Armymutt

The no alcohol thing threw a wrench into my plans at the last B&G. At home, we parboil our brats in beer before grilling them. I had several cans of Bud on the counter ready to go and then realized that we couldn't have alcohol at Scouting events. I have a mom that smokes and I had to remind her several times about smoking on the Cuboree. I can't wait for her daughter to turn 11. She's nice, but I really hate having to babysit 30-somethings.

There's a difference between what is and what it was supposed to be. The 1992 OA Handbook does not identify this among the purposes of the Order. Three out of the four focus on camping. The fourth focuses on leadership in cheerful service. Somewhere along the way, the purpose got muddled and then diluted. Probably why our attendance is so low and our officers are in their position because they were the only ones who happened to show up that night. To bring this back around to the topic, the OA is an example of an option for youth that started locally and grew nationally. The problem today is that there is little room for a Scout to stretch their wings and get creative. Too many helicopter leaders produced by too many rules that came about from a too litigious society. My SM in the late 80s had been in the troop since 1932. His rule was essentially do what you want, but don't get hurt. He put it on us to take responsibility for our safety. That meant sending someone down to check the depth of the water before we jumped off the cliffs. That meant learning how to tie a Swiss seat and snap in correctly before rappelling down a rock in the state park. The older Scouts looked out for the younger Scouts, and when the "older Scouts" happened to be 8th graders, he and the ASM (in the troop since 1955) stepped in to train that Scout. They forced us to be leaders at an early age, including risk assessment. There's a reason they weren't too concerned when my buddy and I were riding a log down a swollen river. We had a contingency plan and executed it without panic.

I'm confused on the issue. Are you talking about Pack Meetings or the B&G? For our Pack Meetings, we're still trying to find our stride. Neither I nor the ACM are extroverts, so we aren't big on singing and dancing. I try to assign each den a role - usually a skit. We only have the building for the hour, so we have to factor in set-up and tear down. I usually find a program online, modify it to suit me, and roll with it. Our B&G last year was a cook out at a local park. We figured out what was needed, created a spreadsheet and asked everyone to contribute. Did not go over well - some contributed a bottle of ketchup while other brought multiple packages of bratwurst. Some families RSVPd for 2 people and shoed up with 6. This year, we approached it differently. While the kids were making gingerbread houses at the December pack meeting, we pulled the parents together and told them that we needed a chair for the B&G and one for the PWD. No volunteers, no events. We now have volunteers. Our B&G will be on a Saturday around lunch. No idea what it will look like because we don't have a legacy to match it against.

How do we tie this in with Citizenship in Society, being the only merit badge with no pamphlet, requires a MBC that has attended special training, and can't be conducted in a large group?

I view this thing from the spirit of it. The intent is to avoid a situation that puts youth at risk. Since I turned 18 at the start of my senior year, if such a rule existed back then, I would technically be unable to be on my school sports teams, room with my buddy in the Hague when we went for model UN, or meet up with him at the Scout hut to get things ready for a campout. I'm sure the school would not let me have my own hotel room simply because BSA said so. These days, it's the same thing. One of my Tigers came over to play with my daughter while my son stayed to play with her brother. I made hot chocolate for them and let them go do whatever it is that Kindergarten/1st grade girls do. My wife came home about 10 minutes later. I guess technically, I was in violation, but then I'm in violation every school day. I transport all 4 kids to school and the 1st grader girl or her brother are always the last to exit the vehicle. For a brief second or two, we are alone in the car. According to the G2SS, this is a violation. I guess I should dismount the vehicle so that we are not alone at all, but it's impractical.

To me, it's less of a concern about girls taking charge than it is having to live with an extension of high school into Scouting. My experience was that the moment girls factored into the mix, the dynamics changed in the troop. Guys were suddenly showing off, picking on other kids, etc. We ran into co-ed Italian and Norwegian troops at Kandersteg and this happened. Same thing when the sister of one of the Scouts in my troop came with us to a water park. One of the guys had a crush on her at school, and he started being a dick to others when she was there. Maybe the 21st century male is different, but I doubt it.

