SiouxRanger

On 8/16/2022 at 4:28 PM, IndyDad said:

I find the topic of Merit Badge Pamphlets a bit confusing from a BSA standpoint.

It is all about profit to National.

Merit Badge Pamphlets could be digitized and made available online for a pittance of the hardcopy version.

For some reason, National has not figured out how to cut its costs (no longer publishing hardcopy MB books) yet make merit badge pamphlets available online.

4 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Back to the heart of scouting.  Outings and social interactions. 

• Canoeing MB?  Go canoeing.  Hold the paddle.  During the trip, show a j-stroke and how to properly enter and exit the canoe.   Discuss the names and parts of the canoe.
• Bicycling MB?  Go biking and fix a tire and etc, etc.  
• Camping MB?  Go camping.  Work thru the requirement details in a one-on-one basis.  
• Citizen of the nation MB?  Have the conversations.  Go visit historical sites.  Have the discussions. 

MB pamphlets should be the fall back, but not the main path.  Scouting is not school with assigned text books and worksheets. 

MB pamphlets are better for the MBC than for the scout.  More like the teacher's answer guide.  

Well, to a degree.

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

I lean toward education first, experience second.  (Though I can see some advantage in letting Scouts attempt and struggle, THEN get instruction, but that seems inefficient to me.)

Having recently counseled a Scout for Chess merit badge, I worked through the Merit Badge Book to make sure I was covering all the topics and issues included in the MBadge requirements, AND explaining them in the terms as the BSA presented them.  The Merit Badge Book served as a checklist with explanation-and it was helpful.  For me, personally, I generally whup all comers, but being an instructor is another matter.  It is not about me, but presenting a topic comprehensively.  As an instructor, your responsibility is to cover all the major topics-to place concepts before the Scout with explanation and explaining their significance.  Putting them into practice is another matter, and I think it is essential that putting principles into practice is critical.  Which merit badges are high on application or low, I do not know.

From my last couple of meetings on a Council Committee, it appears that NCAP Standards are going to be applied to ALL Council and District events.  Camporees, OA events, Cub Day Camps, Weekend activities (fishing, shooting, climbing, orienteering weekends) at the local camp.  Some of these may already be subject to NCAP Standards. 

I am a fan of standards but I dropped out of NCAP Assessment Team participation as every camp we assessed, passed.  Even when not a single fire extinguisher could be found that was within certification ("We ordered those-should be here in a couple of weeks."  "Well, those Scouts just over there-they are here NOW.")  Or, all the tractors, including a bulldozer were neatly parked in an Adirondack shelter, pointed at the Health Lodge and Trading Post building-everyone neatly having their keys in their ignition.  Seriously?  "Well, it's a big hassle to lock up the keys and then have to retrieve them..."  "Well, how much of a hassle is it to rebuild the Health Lodge and get the bulldozer out of the lake?"  "Ever met a lawyer? They are an unpleasant lot, they are."

So, one point of the discussion was that every menu for a Council or District event will have to be approved by a licensed Dietician.  Even for weekend events.  One committee member commented, "Just how malnourished can you get in 3 or 4 meals?"

I am all on-board on health/safety issues:  first aid kits, emergency procedures (posted everywhere), fire extinguishers, medical personnel and first response equipment, etc.

A seasoned volunteer (old fogey) mentioned the new situation regarding NCAP  to me and commented that the new requirements will discourage volunteers from agreeing to manage events.  "Those volunteers already have enough on their plate in planning the event."

Our Council is discussing creating a whole bureaucracy to administer the application of NCAP standards to Council and District events.  The key here is that we need even MORE volunteers to administer the program.

Given the demographic financial dynamics, (Old Scouters retiring and dying off, and younger Scouters still working and not making a living wage, or overwhelmed with parenting), willing volunteers and active Scouters, in my Council are fading fast.

Just what I have seen, a few comments...

This is what seems to be coming.

13 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

We've done that too.  Always was a great event. 

• To avoid multiple setup/tear down, we chose an area with multiple activities / options ... then found a centrally located camp site (state park, national forest, private).   
• Scouts that still wanted the standard, every-year summer camp option.  They felt robbed if they could not repeat the same summer camp each year.  

Our "ideal" pattern was ... did not happen perfectly every year. 

