CalicoPenn

If you read further in that same document you'll come to this bit on page 39, it's the bsa sweet 16. The first part says:

 

Qualified Supervision. Every BSA activity should be supervised by a conscientious adult who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children and youth in his or her care. The supervisor should be sufficiently trained, experienced, and skilled in the activity to be confident of his or her ability to lead and teach the necessary skills and to respond effectively in the event of an emergency. Field knowledge of all applicable BSA standards and a commitment to implement and follow BSA policy and procedures are essential parts of the supervisor’s qualifications.

Note the wording used:  Every BSA activity SHOULD be supervised.  It does not say must.  It does not say shall.  It says should.  Why?  Because the BSA knows that there will be times when a "BSA Activity" is NOT supervised by an adult and they would have no defense if a Patrol decided to go play Frisbee golf during a Patrol meeting (for example) without an adult tagging along and someone got hurt if they required supervision by saying shall or must.  I'll remind everyone again - these guidelines, procedures, rules, and policies are designed to do one thing, and one thing only - protect the corporation that is the BSA. 

Note that it also states what they believe qualified means.  Want to argue that should means shall or must?  Then I'll counter argue that if a Troop sends a committee member that has never built a birdhouse to supervise an Eagle Scout project that involves building park benches, they are not sending a qualified adult.  But that's not what any of this is about.  It's about doing the best you can without reading more in to what is written than what is written.  I think this is why we get so many questions and stories about what units think are not allowed, or that they must do - when there is nothing in writing that backs those contentions up.

I don't know of many (for that matter any) Eagle Scout service project where at least one adult from the Troop is present - even if it's just the parent.  The BSA says in their flyer to beneficiaries that the Troop will provide an adult to keep an eye on things.  Note that they said adult - not leader - not committee member - adult.  Guess who counts as a Troop adult even if they aren't registered.....a parent.  Good ole Mom or Dad is an adult and though not registered, is still affiliated with the Troop.  At least in most of the Troops I've ever worked with - if you accept a non-registered parent as a driver to and from outings, I don't know how you could possibly deny that they are an adult for the Troop in the case of an Eagle Scout project.

To answer the original poster - you shouldn't be held up by a committee member's availability - if the project is scheduled for a certain Saturday and the Troop is unable to have a Committee Member, then as long as you are there, that should be more than acceptable - talk to the Scoutmaster about it if need be.

 

 

I would like to know why there were 314 school openings.

Just like public school districts, Catholic schools (and other private schools) are not immune to demographic changes or to issues of building maintenance. 

Demographically, you have fewer people every year identifying themselves as religious or as part of a specific religious community.  Organized religions, particularly the more traditional churches like the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. are seeing their attendance drop as people decide that while faith may be important to them, church isn't or members decide to go to the mega-community-church down the road that is so popular (and doesn't have a school).  That's only part of the story.  Another demographic part of the story is changing neighborhoods.  School age populations can shift neighborhoods - it happens with public schools too - most of the new students might come from the new housing developments at the edge of town while the central neighborhood that has the school becomes mostly childless.  Sometimes you end up closing that school and building a new one where the students are. 

Sometimes, the school building itself is just too old to be useful as a school anymore.  Sometimes it's better to replace an old school with a more modern school if the roof needs to be replaced and its going to cost you $1.5 million to do so - maybe it makes no sense on the face of it to spend $8-10 million on a new school when you would only spend $1.5 million to re-roof it but sometimes its like an old car.  Replace an alternator this year may not be a bad thing as long as it's the only part you're replacing and alternator this month, brakes the next month, shocks the next month it might be better to just trade it in and get something newer.  You need to evaluate the future not just the now - if I think I'm going to have to replace the roof this year, and the HVAC system next year, and the plumbing system the next year - it may be best to bite the bullet and just replace the building.  So if that happens - you have a school opening.

So nope - seeing that there were 314 school openings the same year there were more than 1,600 closings just doesn't surprise me.

http://www.girlscoutsaz.org/en/about-our-council/news/2015/pope_francis_meets_w.html

Thanks!!

