ThenNow

Though I’m frequently wrong, but never in doubt, I believe it was suggested to me by an insider that BSA’s goal is to loop in all claims that arose/arise prior to discharge. As it was relayed, that was part of discussions. I haven’t seen such a provision. Love to receive a confirmation or slap down.

I’m truly sorry for that and what you lost, physically and things dear to your heart. That’s awful. What was the reporting and disciplinary process?

Yes. My point in the hypothetical was not to request a generalization, rather a specific response to a senario. You know the guy. He was in you Unit or LC or at a camp you attended or staffed. Now, you know some horrible stuff you and everyone in your LC Cone of Silence Brigade believes is true. And, he’s beyond the reach of the law. Does that change your feeling or reaction? Some guys who are reading those POCs will confront that exact scenario.

A bunch of us are old guys and our abusers are dead or lost in life’s shuffle. This doesn’t apply and needs to be factored in when you respond to his comments. Right. That’s why I, anyway, have moved on to the substance of our reaction and am not trying to analyze that case. And, as I said, I aim to find out what happened. Yes, as I said before.

Tried that. They wouldn’t touch it without something “official.” Too much exposure if it turns out to be at all iffy or fabricated. Dandy defamation law suit in the making. It’s very different when you initiate, as I did, however futile. As I said earlier, totally different when you’re in an assumed “confidential”situation like this and someone else launches it. I’m not sure how that can/could be handled. I agree with Tim Kosnoff that someone needs to step in and clarify for the sake of all victim claimants. I think its importance can’t be overstated, at least from my crappy antique Windsor chair. Hm. Not sure of the latter. I think #metoo has become extremely problematic. Frankly, I’ve viewed it rise and have commented to many in my circle that the “celebritization” (I that new non-word) of sexual abuse, depression, PTSD has done tons of damage. I would love to delve further into that topic, including how it could be done differently. In order: 1) The life impact pain, which is enormous, often is rampaging when before the confrontation. For me, the greatest emotional/psychological cratering came after it revealed itself when my dad died and my boys asked to join Scouting. I utterly fell apart. 2) For sure and, for boys abused by men, multiply by some X factor, not sure what it is. You’ve heard lots of this here. 3) Yes, in part, but for me not primarily. I was locked up and down, coming to dissociate and act normal in all other contexts, even immediately after. Hero worship, the lure of feeling “special” and getting more attention can be huge during extended periods of abuse. 3) You mean in the form of “prosecution” by public humiliation? If so, doing the same to my abuser isn’t going to put mine to rest. It will feel like a measure of justice, but that won’t heal it. That’s going to go on for a long time. Remember, there is potentially an unspeakable shame in admitting all this publicly. That’s a large part of the reaction you’re seeing from several of us. Hope that helps. Sorry for any typos. Moving fast today.

Badge of honor, my friend. Badge of honor.

My avoidance of him, that time, was in deference to my family and the realization that harming him would most likely land me in prison. Another time, I was in my home town again and met some high school “friends” (only two really qualify) at a dive bar. I moved away when I was 18 so had been gone for 20+ years. I was not drinking at the time. When I walked in and looked over to the bar, there sat two of my ASMs. We recognized each other immediately. I said, “Hey,” politely riding an immediate adrenaline surge, on high alert. The main ASM, who I liked very much but have allowed myself to admit had to have been complicit in nearly everything, looked at me and said, “__________” (SM) will be here in a few minutes.” I blurted out, “Good. Tell him I’m looking for him.” He never showed. I assume they called him. For what’s it’s worth, a was a late bloomer and smaller kid up until junior/senior year of high school. When I was in town for that particular reunion some of the fat and out of shapes jocks joked I should be voted, “Most likely to have taken steroids.” I didn’t look like a pretty young boy any more. It’s hard to explain what’s like knowing “that person” is skulking around on the planet, living their life and going on their merry way. I realize, he may have been and may be a tortured individual. I never saw it. Only slightly more than 10 years my senior, I have watched from a distance as he enjoys his retirement, sees the grandkids, fishes, hangs out with the boys, fishes and hunts and (wait for it) organizes his photos from Scouting to selectively post on his Fb page. Yours truly is featured prominently at about age 13. I’m not kidding. His life appears to have been far, far, far more stable and normal than mine. So you don’t think me some sort of masochist, I only looked at his Fb in preparation for my POC and a few times previous when writing about my life and experience.

For the record, this is what elicited my laughing man emoji.

I’m asking you guys personally. He’s not in Scouting anymore. He’s untouchable under the law…

You messin’ with me? Assuming not, ‘85 F-150. Beautiful dark blue and white. It was my dad’s. I bought it from my mom when he died.

Very, very few were already reported or listed, for that very reason. I got a Saturday night hypothetical for youz guys. You’re a member of the LC Cone of Silence Brigade. You’re tasked with going through your share of a couple hundred Proofs of Claim. In your reading, you discover terrible things, credibly alleged, about a guy you go to church with or see at the bar or is a part of your hunting club. He abused more than one boy, you find. The SoL had run on all the claims. What do you do? How do you feel? How do you find yourself around him? Hm? I saw my abuser in my hometown once when I was a grown a** man. I walked into a coffee shop, got in line, and there he was a few people in front of me. I froze between pissing myself and going to my truck to get the bat I kept behind the seat. I talked myself into just waiting for him to leave and resisted the temptation to do what I wanted to do.