• Jun/Jul/Aug - one month - troop standard summer camp commitment. 
• Jun/Jul/Aug - one month - patrol sized high adventure
• Jun/Jul/Aug - one month - troop low adventure summer camp ... similar to stated in previous post

Required lots of parental support and a healthy number of leaders. 

Having a "home base" also makes a lot of sense.

Takes a lot of adults to make it work.

Just to pass on a comment from a SM that caught me by surprise, but intriguing (and I paraphrase to get all the ideas in context):  "We did an alternative summer camp by camping at a number of different state parks and private camps/facilities.  We'd spend a day or two at each, then driving to the next.  The kids planned it all.  We brought the adult talent to do program, but the facilities were provided by the parks and private camps. Done this a number of years."

5 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

I suspect the answers to these questions...

I suspect it has more to do with 3 walnut shells, a pea, and some fancy sleight-of-hand.

5 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

The thing that has been most unclear to me...

I agree.  There seems to be some huge disconnect between the insurers' contractual obligations and insurance coverage for the COs.

It seems that the settling insurers' contributions to the settlement fund severs their contractual obligations to both the LCs and the COs.  It sounds like National essentially negotiated the amount of the insurers' contributions (apparently a sweet deal for the the larger insurers) and the amount of the LCs' contributions (who all appear to have gotten on board in a trice), leaving the COs pretty much in the position of "settle on National's terms, or face 100% of the liability for all the claims filed against you-without benefit of any insurance coverage."  (A "Hobson's choice.)

How it is that the COs would lose their insurance coverage on account of a deal struck by National with the insurers escapes me.

Therein lies basis of the COs' argument of a constitutional challenge, namely, that they have been deprived of their property (insurance coverage) without due compensation (some credit against an abuse award entered against it).

Were there some formula establishing such a credit that would be accorded a non-settling CO, which has lost its insurance coverage, then arguably the non-settling CO would be getting some measure of compensation for the loss of its insurance coverage.

But this scheme would only beg the question in that the Survivor claimant would have to seek some measure of compensation from the settlement trust for that portion of the judgment awarded the Survivor is protected by the credit to the non-settling CO.

By way of example, a Survivor sues a non-settling CO and a $10 million judgment is entered against the CO.  Of that, assume that the CO receives a $3 million credit, and pays $7 million.  The Survivor would seek compensation from the settlement trust for the $3 million credit, and presumably, that compensation would bear some relationship to the insurance coverage lost by the CO, and by necessity, as the insurers have received a huge discount on their liability due to settling, that compensation would be some fraction of the $3 million.

The infirmity of this scheme is that National's bankruptcy turns into a partial bankruptcy and a partial non-bankruptcy.  And that looks like an unworkable mess to me.

And that is the best I can do to make sense of this at this point.

Hopefully , someone has greater insight than me.

And we sold off 1/3 of our camp.

For over a million dollars.

Can we buy a CNC router to do decent signs rather than an old fogey with unsteady hands making suitable but pathetic signs, with a million dollars? (For a million dollars, I could learn to paint like Michelangelo).

Or buy new chisels and carving knives for Woodcarving merit badge (which I resharpen, but only years after I was told that they needed to be resharpened-cheap steel-$4 knives and chisels…)

Or pay to repair broken firearms?  (We still have more functioning firearms than non-operational, but closing in.)

Or to connect to the camp power grid to the generator which has stood unconnected for over 5 years?  Critically needed several years ago, which was worthless, being unconnected.

To supply the fishing and fly fishing merit badge area with supplies.  Maybe $1,000?

Replace the dining hall.

Build a new camp office.

On and on, and we'd still have at least $500,000 of the million plus at hand.

Yet we have none of these benefits.

My council has dumped over a million dollars into the billion dollar hole dug by BSA National's "Professionals."

I gotta admit, it takes a lot of people working diligently, to dig a billion dollar hole.

Clearly, it can be done, as National BSA has shown.

And I am refreshed knowing that my National dues went to support idiots.

And your Council?  Are you chipping in to fill that hole with your retirement dollars?

--Cincinnatus

(Not sure the last two posts constitute "outrage" but close.)

I spent yesterday routing signs to establish the new boundary for our scout camp-a camp of 50+ years now butchered by decisions made by…Fortune 50 Executives…NO, Fortune 500 Executives…NO, my barber, my caddie, my Uber driver, my pizza delivery person, my…NO, NO, NO.

BSA Professionals.

And how many of them are standing up to take credit?