Matt brings up a good point - you son has been a Scout since he was 11 - assuming he's been to at least one long-term summer camp, are you sure that he doesn't have the 21 days in camping already?  I'd start adding the numbers up from when he started camping (the requirements also does not say "camp 21 days and nights since starting work on the Merit badge).  There is a good chance he's already met that requirement.

You should also contact the Council Service Center and ask to speak with the registrar to double check that the Scoutmaster is ALSO registered as a Merit Badge Counselor.  While adult leaders like Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters can also serve as Merit Badge Counselors, they have to double register as Merit Badge Counselor - they can't just decide that they will counsel the merit badge for the Troop.  I've come across a few instances where Troop Leaders counseled and signed off on merit badges only to have Eagle Applications bounce back from National or Council because the person who signed off on a required merit badge wasn't a registered counselor - that can lead to huge complications.  Just quietly double-check and if they come back and say he's not registered as a Merit Badge Counselor, get you son to a registered counselor asap (or get the Scoutmaster to register asap).

I wish I could find it but someone commenting on this story in a newspaper found and posted a picture of Pope Francis greeting US Girl Scout leaders with a big smile on his face.

Tiger,

In addition to moving on (probably best, as irksome as it is), there are a few more things that should be done.

You have a Pack Treasurer now - great!  Going forward it is no longer YOUR responsibility to keep track of pack funds.  It is the Treasurers.  If I were you, I wouldn't even get listed on the bank account as a signatory on the account.  The Pack Treasurer, the Committee Chair and one other Committee Member should sign the checks - and work with your bank to require 2 signatures on every check - no matter how small it is.

If you're doing a fundraiser and are taking in cash - two people count it at the end of the day - one who deposits it and someone as a check on it.

There has to be monthly treasurers reports - and you shouldn't accept an oral report if its not backed up by a paper report.  The oral report can talk about highlights - we have $X.XX in the bank, we raised $Y.YY this month, we spent $Z.ZZ this month.  The paper report should be more detailed - dollars in the bank, where money came from that was raised (maybe it all comes from popcorn sales but maybe you have a car wash at the beginning of the month and a bake sale at the end)  Expenses should be detailed - ex. spent $55.75 on awards, $12.36 on service project snacks, etc.

As DuctTape said, they are TOYS. They weren't designed as a medical aid for kids with ADHD - they are not a medical device. They are the 2017 equivalent of the Rubik's Cube. Remember those? These are a fad - like hula hoops were once, like Rubik's Cubers were once, like Pokemon Go was once - and like all fads, it'll fade away. You can buy these things just about anywhere now - my local 7-11 has them for sale with a handwritten sign on the door that said "We have Tri-Spinner-Figits. Just tell the Scouts to put them away during the meeting - no need for the PLC - remind them that A Scout is Courteous and that being courteous means one isn't rudely playing with a toy while others are speaking.

We had a Rubber Duck patrol - not so weird name actually but the patrol yell was "Rubber Ducky, we're so fine" but the really cool thing was the patrol flag - the patrol had a Scout who was a really good artist and he drew a picture of Ernie driving a chartreuse microbus getting in not just one but two rubber duck references without actually drawing a rubber duck. 

As for the beret - my unit wore berets - the only ones that didn't like the berets were the new scouts whose parents bought them berets a size or so to big because "they'll grow in to them" and whose berets were not worn in yet.  Everyone with well-fit and worn in berets loved them.  Summer camp was a great place to get them worn in by the way (when you "accidentally" forget to take it off when swimming, or stuffing them in your sleeping bag while sleeping, etc.).  Of all of the BSA's hats, the beret was the most useful - hands down.  A beret could be used as a pot holder, a trivet (something to place a hot pot on), a water carrier (or for that matter a mulberry or raspberry or strawberry or blueberry or etc. carrier), a Frisbee, a kickball base, a bandage to clamp on to a gushing wound, a blindfold (with the aid of a neckerchief to hold it), a capture-the-flag flag - and on and on.  A garrison cap can do a number of those but make horrible Frisbees.  A smoky bear hat can do a number of those but would you really use one for a Frisbee or a base?  A baseball cap - well they're just useless except as a carrier.  Plus - the more abused and worn in they got, the sharper they looked because they could be worn correctly.  In a parade of Scouts, while the smoky bear hats looked sharp, the berets looked equally sharp and as a bonus, seemed to radiate active.