Wouldn’t you know. “Pride cometh before the fall.” I typed a comma instead of a period. D-Oh!

Fair warning. I have been granted special dispensation by the court to be a participating party in this process. I am limited to the Comma Committee. Trust me, it will take weeks. I plan to leave no comma misplaced, no comma conspicuous by its absence and no comma that I don’t want just because I don’t like the point being made. JUST KIDDING. I AM NOT ON ANYTHING, other than this stupid, hard, dinky Windsor chair my wife substituted while I’m suffering the two-year wait time on new breakfast table chairs.

Back to the case that kicked off this thread, I believe Auburn, AL is in the Chattahoochee Council, yes? If so, the list of claims shows 150 implicating it independently and 3 “shared” with Greater Alabama Council. I was thinking it may be a small number than that and very easy to work through and see the more recent claims, identify anyone notable, as here. I would like to know if LCs are reviewing all of their claims as a matter of course. Anyone know? PS - This is a Scouter site, yes? I need to report that I am baffled and troubled by the fact that topics are segregated by being designated “threads.” Shouldn’t you/we be calling them “binder twines”? There. Got that off my chest. Carry on...

From my view, given no attorney updates (other than when I talk to myself which is frequently), the TCC has done a great job of tying to keep us advised. Sometimes, it can only be after the fact when things emerge from the mediation cones of silence or happen in court. That’s a huge challenge for many of us; being behind the information curve. What I’ve heard here is a number of firms, AIS and others, haven’t been so hot communicating with clients, especially in response to personal inquiries. That is awful. No attorney should get 40-50% if they’re not doing their job. Me, too. Hindsight is 20/20, but it would have been nice for there to have been a more obvious, clear and robust explanation of the process within the POC. Unfortunately, guys who never really saw the document and/or processed through a call center would never have seen it or be told about it anyway. I hate that.

Ok. Obviously not done for the night. Don’t disagree and hopefully you didn’t think I was saying otherwise. I’m trying to point out the very hybrid, unique situation this is. We’re not talking about a direct allegation to a “reporter” or observed suspicious behavior. These are, most likely, detailed retellings of a man’s abuse for the specific purpose of receiving compensation, with some expectation of great discretion, confidentiality (admittedly qualified) and the promise of notice pre-disclosure. The difference couldn’t be too much greater.

Actually, I reported my head was throbbing and I was fighting off slumber. Furthermore, my wife has no interest in talking about BSA insurance matters after cursory briefings and hearing recaps. Knowing Chubb is a/the major player, she tells me, “Well, good luck,” and rolls her eyes.

Last note for the night, I think. What is difficult for non-victims to viscerally and deeply understand is this. Finding out about even the prospect of our Proof of Claim being used by others, without any due notice, is a massive trigger. When I read the article, it lit a short fuse. That fuse led to the implosion that occurs when I am confronted, yet again, with the falling, falling, falling into panic and despair that besets me when control is taken from me without my permission. Out of control of my body, my already fragile identity, my information and my fate. Everyone feels insecure when not in control. We feel the earth tremble, the ground open up beneath us and the seemingly inevitable slide toward dark places.

manda.pdf

Victims, generally, yes. As to the individual who put their blood and guts on the line to create the jumping off point for law enforcement? Maybe not so much if there is no notice, warning and, “Hey, you might want to be aware...” I know you can’t understand, and that’s got to be that (for me).

Yes. Ok. I see it and I now recall. It’s at the very end of an 8-line paragraph, comprising the totality of “PART I: Confidentiality.” Since I previously reported all this crap to law enforcement in 2003 and BSA in 2008, it wasn’t an issue for me. HOWEVER, we were told there would be due Notice of Designation of Additional Permitted Parties in the event any other previously unnamed party requested and was being granted access to our Proofs of Claim. If they’re forwarding to law enforcement, that should trigger the notice requirement. I know, I know. They are using an exception for expediency/existent circumstances or some such. Perhaps the victims received such notice? In ANY case, we deserve to be advised if this is happening with our POC. Right?

Because I’m a forum ‘how to’ dork, this is da link (I think):

I’m trying to figure out exactly what the H. E. Double Hockey Sticks is going on. (Btw, this conversation has been banished to the basement. I know, right? I guess I’ll see you there. Forgot what it’s called..)

I hereby lodge my official request for a new thread to talk about BSA and CO insurance or lack thereof. My head is throbbing trying to keep up. My wife’s undergraduate degree is from the top Risk Management & Insurance college in the nation. She always told me her texts were a great cure for insomnia. 😬 Not so here, but it is getting a bit hyper-focused and specialized. My view. Maybe I don’t mind table tennis that much after all?

I’ve also spent way too much time pondering the implications of all this hooey on E&O and D&O at all related levels. If this has been discussed, I’d love to be pushed toward the relevant discussion, regardless the necessity to play table tennis or other such.