And @InquisitiveScouter you are likely to be searching for scouting for a long time.

As I understand the "model," BSA professionals "manage" the volunteers who "present the program" to youth.

And therein lies the problem.

BSA professionals--THEIR activities, decisions, (all benefitting their salaries and pensions), BANKRUPTED the BSA.  (Not to mention the psychological carnage their efforts left in their wake.)

And those BSA professionals (as a class), through the bankruptcy process, want to continue to direct us volunteers on presenting the program to youth.

And why should we, the volunteers, even let the BSA professionals make this argument?

Where is the Volunteer Outrage?

Essentially, it is" "We ruined our program, bankrupted it, shamed you volunteers for being associated with a program based on high morals though having none ourselves, highly paid as we are, and expect you volunteers to "Carry On."

On 7/21/2022 at 9:22 AM, Eagle1993 said:

Let this sink in.  Purdue Pharma, complex case, had confirmation hearings in mid/late August 2021.  Judge Drain did a 5+ hour ruling approving the plan September 1.  Days after the last hearing.  That plan was rejected by district December 16.  So, 3.5 months to get a ruling from the bankruptcy judge, have that plan then reviewed by district and rejected by district.

The BSA plan is already at 3+ months post confirmation hearing and still no decision.  This seems very odd.  Perhaps a bankruptcy lawyer can explain how common it is for a judge to not rule for 3+ months after a confirmation hearing where other complex cases are able to go through both the judges ruling and district court review within that same time period.

The only reason I have heard that may make sense is if she heard something during the Purdue appeals court hearing (back in April) that gave her pause.  There could be other reasons, but I haven't heard a good explanation.  She definitely doesn't want this plan to be rejected and if the appeals court either rejects or approves Purdue, she could use that language as guidance on the BSA plan.  That should help avoid loss at appeal.

In any case, only she knows why it is taking this long.  Hopefully we hear an answer soon.  Claimants need to start the next steps of closure and BSA needs to implement their post bankruptcy plan.  

I stand by my post.  I could well be wrong.  But my marker stands firm as I posted.

On 7/12/2022 at 2:15 PM, MikeS72 said:

I do not usually respond to your posts as I see them a coming from a perspective that is decades old and may not fit well in today's wold.  

"When I wanted to understand what is happening today, I try to decide what will happen tomorrow; I look back, a page of history is worth a volume of logic."

           --Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., U.S. Associate Supreme Court Justice, New York Trust Co. v. Eisner (1921).

Many cultures respect, if not revere their elders and the perspective that they have.

Their perspective is considered "Wisdom."

Barry, I listen to you.

2 hours ago, swilliams said:

We finally did figure it out. The poles go on the inside of the tent, into a triangular pocket in the corner, then they get tied at the top.  No rain fly. 

This is the first time I’ve ever seen a tent with the poles on the inside. 

Well, I am with you-never have heard of that before, internal pockets with interior poles.  I'd think the doors must be large (wide) so as to accommodate inserting a pole into a corner pocket, then bending the balance of the pole through the door so as to be able to insert the other end of pole into the other pocket.  Sounds very awkward.  Two doors, or is this feat of contortionism conducted through a single door?

Installing the second pole might be easier, until the last few inches of stretch to get the second pole end into the final pocket.

I've had tents where the poles were inserted through sleeves on the outside of the tent chamber.  Then, tents seemed to go to poles affixed at tent corners, with plastic clips drawing the tent outward.  Pole sleeves were probably heavier than the clip system.

Some tent poles were capped with a rubber cap and inserted into a pocket.

Some tent poles were open ended and there was a metal pin at the corners that was inserted into the open-ended pole.

Considering that I started scout camping about 1964 or so, my 14 pound, 2 person Explorer Tent, (not counting the wooden cross spar and two A-Frame pole spars-there was a metal T-pole alternative), has resolved to a Big Agnes Copper Spur Ultra Lite of about 2 pounds 8 ounces (but just one person), things have dramatically changed.  My Big Agnes tent is a work of art.  (I hope this does not offend some advertising restriction, but if so, just delete what offends.)

To All--

After 25 years of senior Troop leadership, having been the "go to" adult having 3 sons, all Eagles, and having been a senior adult during their Cub Scout years.

I have seen my share of O/A elections in the troop.  All of them.  I am an OA member.