Werd!

I have no problems with Scouts.  It's the adults at training who come with lists of questions about requirements.  Three weeks to the next round.

 

Some here have said ignore the requirements - usually by substituting better, logical words that could or should have been said but clearly were not.  That is not an option for me, at least, when training Scoutmasters and SAs.

 

Some have said interpret words this way or that.  If native means naturalized in historic times and wild means (individual animals) that are not pets, the biggest quibble goes away.  (After all, the "Eastern Coyote" is supposedly a coyote-domestic dog hybrid.)

 

No one here has really dealt with "identify or show evidence of at least 10 kinds"   That has been brought up three prior years running by someone at training.  Many adults seems focused on finding the easiest possible way for a Scout to get rank.

 

CP, Mollusca is not a Kingdom.  Animalia is.  But I simply tell them this is not about binomial nomenclature or formal taxonomy.  I only brought it up because whoever wrote the requirement knows far less than I do about classification and put a phyla on the same level as classes.   I haven't dealt with classification since I was a lab assistant in Zoology as a history major (only one willing to deal with snakes) in 1964.

I don't believe I said Mollusca is a kingdom - I believe I said Mollusks are part of the Animal Kingdom - but perhaps I wasn't clear.

The requirement is to identify or show evidence of 10 different kinds of animals - the rest of that sentence is just filler really.  Let's think about this from an 11 year-olds perspective.  Animal means anything within the animal kingdom - whether its a phylum, a class, and order, a family, a genus or a species.  This is a second class requirement - it's not Zoology Merit Badge (oh right, the BSA discontinued the Zoology merit badge).   Think the common usage of the words, not the scientific uses.

As for 10 kinds - you need 10 kinds.  A white-tailed deer is one kind.  An American Robin is one kind.  An Eastern Coyote (which appears to be a genetic mixture of Western Coyote, Western and Eastern Wolves (whatever "Western" and "Eastern" wolf means - Timber Wolf?  Red Wolf?  Mixtures?)) and Domestic Dog is one kind.  So what is a kind?  For most of us, it's 11-year old speak for Species.  Here's the thing though - unless the BSA has defined it in the BSHB, then you just have to rely on people's common sense.  If a Scout unit wants to accept Bear, Bird, Rabbit, Deer, Insect, Clam etc., which can encompass dozens to thousands of individual species, we just have to accept it.

I think the same goes for native plants.  If you follow the definition of native that most conservation groups and government organizations use, then you're essentially limited to the plants that existed here before European settlers got here.  If that's the case, then your standard field is likely to be out of bounds (there is a reason they are often called Eurasian meadows) because almost all of the species in them are not-native.  For training purposes, I think you just have to spell out that at its most basic level, native means not-domesticated - it means no food crops, no flowers planted in gardens, no lawn grass and hope for the best because this isn't Botany Merit Badge (oh wait, the BSA eliminated that merit badge too).

When training, I think we need to start emphasizing more that people need to start thinking like 10-15 year olds.  Its really not about the easiest way to reach rank - it is about not reading more in to the requirements than is stated.

Not from what I can see, if I am understanding your comment.  The Internet Archive links that I posted here about 6-7 weeks ago - http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/28886-bsa-folds-again/?p=452086- still work.  For a second I thought maybe the BSA had hired some Russian hackers.  

It's the Boy Scouts of America - if they hire hackers, you can be sure they're hackers from Elbonia.  

Some questions:

1)  Can you folks planning and running the event (and not as Scout Leaders or Scouts) join this club and run the event through them?  Since they've already run it for a number of years, those pesky tax issues would likely not apply if its still a Club event.  Since they've already run it a number of years, that should make planning a bit easier too.

2)  Will the club promise to donate all the proceeds to the Troop and can you trust them to do so?  While you can't go to the club and ask them for money for the unit, there is nothing preventing the club from donating to the unit on their own.

3)  Do the committee members and interested parents really have the time to take a year to plan this event without affecting the program of the Troop?

