ThenNow

If there are any Michigan Scouters here, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the AG's announcement. I have now read various reports and comments she's made and there is some lack of precision. I'm now not 100% sure if she's targeting the organization or individual abusers, per the claims filed. My friend just told me that BSA assured him the "incident details" of all claims from 1990 to date have been duly reported to law enforcement. That doesn't comport with the statement they made after the AG's announcement. At the least, the latter was artfully deceptive.

Oops. 2970.

Another article with a bit more info. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/michigan-attorney-general-state-police-investigating-sex-abuse-in-boy-scouts-of-america/ar-AAKBCht I find this interesting and questionable, based on my experience both weeks before and after filing my POC. I had several discussions with attorneys at headquarters and other functionaries handling survivor calls. What I was told more than once is they are making sure the alleged abusers named are on their internal list and reported to local law enforcement. When I said I had interacted with the local Sheriff's Dept in 2003-2004 about my abuser, they said, "since you've already notified law enforcement we don't need to do it." They didn't seem to mind it was 17-18 years ago. Are they really and truly, pinky swear reporting all the "incidents described in the bankruptcy claims" to law enforcement? That would be great, but I don't buy it. Who's doing that, the LCs? The hotline people? How many total claims across the state of MI? "The youth organization also said it requires all employees and volunteers to "promptly report any allegation or suspicion of abuse to law enforcement so that allegations can be investigated by experts," and asserted that incidents described in the claims filed in its bankruptcy case "have already been reported to local Michigan law enforcement."

So, technically, the lead should be the SE and Council President of MI Crossroads? If the LCs are 100% separate and distinct entities, why did they "defer to National"? Hmmm... If that is the play, they didn't watch her video or, if they did, don't understand the criminal investigation process and the nature of a joint operation like the one she's launched.

Who is the lead dog in MI BSA and who will be the front line on this?

Yup. This is the case: "The investigation was prompted by wide reports of alleged abuse that came to light during the national nonprofit's bankruptcy case, Attorney General Dana Nessel said in a video released by her office." https://www.crainsdetroit.com/news/michigan-ag-state-police-launch-joint-investigation-boy-scouts

This is the basis given in the press release. Do you know the reference or is it the bankruptcy? "...to obtain information surrounding sex abuse allegations that came to light during recent civil litigation"

Since I'm not familiar with the other cases or the Michigan AG's motive and politics, I'm very curious how/why this is happening in this time and space. From my experience in other businesses and top level insurance brokerage through my wife, these are often political animals looking for a crusade to win. I'd love the backstory, if anyone has insight. I recognize this could be a 100% justice motivated and that would be great. I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm glad it's being done, yet curious.

For my part, I concur. Buckle up, pack a lunch and bring a pee can.

Ok. I just cut and pasted this into my running journal of highly insightful things I wish I was wise enough to recognize and write eloquently. There is an entire book to write in that one paragraph. If written, I might be able to put it on my shelf with "Amusing Ourselves to Death," "Life: The Movie," and "Why We Don't Talk to Each Other Anymore."

That was a very cool thing to do with part of his settlement money.

I understand that statistically, but I doubt the AG has that data. It is more the impression of the thing, than the substance I was noting. Just wondering out loud. If the XYZ family has the most absentee days on the school roster on the hallway bulletin board, unless you know they're Irish Catholic farmers with 15 kids it looks dicey. Btw, I'm Irish Catholic from farm country so I can say that.

I wonder if seeing Michigan Crossroads at the top of the LC list for most claims caught their attention or if this has been long bubblin' in the percolator.

Going to circle back on this. (Smirk and a nod to Jen Psaki.) Can any of you BSA historians help me with this? I am very curious. I would also like to get a sense if this will be a line item/funded project into the future, assuming that future exists, of course. Many thanks!

My friend is not an attorney, but his profession is to watch major business-related machinations with hawk eyes. He's deep into the BSA case from all angles. I'll ask what he thinks.

From a friend of mine. (Sorry for the large font!) “Whoa! This is new and significant...” https://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-359--560927--,00.html

How remote is the chance of getting the Annual Charter Agreement for the 1970's?

What do you mean by this? Some are sexual abuse and others not and/or some more severe than others. I'm just asking not poking.

I can't say for sure, but I have seen other statements like that. Personally and from experience, I take that to mean what you have heard me and a few other men say in this thread and others (YPT, "psycho-babble, etc.) The claim process and waiting game that started February 18, 2020 has been incredible difficult for many if not most of us. It has rekindled dark memories and has dragged many of us down. If I didn't mention it, I ended up in the ER with chest pains at one point. Thankfully, not another heart attack. For many of us, it has been absolutely brutal, reminiscent of the abuse. I am betting that's what he meant.

Is what follows this paragraph quoted from the book? If so, may I have a citation, please?

So, if BSA or an LC has knowledge of abuse, is it their duty to advise the CO? I’ve learned here that the COs have a much more active role and measure of oversight than I ever saw with ours. Is it imputed, regardless their actual knowledge or involvement?

I'm relatively new to the BSA CSA litigation arena and will further expose my ignorance. Of the cases that have been brought and resolved, whether award or settlement, were all, some or none of them Doe v. both BSA and LC as jointly and severally liable parties?

So, the SE manages the DEs. What are the layers of management overseeing the SEs?

What do you mean by this, since I’m not familiar with the historic BSA model? Many boards have pay to play seats. Is that not typically done throughout Scouting to attract high-level donors?

So, a question for any and all. It seems we mostly discuss abusers as BSA volunteers of one sort or another. Hypothetically, does your view, opinion or feeling change if the abuser was a DE or SE? Technically and legally, it's of no great impact. I'm asking about your perspective of abuse by an Executive from your vantage point as volunteer and/or parent Scouters. You could speak to liability or whatever you think it relevant. I'm curious and appreciate your thoughts.