I try to teach mine to use natural sources of tinder and we use the flame wands to light that. My favorite is reindeer moss, which grows well on the edges of the pine forests here. Our fire rings are very deep and very small, which makes it really awkward trying to use much else to start a fire. Not enough enough room to do decent DO cooking without pulling coals out of the fire ring. Then there was that one dad in another pack we got jammed in with during Cuboree. He had something that looked like an incendiary grenade. I try to teach mine to make small fires.

What are you using, flint and steel? 9V battery and steel wool?

No one has been able to answer the question of why BSA thinks that Scouts today are less capable than their peers 100 years ago. The organization would have died out if the same rules were in place, yet this seems of little consequence. Why can't a patrol go camping? Page 18 of the 9th edition of the Boy Scout Handbook says, "The goal of a patrol should be to be so well trained in camping that it can take off on its own overnights." Why are we assuming youth have become enfeebled in the past 36 years?

I'm hoping that troops like that still exist when my kids are old enough. Lots of new people to the program and are timid about it. I told our chapter chief last night about a game we used to play - star gazers. Sort of a quiet duck duck goose, except the guy walking around had a belt and would drop it into someone hands. They then started whipping the guy to their right, chasing him around the circle. Once he got back, it was repeated.

While working on the two projects I mentioned earlier this semester, I am developing a plan for expanding Scouting into underserved areas. In doing so, I have been reading a lot about youth programs in general and Scouting in particular. One thing stood out to me. Scouting survived WWI because the PLCs took over and ran the units while the adults were off at war. During Desert Storm, my troop was in the same situation. Our adult leaders were fighter pilots or ground crew and deployed. That left me and another 16 y/o to run the troop for 8 months. According to the G2SS, we were not allowed to meet. I understand the necessity in normal times, but there needs to be some flexibility built in and it needs to be stated.

Literally in the Cub Scouts forum.

Yeah, Roundtable is kind of boring. I get boring lectures all day. Don't really want to do it for fun. It's not so much a Man Park. It's a combo in-person and Zoom, and the presenter always is on Zoom. Ever try to sit in a big room and listen to someone lecture from their home computer to a laptop projected on a screen? Shoot me! At this point I go to try to figure out who is in our district so I can put faces with names.

Is this hypothetical unit a Pack or a Troop? A Pack is far more reliant on parental involvement. A Troop can work with very few. For a Troop, I would look at the 1920s. How did it work then? Why the focus on a district? My first Troop as a kid (well, second, but because the first sucked) basically ignored the district and council. It was first chartered in 1933 and ran like a pirate ship. Probably still does. I never attended a camporee or council summer camp with them. Until they bought some land in southern MO in the 60s, they would pack up the boys in a bus, have a parent drive it while an older boy drove his dad's car with a boat behind it, and headed for Kentucky Lake. They spent a week on the shore, canoeing, motorboating, waterskiing, fishing, etc. They even had a "water carnival" consisting of stuff I don't know about beyond a greased watermelon. In my time, we went to the camp in southern MO. It's about 17 acres total. We did motorboating, water skiing, pioneering, a float trip, visited state parks, fished, played games, had campfires, etc. We didn't need expensive council camps. If a boy didn't have his own tent, the troop had canvas ones from the 70s. We cooked on stoves by patrol most days. The menu was predetermined by the PLC, SM, and ASM - probably cost us about $20 for the week. None of us could drive. The SPL was a freshman. There were 8 Scouts and we piled in the ASM's RAM 1500 van. It was far more magical and impressive to me than any other summer camp I've been to, other than Philmont. That includes a week in Switzerland at Kandersteg. Loved it so much that I went back two additional summer when I returned home from England after high school. Would have gone more, but my parents moved to FL and I didn't have a place to stay in IL during the summer. The point of this tale is that Scouting can be done on the cheap, and without the district. Summer camp may not be a merit badge factory, but the boys will have fun. Getting around the inexperienced leaders is tough. A humble leader would be able to learn from an experienced older Scout and the available material. This might be a good thing to bring to the OA. Ask the Scouts and adults to come help and serve as coaches and mentors. I'm going to try to put this into practice next year, hopefully. My plan is to start slowly and avoid the DE and commissioner until I really need them. They are too motivated and dead set on perfection.