4)  Is the amount of proceeds expected worth the time and effort to plan and operate this event?

Make sure you can answer yes to all of those questions before you take it on.  If the answer is yes, then start your planning but make sure you separate it out from any work you're doing as a Troop - for instance, don't discuss plans at Troop Committee meetings - keep the planning separate.

As for the DE - you need to make clear that the Troop is not longer going to plan and operate this event (he doesn't need to know that you folks are doing it outside the Scouting rubric - what you folks decide to do outside Scouting is none of his business).  You also need to make clear to the DE (or better yet, the Club President needs to do this) that the Club still owns the event, they are taking a break from it, and that the Club reserves the right to put that event on in the future and the BSA is not to attempt to replicate the event without the Clubs permission, which they do not have. 

 

Well, IMHO, if a boy can tell the difference between ten types of Chickadees, he's probably pretty aware of nature. I'd count it. There is no "diversity" rule listed--you are adding to requirements.  Also, being a birder, finding ten different species of a single type of bird is much harder than finding ten different species of birds, mammals, reptiles, fish, and mollusks.   

 Unless it's spring migration and you're on a certain boardwalk in Northern Ohio on Lake Erie where you might find 20 or more of 54 species of warblers in a couple of hours. 

I think we've identified the biggest problem with the requirements - the problem is us - and specifically adults.

Identify or show evidence of 10 different kinds of animals.  You're average 10-12 year old is going to be able to understand that at a basic level.  You need 10, they need to be different, and they can't be plants or fungi.  Only adults would try to parse that by phylum, class, order, family, genus or species.  An 11 year old is going to just stick with kingdom, where animal means mammals, fish, birds, molluscs, reptiles, amphibians and insects.  The requirement's limitations are animals and wild (and 10).  It only gives examples of animals when it uses "such as" - that doesn't leave out reptiles, amphibians and insects - it just leaves them unsaid..  The boys can figure that out.  You average 11 year old isn't going to see a dog or cat in the wild and think "oh, feral animal - that's wild too".  They're not going to count dogs, cats, horses, cow, sheep, chickens and pig as wild (unless they live somewhere where there truly are wild horses and wild boar).  Let's give the boys some credit here.  Saying all that, we as adults can push back a bit at times.  Identifying something as a bird, rabbit, deer, fish is really just not enough.  Tell us what kind of deer, what kind of rabbit,what kind of bird, what kind of fish.  That's the point of the requirement.  Of course, if their evidence of deer is deer tracks, you may need to settle for deer if you're in an area where white-tailed and mule deer actually mix.

Sometimes though, we write requirements thinking we're being clever.  Identify 10 different kinds of native plants?  You better have a good plant id field guide because a lot of plants out there that folks might call native truly aren't native, if the definition of native is a plant that has not been imported from elsewhere.  Dandelions were brought to the US 100's of years ago - not native.  Queen Anne's Lace - not native.  Narrow-leaved Cattail - not native.  Canada Thistle - not native.  Oxeye Daisy - not native.  I would even go so far as to suggest that for most of us, most of the plants we are most familiar with and can identify most readily are actually not native at all.  I suspect that what the requirement writer was getting at was don't identify plants that were planted in gardens or in cropland.  A better requirement would have been to identify 10 "wild" plants and then identify them as native or introduced and if they are invasive or not-invasive.

Oh, and if a boy identifies 10 different kinds of Chickadees in the US, forget Cornell, let's send him to Oxford (there are only 7 species of Chickadees on the US - if he discovers three more, he deserves better than Cornell).

At our end of summer district RT we heard reports from the various troops about their trips to summer camps (mostly out of council). Many of the troops reported being told they could not use squirt guns, water balloons, etc. *if* they were going to shoot or throw them at people. The doc they quoted? They very doc we are discussing. This is not just one camp, or two camps, or three camps. This was MANY camps across MANY different councils across MANY different regions.

 

In fact, two troops reported being threatened with not being able to go on their trek at Seabase because they were using "water noodles" to shoot water at each other.

 

So you can mince the words in the doc any way you want, but MANY other people are interpreting this as prohibitions.

