ThenNow

To me, this is effectively the beginning and the end of the discussion. Everything else is suited for academia, sociologists and other such important work. I thought this was all about boots on the ground. Why chase gnats with a tweezers when there is a large fish to fry before you (us?). Amen. -The End

I think he may have just been using your post as a jumping off point to give his comments. He's new and I recall doing that when I started posting. Heck, I still do it! To blather about something I've said before, it is also misleading to use the 85,000 number alone, since that's claimants and not single incidents of abuse. Other data may be noting incident when here some boys were abused repeatedly Some, tens and tens of times. If 10% of the claimants were abused 5 times each, that adds 42,000 incidents of abuse.

If this doesn't make it into my previous post, apologies. Again, I don't see a "constant questioning of the veracity of all sides," within the actual case. There is questioning of the sincerity and motive of the BSA by the TCC and Coalition, but that is based on facts, figures, filings and behaviors of the BSA and Ad Hoc Committee. In my view, that is completely legitimate and critical to their representation of all abuse survivors. If you refer to Tim Kosnoff, that's another matter and we sort of need to put him to one side unless the discussion is to focus on him specifically. My thoughts.

I understand, but I think it would be more helpful, if you want to discuss it, to point out exactly what you're referring to as "this type of accusation." I assume you're including things beyond this grasping allegation from Century, and would be happy to hear what they are. I don't know that this is in any way "abnormal," but that's a much broader conversation about litigation. Personally, I don't think or feel the TCC has been flinging around wild accusations of nefarious behavior. I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, though. On the forum, there have definitely been a lot of heaters thrown back and forth, not always with much value other than to combust on impact.

Yup. Peeled off to dial in the listen only observers and duplicative members of the same firms. Starting off with an exasperated judge may be a good thing for expediting some of these things. One can hope. That said, it is currently a live audio debacle.

Roger that. I've surfed around to see and view them, but it's great that this one will stay at the top. Thank you.

Sorry. My brain is racing as I continue waiting for access to the hearing. Now pushed to 11:15 ET. I think it's essentially that. "We (Century) gave you all this 'evidence' of problems and you did nothing. You must want them to remain for a reason or you would've supported us, right?!"

As I understood their argument, they allege the BSA is allowing false claims in hopes such alleged people jump at the chance to get the $1500 "take it and run" offer, thereby inducing them to vote for the BSA's plan. I believe that's it...

For anyone curious, it appears the court is having technical difficulties. I've been waiting in the green room for 40 minutes waiting for "someone from the court [to] connect [me] soon." I called the judge's chambers and they said IT is working on it. "Look your honor, we crashed the internet..."

I'm selecting this excerpt for no good reason, just to ask a question about the line of reasoning and argument. What is the point of this discussion? Is it to show that the BSA's incidence of child sexual abuse isn't all that bad, comparatively, regardless the viability of those comparisons? Even assuming they are viable? Is it to affirm YPT? Mild form self-exoneration or placation? I just don't get the point, relative to the Chapter 11 and the claims filed. To me, this all sounds like, "Hey, guys. I know it looks bad, but we're really not that bad. See! Everyone else is worse. Whew!" What am I missing?

I believe you're correct in your assumption and think that's a great idea. That said, I have no idea what a pin is. Is it the digital version of an old school bulletin board thumbtack with which we would put notices in the hallway?

Very good point. Hm. Hopefully others will continue to be attracted to the thread title and venture in. I really hope so bc it's one of the most gracious and humble posts supporting us I've seen over these months.

Thanks for all these references. I know there are others helped by your direction and I encourage them to go to the source documents, as well. Good luck to them with that approach. They have a passel of powerful states to take on, if they try it. I don't think it will go well with them, either in open water in the smaller pond of this case. I say, "Nonstarter," but they will swing at it anyway.

Thank you for posting. Truly. This is the best thing I've heard in a while and it has boosted my flagging spirit! You have made a brave move and, though I don't know you, I'm proud of you. I most sincerely hope for additional healing and forward progress. "Baby steps" and "Just for today," as they say.

The insurers have mentioned time-bar defenses and this chart from the BSA says something, too. As they have said publicly, the TCC is deeply committed to seeking awards for all survivors and I have confidence they will fight for that. As to the application of time-bars, we shall see. I have legal arguments against the application in my case...I will keep battling.

Line up in terms of numbers or subject to defenses and, thus, attempts to reduce awards due to the running of the statute(s)? Or, line up in terms of face value? Yes. Same with my state. I was working with the legislative sponsors prior to COVID locking them out of the capitol. We had planned a summer study session and were literally on the phone the day I was in Delaware for the TCC selection process. Now, it's back in limbo.

Would you consider reposting this on the main Chapter 11 Part 175 thread? Well, Part 3, but...Please feel invited to edit the mention of me, as I'm asking so all survivors who visit that thread will see it and no other reason. Your call, of course. Many may not find it here. Thanks, again.

Thank you. I am not afraid to say this made me cry. In addition to the DMs I've received and some of affirming commentary, this makes the effort to stand in amid the cyclic barrage(s) worth it. Again, you have my gratitude.

Again, "schools" vs one single organization is apples to turnips. Also, I'm sure you're aware of the variance and scale of difference in safety between public schools in Memphis and, say, those in Pleasanton, CA. Compare MI State with Elon University in NC. Which level of "school" do you mean? How many have on duty law enforcement and/or metal detectors? Our oldest son went to middle and high school in a pretty affluent counties and school districts and had them. That's a bit of a deterrent. These are simply not relevant or apt standards of comparison. As you also know, I'm sure, school counselors and teachers have a much higher rate of reporting than almost any other population group. Your statement may be "comforting" to recite, but not viably or objectively.

I'm not sure what the point is because: 1) Are we taking the world - with far different standards and imbedded cultures of abuse - as the "acceptable" baseline or reasonable element of comparison? 2) Are the legal systems in those countries set up in such a way as to have rigid standards and penalties - criminal and civil - for proven cases of abuse or has they had hundreds of years of "winking" at sexual abuse, even if their laws are similar to the US? The sex trade is rampant in some of these. 3) Are we comparing nations to one organization with both a history of abuse and the knowledge of that abuse? 4) Do these nations have reputations for and self-promotion of having higher standards of morality, honesty and integrity? I could go on, but these are good and relevant questions for the moment.

Based on this document, 24,308. Still, 2-3x the expected number at the outset. Also, this doesn't mean the other 82,458 somehow disappear from the creditor/claimant ledger or vaporize as if they didn't happen.

What do you mean by "if, legally"? BSA survivors? I would sign up for this. Sorry if this is getting back into improving YPT. Maybe I should go to that thread, if it's still holding together.

Good deal. Most may not be aware, but there are more than a few survivors who are active Scouters. What becomes of them? Imagine what this is like for them right now? Agreed. I said much the same thing a few times. Not sure that matters, but want to confirm my agreement. That would make it hard to believe in the sincerity of any resolve that comes our way. Maybe that's why the TCC consistently reminds us to "Remember, this is just a business transaction."

Why do you say that? Is it because the BSA would not want the air, ground and spirit of the woods further "contaminated" with tales of sexual abuse? I am not being attacking or snarky, it's just the only reason I can come up with in my little brain. That and, possibly, fear of bad press. I'm really trying to understand why someone might feel that way if it provided a measure of healing and some small recompense.

I'm going to look into this a bit more. Thanks for the info. Yes. The TCC acknowledged they recognize some assets are restricted. Oddly, the AHC cited to some of the camps the TCC excluded from available assets as ones the TCC sought to include. The AHC may need to pay closer attention.