Time and again, far, far too many times, I have seen crossover scouts voting on OA membership on older scouts' O/A membership where the older scouts had sports obligations and were only present to meet their Scouting requirement obligations..

The younger scouts may have never met the older scouts.  Yet they could vote on the scouts' merits.

So, I am in favor of the Scoutmaster of having authority of ADDING scouts to the list of those elected to the OA.

And my unit has had many who earned Eagle but not elected to the OA.

And each of those Eagles were denied OA because children had control of the vote had no idea whom they were voting for  .

Many times parents ask me about WHY their child was not elected to the OA. Same dad, 2 sons , one nominated to a US Academy class.

"Not so good election rules,  '""Eye'd would support.

And thanks to all who have persevered through my last two posts.

On 7/19/2022 at 10:17 AM, fred8033 said:

I doubt complete death. 

The things one remembers with clarity (maybe?) from one's childhood.

In the 60's (19xx) when we decorated the family Christmas tree, we had spherical, glass ornaments.  Nothing special. But beautiful to me-reds, blues, greens, ...  Round balls.  All carefully stored away in their boxes of 12, cushioned by cardboard baffles to protect them in the off-season.

And then, at tree trimming, an ornament or two was entrusted to me (and my siblings) to hang on the tree, parents dutifully including us youngsters in the annual tradition.

Entrusted to us for about 30 seconds or so, until safely on the tree.

Even so, despite all reasonable care and parental guidance, an ornament or two would drop to the hardwood floor and shatter.

And what I remember most is that the ornaments would shatter into vicious-looking shards, many of them sized about half the circumference of the ornament. Bi-wedge-shaped, with sharp, pointed ends-laying on their backs with the pointed ends upward, just inviting a foot.  They looked wicked, and pieces went everywhere.  My parents admonished, "Don't move your feet-we have to sweep up the pieces."  (And, I, for one, did not want my feet to meet up with the long shards.  My main concern, even as a youngster was whether ALL of the pieces were swept up, or that I might find one a month later.)  (To this day, I NEVER go barefoot anywhere-maybe this is the reason???)

All the pieces were there, just no longer the mesmerizing, sparking ornament of a moment earlier.

And all the King's horses, and all the King's men…

On 7/19/2022 at 10:17 AM, fred8033 said:

A BSA only would be ugly.

All the pieces of the ornament were there, just no longer the mesmerizing, sparking ornament of (much, much) earlier.

And all the King's horses, and all the King's men…

On 7/19/2022 at 10:17 AM, fred8033 said:

because many councils would survive.

And maybe the shards can be formed into something resembling a prior National, but as a prior poster well pointed out in an excellent post (sorry for the non-atribution), a national organization provides significant benefits to "franchisee organizations."  And as the prior poster listed, I am convinced of his her points.

And a "collection of shards" the New National would be, and just what effort would it take for the New National Of Shards to extend its primacy over the "Movement USA Scouting" in areas where local councils went bankrupt?  And thereby re-establish the National of yore?

Well, numerous posters have noted National's stunning silence, (and corresponding local council silence) if not total abdication, of making any comment on the bankruptcy, and worse, offering any guidance to us volunteers, the folks who are supposed to be the folks actually running the program.  We are touted as the "heroes of the movement," "guided by the professionals."  Well, where are any of them?  National, local, what are we to do to "carry on?" It has been two and a half years that volunteers have waited for guidance.

A poster on another thread asked, "What is your unit looking forward to in the next year?"  (Paraphrasing.)

Last I looked, there were no replies.

I have pondered flippantly posting, "Getting our units' 2022 Rechartering documents back from Council by 12-21-2023."  (Note the year difference.) But that is outside what I consider a proper response under such desperate circumstances.  (I have previously posted that my unit started the re-chartering inquiry process in October 2021, in anticipation of this mess.  A Catholic Church sponsored units for 75 years or so.)

We have found another CO, in May, 2022, and even after all the paperwork was submitted changing to the new CO, several months ago, not a word from the Council.

Out Troop was allowed to attend summer camp which had been paid for, though warned "if not rechartered-you cannot attend."

Not used to Scout Councils THREATENING Scout Youth.

Kind.

Friendly.

Thrifty.

Trustworthy (which embodies most or all of them.)

And thanks, @fred8033. 

I have no practice experience in mass tort bankruptcies.  (As a percentage of lawyers in the country, it is a tiny percentage who do.)  But, I have persuaded myself that I have a working, plausible hypothesis of the litigation dynamics of this case.