 

But let's leave that alone for a moment and get back on the other issue, the ability to cool stuff outside of BSA that BSA forbids. Playing laser tag, paint ball, shooting 3D targets, etc., are fun and boys should be allowed to play them. The reasoning for barring such fun is specious at best.

Yes - that document does say you can't use squirt guns to shoot water at other people - it's always been quite clear - it's a simulated gun - and the BSA teaches never to point a gun OF ANY KIND at other people. 

It does NOT say anything about throwing water balloons at people - that's a misinterpretation and its not surprising that it might be repeated at any number of summer camps - The last time I went to National Camp School, the instructors were volunteers - not professionals (there would be one professional there, and lets face it, they're a bit clueless themselves when it comes to policy).  Once something like this gets repeated over and over and over it becomes a monster all of its own and no amount of looking at the actual wording of official documents will change people minds.  You will not find any official policy of the BSA banning water balloon fights because it's tossing things at people.  The Cub Scout program still suggests that day camps and packs and dens use sponges for summer time water fights - and that's tossing something.

But yes, lets leave all that alone for a minute and get to the other point - that the BSA is banning "fun things" like laser tag and paint ball.  They aren't telling anyone that Boy Scouts can't do any of this outside of Scouting.  Heck, if a Troop wants to get together and go paintballing or laser tagging together, that's just fine - AS LONG AS YOU DON'T CALL IT A SCOUTING ACTIVITY!.  I'll repeat it again - that rule isn't to protect your boys, or you - it is to protect the Corporation known as the Boy Scout of America.  If someone gets hurt playing Paintball, they can point to their rule and deflect all liability down to you in case someone decides to sue.  That's what this is all about.

Here's the main point though - the BSA has all kinds of books out there loaded with 100's of fun activities that you can do as Boy Scouts - anyone that just can't imagine running a fun program without those very few items that the BSA doesn't recognize as appropriate for Scouting may need to rethink their ability to lead a unit.

Who told you that you can't toss water balloons or water filled sponges at people?  Can you find one policy by National that forbids this because I certainly can't and I've looked and looked and looked.

In fact, I want to thank you for helping to prove up my statement that people go to training (or in this case read something) then go ahead and claim that something they've heard or read is policy and that some things are banned (when they aren't).  The BSA does not ban water balloon fights.  The mention of water balloons in the shooting sports manual is only about using them as ammunition for slingshots.  Extrapolating that to mean that there is some kind of restriction on the size of water balloons for water balloon fights is all you - not National - just you.  You have come to that conclusion and have become one of those people who claim something is a national policy when it isn't. 

You've also helped show just why this forum is needed - there is so much not quite right information out there that this forum can help correct.

As for water guns, rubber band guns, etc. - if it looks like a gun - even if it looks like a funky space gun and obviously is meant to be a gun, then no, you can't use them.  And no, it doesn't take a lawyer to understand that even pointing fake guns at people in the BSA goes against everything the BSA teaches about gun safety. 

Col. Flagg....Did you actually read through the shooting sports manual or are you just using what some "reporter" for Newsmax quoted out of context (which is something Newsmax does often - take a real quote and turn it in to fake news to outrage their readers)....Had you looked for that quote about water balloons.....(Quoted here for everyone else to see..Further, the manual states, "For water balloons, use small, biodegradable balloons, and fill them no larger than a ping pong ball.")....you would have learned that this refers to using water balloons as ammunition for sling shots and wrist rockets - NOT as a rule on water balloons for water balloon fights. In addition, it's less a rule than a best practice - a water balloon filled any much larger than a ping pog ball isn;t going to work very well with a slingshot and will be far less satisfactory when it hits the target.

#5: BSA restricts too much. Laser tag, 3d target shoots, water pistols, water balloons, paint ball, etc. I tell my patrols and crew that if they want to do these things, have a group activity, ditch the unit shirts and enjoy yourselves.

