CalicoPenn

You know, it's funny - someone recently had the same complaint about the BSA's cooking merit badge and how complicated it's become, even up to the point of asking why we need to have some first aid skills and why we need to bother with nutritional information in the merit badge requirements. 

I just can't understand why folks think these kinds of requirements are problematic or difficult  I look at them and thiknk "wow - why couldn't someone have thought of these when I was a Scout.

1a. Cook something from an area of the world you're curious about. Okay, sounds good so far. My daughter could make pasta, or an Indian curry...I'm interested in Iceland - now granted, it might be difficult to find puffin or fermented shark, but I surely could find something from Iceland that I could cook here.

1b. Find a relative, friend or neighbor who is an immigrant... Surely it's a cooking badge, not a cultural diversity badge. Let's keep it real!  I don't know how that requirement ends but I suspect it has something to do with learning about how different foods are here than from back home.  No matter how it might end, it sounds like a really good lesson in how immigrants have come to this country and have changed our foodways - both in the past and in the present.  Maybe folks in rural US haven't started eating food from Thailand but a lot of people in Urban areas have and eat it regularly.

2a. Put together a meal based on a food related news story. Why does it need to even get this complicated?  How is this complicated?  There are food related stories in the media all the time these days - is Gluten Free things being reported in your area?  Plan a gluten-free meal.  was kale being reported on?  Plan a dish around kale.

2b. Or research and cook a regional specialty that's become a cultural phenomenon.  I don't see any time limitations on this and the internet is full of stories about regional specialties.  If it were me, I'd cook an old-fashioned buttermilk fried chicken recipe - a regional specialty that has become, thanks to a certain Kentucky Colonel, a genuine cultural phenomenon.  Or how about pulled pork?  or bratwurst?  What's wrong with learning about regional foods?

2c. Visit the local history center or library, or ask an elderly community member, for a recipe...  Again, what's wrong with this?  Libraries are full of cookbooks.  An awful lot of local historical societies have published recipe books.  And elderly community members are a great resource for all kinds of things - I think asking someone for their favorite recipe would be a really cool thing to do.

Have you tried the 3M Ultrathon lotion which is 34.34% deet versus the 25% deet in the spray?

Well, the troop committee decided to call off the event. The DE was trying to take too much control (funds, troops involved) so the committee decided it wasn't worth the effort. Fortunately, we were not counting on this money so all we lost was a few months of planning. 

Sorry to hear that.  The next message to the DE, with a copy to the SE and Council President is that because of his interference with the Troop, the Troop will not let him, or anyone else, give a presentation for FOS this year, or any year in the future, as long as he remains the DE.

Thought you would all like a bit of trivia:

Thin Mints (made by both firms) make up 25% of all cookie sales

Caramel DeLites/Samoas = 19%

Peanut butter Sandwich/Do-si-dos = $16%

Peanut Butter Patties/Tagalongs = 13%

Lemonades (ABC Baking only) = 9%

Short Bread/Trefoils = 7%

Thanks-a-Lot (ABC Baking only) = 6%

In paired cookie names, the first is an ABC Baking name and the second is a Little Brownie Baker cookie.

Ember - Do-si-does are not little gifts handed down by God and carried to us by angels in chariots.  God doesn't have time to bake.  However, Do-si-does are made by the next best thing - Little Elves living and working in a complex of treehouses.  Little Brownie Bakers is a division of Keebler (which I think explains why I prefer the LBB cookies over the ABC cookies).

Some troops are just really strict on WHO does these MB classes.  My son's troop is very much on top of providing "Quality" MD Councilors for the boys.   

 

This is NOT a race to see how many one can receive right?  Rules at our troop, no Eagle required MB (except for Swimming) are allowed by anyone under 1st class.  Troop also looks down on Merit Badge colleges (puppy mills if you will) To ea there on. 

National is very clear on this  - a Scout can start working on ANY merit badge he wants to earn at ANY time with no age or rank restrictions.  A newly crossed-over Scout can start working on any and every merit badge, including Eagle Scout required ones, the moment his membership is transferred from Cubs to Scouts. 

Isn't it rather arrogant of the leaders of your Troop to decide that "it knows better" than the BSA?  Its rules like your unit's rules that lead to posts like the original poster and other posts we've had of parents frustrated by their units inability to follow the rules laid out by the BSA and then making decisions to take their sons and leave Scouting.

