Kind" is 6th on the Scout Law, but should be second behind Trustworthy.

At a climbing silo, (a former grain silo now a technical climbing facility), a scout was looking down to rappel.  He was terrified. He fiddled around, looking down many times, clearly reluctant. He wanted to rappel but was afraid.  Maybe 10 minutes of hesitancy. I told him he did not need to rappel-it was OK not to.  (I don't like heights.)  He finally got up the mental gumption and did the rappel. Huge smiles all around. A huge milestone.

I saw a scout in tears attempting to re-enter his swamped canoe for his merit badge, half a dozen attempts, with the greatest camp-staffer-of-all-time watching patiently in another canoe, calmly encouraging the scout. The scout finally got the job done. It was painful to watch. But a milestone accomplishment in that Scout's life.

So, of all the bugs, rain, heat and sweat (and, hello, frustration), what are THE moments that rewarded you most for your efforts?

At a troop meeting not long ago, I was showing the Scouts how contours worked/meant on a map using 3D models I had made of selected areas on Philmont.

One particularly bright Scout looked up at me from the map and models and said, "That is cool."

I replied, "It IS cool!"

No cellphone. Just knowledge. And wonder, and the Epiphany. (What is this new world I see?)

A highlight of my adult leader years.

Fred8033 is a treasure here. Among a choir of voices of reason. I thank Fred8033 and all of you for your guidance, wisdom, and balance.

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Repeat after me:

HI, My Name is Fred8033, it's been 18 hours since I had anything to do with Scouting, and I am a Scouting Addict.  🤣

OK, I'm in for 4 Upvotes, 2 Thanks, and a dozen chuckles.

On 7/24/2023 at 8:38 PM, 5thGenTexan said:

I am on the other side of this than most here.

Actually, you probably are closer to or in the majority.

As a small town lawyer, well, I also have a degree in Psychology.  The field of counseling has advanced far beyond my studies 50 years ago.

Many clients, and more broadly, members in their families, have psychological issues, which dramatically affect the course of legal proceedings.

"Just a mere lawyer here," but psychological issues are about 80% of what I do.  No kidding.

Counselors now have a much more refined understanding of issues, and I would strongly recommend you meet with a counselor, and if that meeting is not helpful, try another. Philosophical approaches vary.

Every life is a flower. That flower exists only once.  It has unique value. That flower projects itself to the world and passersby partake of its bounty.  And the flower may not know the benefit it has bestowed.  But the flower's not knowing its effect does not diminish the flower's beneficial effect.

You have many friends. Certainly here on this forum, including me.

And if not the answer, it is a darn good start.

SiouxRanger

This world is filled with the ignorant, the distracted, the uncaring, the self-satisfied, mightier-than-thou types, the bullies, the abusive, and the downright cruel.

It is difficult, once traumatized by one or more of them, to recognize that that they are in the minority, and further to recognize that once one has suffered the brunt of their assaults, that the vast majority of folks do not have those emotional failings and are your friends and do treat you kindly.

A police detective friend of mine once said that his dad advised him about my friend's work, "Son, don't go where there are bombs.."

Well, the lesson there is "bombs" aren't always physical.  There are emotional bombs.  And emotional bombs are much worse than physical bombs.  Physical bombs only explode once.  But emotional bombs, well, the victim can resurrect the effect of the emotional insult, time and again, and thereby the damage is repeatedly inflicted.

So, "don't go where there are bombs."  That is, don't give a second thought to prior insults.  Those insults are dead, and from " the ignorant, the distracted, the uncaring, the self-satisfied, mightier-than-thou types, the bullies, the abusive, and the downright cruel" and why would you let those folks control your life?

It is easy to move on-just shut that door.

Gee, seems like a threat to me.

But, probably more like an inexperienced scouter believing he is doing a proper job by working on merit badges so scouts advance, not realizing that advancement is secondary to learning leadership by doing. And that failures from which lessons are learned are more valuable than a series of successes where the scout has no clue why things succeeded.

And, in 25 years of attending virtually every troop meeting, never seen one where the entire meeting was entirely merit badge instruction.  And, in all that time, maybe only a dozen where there was any merit badge instruction at all.  Personal Fitness is amenable to group treatment as far as the various exercises.  All the scouts do their exercises and their performance recorded.

I am generally opposed to scouts earning a merit badge in a group.  Where they sit through an hour of class and walk away with a merit badge. I don't think that comes close to the how a merit badge is to be earned.

I do support group instruction where the scouts fill out their merit badge workbooks and THEN meet with a different counselor to actually counsel the scout on that badge.  The scout learns at the group session, but has to record what the scout learns and then discuss that knowledge with a different counselor.

I favor a unit having a Troop Meeting Agenda form, with the major parts of the meeting are identified on the form, eg, Opening, Activity 1-Training, Activity 2-campout prep., Activity 3-merit badge work, Announcements, SM Minute, Closing. And with a start time for each segment.  (And that format is one of many which are appropriate). But the Scouts should actually fill out the form in the PLC (for each meeting for the next month) and submit it/them to the SM for approval.

I'd suggest just keep asking questions of the procedure, provide several troop meeting agenda forms from the web.  Have the troop committee take up the matter, and see if the adults can get an agenda form before the scouts for them to use as guidance to plan their meetings.

5 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I used outdoor survival skills to help myself and my family survive the last round of freezing temperatures that hit south Texas that the state is clearly under prepared for despite it happening about every 10 years. (I notice native plants survived it, but plants from even further south didn't come back, so it's definitely a regular occurrence.)

We were among those who had power out the longest, but we had gear (my scout was the only kid in the whole neighborhood who was out playing in the snow having a great time) and knowledge. Our house leaks heat like a sieve despite our best efforts at improving energy efficiency, and the temperature inside the house was dropping about 1°C/hour. When the endpoint is -13, that's a problem. So, I set about making sure we were eating hot food (cooked outside not inside) and drinking hot drinks. Had to get water for both drinking and flushing also since our pipes froze. We all made it comfortably with full bellies, although it was scary for us adults.

Turns out, after talking to native Texan neighbors (not scouts), that most people here had no idea how relatively quickly you die from hypothermia, nor what the stages are. And a fair few of the ones who died took grills inside. When you're a scout from just below the Arctic Circle you absolutely know cold survival!

And that is why Scouting is so valuable.  Not lost in the woods in a blizzard, nor a survivor of a canoeing accident in Canada, or airplane crash in the Andes.  But just right here where I sit, in a house in South Texas. CRISIS!

The Program develops/instills knowledge, insight, judgment, and wisdom.

For reasons I do not understand, I have never seen an instructor mentioning WHY the information they present is important.

6 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I would have rather seen an actual female scout, but it is still better than the naked man following the boy scout statue.

In the middle, Eisenhower? And who would portray anyone or anything larger than him?

So, if it isn't Eisenhower, isn't the pinnacle of scouting an educated, benevolent, self-sufficient scout?

So, who are the other two?  Appearing to coddle the scout.

Did someone at National approve this?

Just now, SiouxRanger said:

If the "benefits" of "Scouting" are considered to be so valuable WHY would we even think to deny them to one-half the population of our kids? (females).

I have 4 grandchildren, the two oldest are girls.  I find no comfort in the idea that one of them may die because they could not make fire to warm themselves because they could not learn the skill that would save their life, being precluded from being a scout.

"Truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it. Mark Twain."

Twain facetiously makes my point.

So, why spread knowledge?

Because spreading ignorance kills people.

If the "benefits" of "Scouting" are considered to be so valuable WHY would we even think to deny them to one-half the population of our kids? (females).