 

 

From the Boy Scouts of America Website:

Pointing any type of firearm or simulated firearm at any individual is unauthorized. This prohibition includes archery tag. Scout units may plan or participate in paintball, laser tag, or similar events where participants shoot at targets that are neither living nor human representations. Units may participate in formally organized historical reenactment events, where firearms are used and intentionally aimed over the heads of the reenactment participants. The use of paintball guns, laser guns, or similar devices may be utilized in target shooting events following the Sweet 16 of BSA Safety.

There is a very specific list of restricted activities in the guide to safe scouting.  The above happens to be one of those paragraphs in that list.  No where does it say that National is restricting or banning water balloons.  Councils may do so but that's a Council rule - and you'll need to take it up with them on why they've decided to do so.  Very often, people come away from training for something like Day Camp Program where it will be suggested that instead of using water balloons, use sponges for water fights - the sponges are re-usable (and therefore thriftier), more environmentally sound (and therefore cleaner) and if you get the right kind of sponge, can be used more than one time in one load of water and when these folks come back, they pronounce it as if it's some kind of restriction or against policy.  Of course, you can come in to this forum and get the real scoop from us oldies with more than a thousand posts if you care to.

There is, however, restrictions regarding laser tag, water pistols, paintball, etc.  It's actually a very simple restriction - you can't point at or shoot at people or depictions of people (manikins, people shaped targets, etc.).  You can still do target shooting - you just can't have people as your target.  For some reason, there are people who just can't seem to grasp that the BSA does this for perfectly valid reasons.  First, doing so goes against everything they teach about rifle, shotgun and archery safety.  Rule #1 in all cases?  Never aim your weapon at someone.  Ever.  The BSA teaches TARGET shooting as a sport.  You don't see Olympic athletes shooting at targets of people during competition, do you?   Second - the BSA is NOT a martial organization.  We have cool uniforms (or maybe not so cool) and all kinds of bling on them, kind of like the military, but we are NOT the military.  Want to shoot at depictions of people?  Join the Army, the Marines - let THEM teach you about shooting at other people.  Beyond that one restriction on paintball or laser tag, you're free to have a Troop outing to use paintball guns to shoot at targets all you want.  

There is not one restriction or ban by National that takes away from the fun of Scouting.  What takes away from the fun of Scouting is the lack of imagination of people who look at that list and jump right to the conclusion that they can't do anything.  If you're one of those people, it isn't National that is the problem, its you.  There are hundreds of things out there for Scouts to do - more than a Scout will be able to get to in a Scouting career.  When's the last time your Scouts played horseshoes?  I'm gonna hazard a guess and say never.  Go Bowling.  Go Canoeing.  Folks are always complaining their Eagle Scouts can't tie knots - so go do something that requires the use of knots.  Go do some orienteering.  Get together with a local nature center and go on a night hike looking for owls.  There are generations of Scouts who never had these activities available to them in the first place and yet may have had a lot more fun in Scouting than Scouts do today. 

Also - on this:

#10: BSA insurance covers very little. You need PERSONAL liability insurance. Even the RSO insurance you get from firearms and archery training does not cover what it should. I write the cost of my additional personal insurance off as an expense. The annual cost for $1m coverage is pennies compared to what would happen if I got sued for some kid running in to an archery range I am running DESPITE following all the protocols to keep him out.

This is a great idea - but do check you policy documents carefully - both your Personal liability insurance and/or your Unit's liability insurance.  You know all those restrictions?  I've said this before but it bears repeating - it is incidental that these restrictions protect the Scouts - they are really there to protect the corporation known as the BSA.  In a lawsuit or an insurance settlement discussion, the BSA can point to that restriction on having paintball battles between Patrols to reduce or even eliminate their liability.  Just having that policy there and readily available is often enough to shift the liability down to you.  So you have this nice, shiny liability policy of your own.  That's great if there is an incident and you've been following the rules.  But if you don't follow the rules?  If the BSA's insurance company can point to that rule and say your broke it so therefore they aren't paying, your own insurance company can do the same.  Its very possible that your own insurance company has a clause in your policy that states that they don't have to pay if you weren't following the rules.

Kind of sad that this has been up for over 24 hours now and only 3 stories have been shared.

I may have told this story before - it happened about 12 years ago now - I was camping alone at a state park across the road from a local Boy Scout Troop.  I was a little worried about getting some peace and quiet but they all settled down about 8:00 each night and were away most of the day on Saturday doing their thing.