1 hour ago, 1980Scouter said:

The BSA will most likely be out of money by then

I see legal issues in terms of "pressure."  ("Dynamics.")  Very little is absolute.  It is like chess.  A move is made.  The new placement of the piece poses a threat.  And threats are of different flavors, a clear and present threat of immediate chess board carnage, a potential threat, perhaps needing a move or two to raise the threat to clear and present status, suggestion of threat, and a veiled, foggy threat.  (My opponent made that move-perhaps sees something I don't-should I be concerned, or is it a mistake by my opponent?)  Threats, of whatever flavor draw attention, and have to be calculated into the player's plan.  Pressure.  A players next move is based on the player's evaluation of the summation of all of the threats on the board.  Chess is the Art Of Threat.

And so, litigation.  It is war, pure and simple.

I would think that the Judge is fully aware that BSA's diminishing cash reserves are an existential threat-delay alone could cause the destruction of BSA.  It is not an acceptable legal result that an entity is rendered defunct, not on the merits of the case, but on account of mere delay. 

2 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

If that is the case, how long will that take?

I find it difficult to accept the proposition that the Judge in the BSA case is awaiting a ruling on another case (unless the Judge is able to get inside information on the schedule of the release of that ruling).  For the BSA Judge to await the ruling in another case, essentially ties the schedule of the BSA case to the schedule of the other case.  And the BSA Judge has no control over the timing of the ruling on the other case.  So, if the BSA Judge is waiting on a ruling in the other case, the BSA Judge has surrendered control of the timing of the BSA case AND surrendered control over the issue of BSA's diminishing funds.  Judges don't like to surrender control-that is be "legally adrift."

2 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

Why not a status conference and explain the reason for the delay.

This is an excellent question.  Judges do not like to be appealed, as it means that one side, or both, feel that the Judge has made a legal error.  No one likes to be accused of making an error.  Judges want to craft rulings/opinions that are devoid of allegations of legal error.

However, I cannot envision a Judge holding a status conference and "explaining the reason for the delay."  A status conference on that basis would smack of stating, "We are lost in this mess-any idea how I should rule?"  Not only an admission of judicial chaos, but not would reopen and invite attorneys for the parties to rehash their respective positions once again-and we've heard all of that.  (Judge is speaking from position of weakness.)

I can envision the BSA Judge holding a status conference on the basis of, "We're narrowing our ruling-staff is working diligently-have any discussions amongst the parties moved to any significant changes in position that I should be aware of before my final ruling?  (Meaning: "I've got my ducks in a row-anything you folks want me to incorporate into my ruling that will be more in accord with the parties' current positions?")  (Judge is speaking from position of control.)

2 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

Maybe BSA would change the plan to BSA only to get this finished faster.

"Finished faster" might be the hope of some survivors, but I do not believe that "BSA only" is National's hope.  "BSA only" is death.  I do not think that National Scouting will survive the "BSA only" path.

2 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

There are serious doubts about third party releases and not the best idea to include them.

And this is the reason that "BSA only" is death.

If the local councils and chartering organizations are not given a discharge in bankruptcy, it appears that a flood of lawsuits will overwhelm them, and all will devolve into litigation chaos.  And a huge number of councils will file bankruptcy.

I still do not understand the role of the insurers in all of this-perhaps I am not thinking hard enough.

Third party bankruptcy discharges are critical to National BSA's survival.

Without them, I think all is lost.

And THE VOTE?  It will be interesting to see how that is worked into the ruling, if at all.  Given the inherent dilution of the vote of Survivors with legally viable claims, The Vote seems meaningless to me.  Well, other than to assure a positive vote for a BSA Plan that pays $3.500 to claimants with no demonstrable claim. The vote of Survivors being overwhelmed.

Trustworthy.

26 minutes ago, MisterH said:

"Why in the modern day are we so attached to symbols and traditions from another century when we have a rich scouting history of our own to draw upon? "

Folks seem to be drawn to older/ancient traditions. And such, foreign to their own traditions. Something mystical.

Scouting history is young and not well-promoted.

33 minutes ago, MisterH said:

Since many of the skills taught in scouting involve outdoor survival, it makes sense to acknowledge the lessons learned by the people who were surviving on this land for centuries before any of our ancestors arrived.

Not having reviewed merit badge requirements across the board regarding ancestral skills (skill by skill), perhaps every merit badge requirement should have designation of "ancestral skills compliance."