If the parent doesn't attend, who takes care of their Cub Scout? We aren't a drop off Pack.

Are permission slips required when parents are attending an event? Seems redundant. I can't imagine a parent taking their Scout someplace and then saying that they are not allowed to be there.

I haven't experienced this issue. About the closest is skipping Scouts for another activity. I caused a bit of an uproar at our University of Scouting. A class was discussion bending the Scouting schedule around everything else in order to retain Scouts. When it was done, I asked why we would sell Scouting as the lowest priority activity. People were shocked. I pointed out that no one in their 40s mentions that they were a high school quarterback. Even the guys who played in college aren't sticking it on their resume 20 years down the line. Eagle Scouts proudly wear t-shirts, tie tacks, label pins, etc. Since the Army began interviewing officers for positions, I was told by a commander that she will always give an interview to an Eagle Scout. Reminds me that I need to add it to my resume. My message is that Scouts is so much more than all the other activities. It is a program and a way of life that will carry you forward. Those who were Scouts get it. The rest just need to get on board.

I think their communications are in person at the meetings. I'm busy being a Lion parent for my daughter at the same time. When it's not my turn to lead, I try to get over there and find out what is going on. They aren't good about returning emails or text messages either.

Our Webelos den has a campout planned at our church - if they put it on the calendar. I'm not sure if they are having parents attend. For some reason, they don't feel it is necessary to discuss these things with the Cubmaster.

We don't allow drop offs at any rank, unless it's really necessary, like retrieving a sibling from an activity down the road. We had one family who thought Scouts would be a date night for them. When the meeting could last 30 minutes to an hour, you're not going to get much of a date out of it. The best chance would be to run to the gas station and microwave a burrito.

That's the thing. Where do you draw the line between parent observation and parent interaction? If a parent can observe any event, to me that means they would have to not engage with the Scouts, unless there was a problem. I don't know of any parents who would go on a camping trip, stay off by themselves, and not get involved, whether it's helping set up camp, eating dinner with the troop, etc.

I wish we had 2 per chapter. At our Fall Fellowship, we were lucky to assemble 3 pre-Ordeal teams and 2 Ordeal teams. One was chapter pure, the other was a mix of 3. They each did three Ordeal ceremonies that night. We were all exhausted by the third one, and the quality suffered. At this point, I have one ceremonialist who shows up at chapter meetings, but he's a senior. I'm recruiting hard, but no one is biting. They don't seem to understand that if there are no ceremonialists, there are no ceremonies, and thus, no inductions.

I'm on the fence about WB. What put me on the fence was having a beading ceremony during our den meetings night that took about 30 minutes. The kids - K through 3rd grade - had no idea what was going on, other than some adult stranger was giving a den leader a neckerchief and talking a lot. They were bored. Violated the Keep it Fun principle. If I did WB, I would do the ceremony at an adult event. I like to keep the program youth focused. About the only thing I would want to do related to adults is to hand out square knots with a quick round of applause at the end of an awards ceremony. I make it a point to thank the adults regularly anyway. It's a habit I carry over from work, where I thank my team for their hard work every few days.

I don't know how we looked in 2019. We joined in October 2020. After crossover and moving season (Army area), we had 3 active Cubs and 4 semi- to inactive Cubs by August. We now have 20 currently registered and I'm waiting on applications for 2 more. Our Webelos den has 7, Bear has 1 inactive and probably won't recharter, Wolf has 7 with 2 on the way, Tiger has 3, and Lion has 2. One of the kids was a transfer from another pack - he moved across town. The rest came from FB bombardment, 1 elementary school visit, recruiting/badgering my wife's friend, and the rest - no idea.

We talk a lot about youth protection from the adult side and how it isn't as good as it could be, but I think on the youth side, it's pretty good. I've watched the Lion and Tiger version so far, and the videos do a good job of sensitizing kids to what is bad. Just like the rest of Scouting, it's going to take parental involvement in reinforcing the idea that it is ok to tell on an adult for doing something bad or that makes a kid uncomfortable. We review the difference between secrets and surprises, and do our best to use the terms appropriately. Between this and the fact that my kids are the biggest narcs, I feel pretty safe with them in Scouting.