Sunday morning, I was taking down camp as they were taking down their camp.  I always carry a litter pick-up stick with me and was picking up litter along the way to the dumpster after I had policed my own site, which a couple boys watched with interest (because it was obvious I wasn't just picking up my own trash).  One of them asked my why I was doing this and I told them it was because I was a Boy Scout growing up and that's what Boy Scouts do - they clean up their campsites before leaving.  The boys ran to their SPL to tell them what I had said and while the drivers were starting to get antsy about getting on the road, the SPL got the boys together and started them policing the area  - not only did they police their camp sites, but all of the vacant camp sites in the area and the roads and pathways to the shower/bath house. 

The Scoutmaster came over to me with a wide grin on his face and shook my hand while thanking me because he had never seen the boys be that enthusiastic about end of trip policing.

We don't often hear back from folks who have raised issues or have asked questions what their decisions are, or if what has been suggested has made a difference.  I think that is what is missing here - the feedback loop.  As a result, I think it is easier to come to the conclusion that the forum is just not useful.  But I don't believe that's the case. 

This website has a lot more members than folks who post in the forums.  We rarely hear from them if they are reading the posts or taking anything away from them.  We rarely hear back from folks who ask about how to handle a recalcitrant treasurer (or ASM or CC or SM of SPL or Scout or etc.) but I suspect that some of the advice is being used.  Occasionally we'll hear from someone who has decided to change units based on the advice given here but it's fairly rare.  It's even more rare for someone to share their success stories when some piece of advice they've gotten bears fruit.

Often, folks like to come on and rant about a situation in their unit - usually about advancement or who does what.  Sometimes it fells like we give and read the same advice over and over again but most of us keep in mind that for the person asking, it might be new.    We can go on and on about the advantages of having Den Chiefs but we'll never know if we got through.

For some folks reading the forum, they may see some of those extreme examples and come away thinking that they aren't doing as badly as they thought they were but still have room for improvement - I'd consider that a success.  Others may come away with a better understanding of why things are the way they are - I'd consider that a success. 

Me?  I'm always amazed at how, despite all we have in common in Scouts, just how different things really are.  I know we like to point at National as some kind of monolithic entity that is ruining the Scouting experience but the reality is, they're herding cats - they do the best they can for the biggest majority they can, bit they'll never appease everyone. 

How does the saying go?  A hundred years from now it not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove.  But the world may be different, because I was important in the life of a boy. 

Take that to this level and consider that just one Unit, just one Leader, just one Scout or just one Parent may be better because of advice received here in the forum and that's good enough for me.

Outdoor Activities (Per the BSA)

These activities must be in addition to any similar activities counted for rank advancement, and can be accomplished as a family, den, or pack.

â—¾Participate in a nature hike in your local area. This can be on an organized, marked trail or just a hike to observe nature in your area.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor activity such as a picnic or park fun day.

â—¾Explain the buddy system and tell what to do if lost. Explain the importance of cooperation.

â—¾Attend a pack overnighter. Be responsible by being prepared for the event.

â—¾Complete an outdoor service project in your community.

â—¾Complete a nature/conservation project in your area. This project should involve improving, beautifying, or supporting natural habitats. Discuss how this project helped you to respect nature.

â—¾Earn the Summertime Pack Award.

â—¾Participate in a nature observation activity. Describe or illustrate and display your observations at a den or pack meeting.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor aquatics activity. This can be an organized swim meet or just a den, pack, or family swim.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor campfire program. Perform in a skit, sing a song, or take part in a ceremony.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor sporting event.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor interfaith or other worship service.

â—¾Explore a local city, county, state, or national park. Discuss with your den how a good citizen obeys the park rules.

â—¾Invent an outside game and play it outside with friends for 30 minutes.

Outdoor Activities (Per the BSA)

These activities must be in addition to any similar activities counted for rank advancement, and can be accomplished as a family, den, or pack.

â—¾Participate in a nature hike in your local area. This can be on an organized, marked trail or just a hike to observe nature in your area.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor activity such as a picnic or park fun day.