And survival skills added.

Having designed a primitive skills course for Summer camp, having been demolished by COVID, and sadly never to happen (my only chance to step beyond handling Troop paperwork), any suggestions on skills to be taught would be welcome.

I hope to pass on the program to others so that my work is not lost.

Thanks everyone.  Great ideas. I have passed them on to the leadership.

On 7/7/2022 at 8:20 AM, RememberSchiff said:

Topic re-opened for postings regarding OP: Post Confirmation Hearings, Judge ruling.

Off-topic posts will be removed or topic locked.  Feel free to start new topics as desired.

Thank you.

Omnibus Hearings:

August 24, 2022         11:00 AM

September 29, 2022   10:00AM

October 27, 2022         10:00AM

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/bfbf1a9c-a74b-48ac-ab60-c879ce336a00_10033.pdf

@Eagle1993

So, 3 Omnibus hearings set through 10-27-2022.

What does this mean?  Perhaps no final ruling expected until or after 10-27-2022?

My understanding of "omnibus" is that everything that any party wants to raise can be noticed up for hearing. Why would three omnibus hearings be set up front when perhaps all issues will be resolved at the first omnibus hearing?

Perhaps the judge envisions an iterative process whee issues are raised at one hearing, followed by private negotiations, progress or lack thereof reported at the second hearing, and so on.

Perhaps the Judge will announce a preliminary ruling, and seek comments from the parties, all perhaps to spur further negotiations amongst the parties.

One would think that ONE omnibus hearing would be sufficient, or one omnibus hearing setting, being continued to other dates as needed, but to dates following close on the initial setting-not with evenly spaced month gaps.

That there are three omnibus hearings spaced out over three months, considering the cash drain on National, seems rather strange to me.

Our current thought is to have a campout shakedown session at a troop meeting with every scout packing his pack for a tent campout.  We'd give them a list of suggested equipment.  Adults "in the know," regarding donated equipment, would be able to see who is most in need.  All the scouts are unknowingly participating in the gear review for donated gear (so no one is overlooked).  And the scouts would get a chance to experience a shakedown and gear review and pointers. Then parents would be approached with an offer of donated gear.

This is the best we have been able to concoct so that all of the scouts have an equal chance.

Our unit has recently received very high quality personal gear, 3 pristine Osprey 65L packs, for example, and us adults are at a loss to come up with a method to gift such donations to individual scouts who could use it.  Only a couple of senior adult leaders are aware of the donated gear at this point.  More gear is likely to come.  We are considering quietly investigating each scout's needs, and making the gifts privately.  Probably on a leader to parent basis.  Our hope is that this procedure would avoid a scout feeling like they have been overlooked or slighted.

Has anyone suggestions?  Thanks.

6 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Point

Ponil. (autocorrect!)

3 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

But they couldn't get vehicles to Ponil to extract us.

As in "impassable" to get to Point, or didn't want to send vehicles to Ponil?  Do you know which?

3 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Pack liners are more effective than pack covers.

Interesting comment.  As most packs aren't waterproof, the pack material will absorb water adding weight.

3 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

showers aren't cleaned frequently

I always took a portable sun shower.  2.4 oz, if I remember.  About 2 adult showers.  Took a shower every day.

In any event, one always remembers the tough campouts moreso than the cake walk campouts.

We've had a few folks post that their SM refused to allow OA elections.  I always thought it was the duty of the SM and assistant scout masters to make program opportunities available which comport with the program, the OA being among them.

If the scouts decide not to participate, so be it, but at least they self-select not to participate.

We've had the scouts decide not to attend district camporees, mainly because the theme was the same, year to year-cooking-sponsored by a unit which essentially had to fund the materials themselves and did so marginally.  It was all lecture-scouts simply watched and did not get to participate.  That played out for about 6 years. Our troop only attended the first year.

We haven't had resistance to participating in OA, but I can see how the ceremony may not engage the imaginations of modern scouts.

I do not know how uniform the OA ceremonies are from Lodge to Lodge. Some may be more engaging than others.

In my several year NCAP team involvement, I've seen great variability in the quality of facilities, equipment, and supplies.  Probably largely the result of budgetary constraints.

It is a tough business putting on a respectable summer camp program.  Only a strong cadre of returning staff make it work.

How does one indent a paragraph if that is even possible.