â—¾Explain the buddy system and tell what to do if lost. Explain the importance of cooperation.

â—¾Attend a pack overnighter. Be responsible by being prepared for the event.

â—¾Complete an outdoor service project in your community.

â—¾Complete a nature/conservation project in your area. This project should involve improving, beautifying, or supporting natural habitats. Discuss how this project helped you to respect nature.

â—¾Earn the Summertime Pack Award.

â—¾Participate in a nature observation activity. Describe or illustrate and display your observations at a den or pack meeting.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor aquatics activity. This can be an organized swim meet or just a den, pack, or family swim.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor campfire program. Perform in a skit, sing a song, or take part in a ceremony.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor sporting event.

â—¾Participate in an outdoor interfaith or other worship service.

â—¾Explore a local city, county, state, or national park. Discuss with your den how a good citizen obeys the park rules.

â—¾Invent an outside game and play it outside with friends for 30 minutes.

And % of people truly gay or transgender is no where near what people pretend it to be. To watch TV you'd think it 30% of the population or more.

When polled, the American people estimate the number of LGBT people at about 25%.  The reality is it's about 4%.

Notice I did not say "only" 4% - because such a statistic can be used (and is often used - not necessarily by anyone in here) to marginalize minorities because after all, it's only 4% but when translated based on population numbers (currently estimated at 326 million by the UN), it also reflects that there are slightly more than 13 Million people who self-identify as LGBT in this country and I can only hope that none of us think that 13 Million is an insignificant number. 

As for why folks watching television would think there LGBT folks would represent about 30% of the population, that's a puzzle since, in 2016, only 4.8% of regular characters on TV shows are identified as LGBT (which is likely to be pretty close to the actual percentage of LGBT people in the US since it is likely that a significant number of people still won't identify as LGBT to anonymous pollsters according to Gallup's analysis of their polling data).

We've had discussions before on banning food choices versus encouraging healthy food choices.  Seen through the lens that EagleonFire brings, I'm thinking we're just not very consistent or good at it no matter which way we lean.  I think David CO is right -we don't place as big an emphasis on healthy living as other youth organizations do.  We play lip service to the idea (to keep myself physically strong) and touch on it in ranks and merit badges, but we really do a poor job of it.  Not only do we not do a very good job at it, the amount of pushback we get when healthy living does rear it's head is amazing to me. 

We had a recent thread where people were comparing modern merit badge requirements against early requirements with a lot of discussion centered around the cooking merit badge.  There were folks who thought that the requirements and emphasis on nutrition and safe food handling were just not needed.  The argument was that the merit badge was too much like school work, that they would get the information elsewhere (like school) and that the badge needed to be simplified because Scouts couldn't handle the complexity of merit badge requirements (frankly, I believe its because these adults couldn't handle the complexity of the requirements).  Forget that we know so much more about nutrition and food safety than we did 100 years ago.

We've had threads on how to encourage our Scouts to plan menus that don't include hot dogs, hamburgers and pop tarts and folks have come up with things like iron chef contests and Troop cookbooks.  Folks that said they just ban these from menus got pushback from folks saying let the Scouts make their own choices.  I don't think we ever came to any kind of consensus (not that this group could).  There is also inconsistency in what is banned.  Sodas banned but not pop tarts.  Candy banned but not soda. 

I think part of the issue is that this is a complicated topic.  It seems that what is healthy and what is not changes every other day.  Coffee is good for you one week and bad for you the next - now it's good for you again, or is that bad for you again - who knows?    Maybe the answer isn't to ban anything but to have the Patrols prove up how hot dogs or pop tarts are part of a nutritious and healthy menu if they want to have them.

This has been an interesting thread - from where we started to now discussing the alcohol and smoking policies of the BSA and soda versus juice.............On Soda vs. Juice (and I'll toss in Chocolate Milk) based on sugar content alone, there really isn't that much difference between soda and the "more healthy" juice and milk....20 oz coke = 65g of sugar, 20 oz mountain dew = 77g, 20 oz orange juice = 60g, 20 oz apple juie = 65g, and 20 oz chocolate milk = 72.5g.