Don't want to accept Merit Badge Colleges?  Great - they're a bad idea anyway and the BSA doesn't have any policy against your unit not accepting them.  But they do have a very specific policy against units adding rank requirements, or ANY pre-requisites of their own, when it comes to what merit badges a Scout may earn and when.

Don't bother trying to explain just how superior your Troop's way is, or try to make excuses for why your Troop is doing things the way it's doing.  If you folks really think you know best, then make that argument to the National BSA advancement folks.  A Scout is Obedient - if a Scout sees a rule he thinks should be changed, he works within the system to try to get the rule changed.  He doesn't just ignore it because "he knows better". 

That point of the Scout Law applies to your unit and your unit's leaders too.  What kind of message are you sending your Scouts when you disregard a clear policy directive because you don't like it.

 

As a private club, the BSA was/is exempt from ADA  which does seem odd if the club has members with disabilities.

 

 

More precisely, BSA's facilities, if they meet certain usage thresholds to maintain "private club" status, are exempt from FEDERAL ADA regulations.  For employment purposes, the BSA is still bound by the federal ADA regulations.

But the key word here is federal.  Almost every state has adopted and/or adapted the federal ADA regulations within their own state laws and in many of those states, though the BSA is exempt from the federal regulations, they aren't exempt from state ADA laws.  If a state has adopted the federal ADA regulations as their own laws, and do not exempt "private clubs", then the BSA will still have to comply.

National can dictate all they want, but if the councils don't have the money what then? What happens if a council does not have the temporary or permanent facilities by these dates?

 

 

 

I think I can answer that with a great deal of confidence.  Councils that do not comply will have their charters revoked and will be merged with nearby councils and the BSA will simply say they had to do it because the Council showed that it was not fiscally healthy.  For councils that can't be easily merged with a neighboring council, National will cancel the charter, effectively eliminating the current board, fire the Scout Executive, then re-organize the Council - likely in a matter of days.

Sorry to interrupt this back and forth, but BSA is not a 501©(3). Why would you quote that when BSA is a 501©(1)?

 

Lastly, don't confuse tax-exempt status with being "non-profit". They are two different things.

The BSA is a 501© (3) organization according to a letter from the IRS confirming the BSA's status from the IRS on 10.09.91 (which can be seen on the Scouting Service Project website).

501© (1) organizations are corporations organized by Acts of Congress.  In order to be a tax exempt 501© (1) organization, the act must specifically state that they are exempt from taxes, not just say they are non-profit.  Federal Corporations organized in such a manner are considered "instrumentalities of the federal government" - just about all of them are organized to advance the economic policies of the US government.  Their corporate charters are registered directly with the US Government, not by a State or Territory.  Examples are the FDIC, FannieMae, the Federal Reserve Banks, the FSLIC, Federal Credit Unions.

Though the BSA does have a federal charter, which might confuse folks in to thinking it is organized by an Act of Congress and is therefore a 501©(1), it was originally registered in the District of Columbia, not as a federal corporation.  All of the other patriotic and civic organizations with federal charters are also 501©(3)'s.

BTW - the BSA is non-profit because there is language in the federal charter that makes it non-profit.

Has this been a tradition in your Pack, to invite that year's crossover Pack alumni to join in for one last campout? No official rule against it - it's completely up to you. When was crossover? February? March? Might I make a suggestion? If you're going to do this, think about adding a component to the weekend - kind of an "Okay, boys - you've been in Scouts for a few months now - show us what neat things you've learned" - I see this as an opportunity for the Pack to help encourage the next set of Webelos to cross over. If you've got more than a couple of crossovers attending, try getting them together, even if they aren't in the same Troop or Patrol (they were probably in the same Den and know each other) and encourage them to work together as a temporary Patrol, planning and making their own meals - demonstrating by doing - just what Boy Scouts do.

My thoughts:

A Good Turn is something that isn't usually a long project, and is often spontaneous. While most Boy Scouts usually aren't in a position to help a little old lady across the street anymore, the important take-away from that image is that a good turn often helps just one person, doesn't take alot of time, and isn't something that is usually planned. A Scout sees someone in the park chasing after their dog and is able to catch the dog has done their good turn. A Scout holds a door open for someone with their arms full - thats a good turn (who said the good turn has to be something big?). A couple of Scouts finish shoveling their driveway and decide to clear "Old Man Jone's" driveway - that's a good turn. A Scout finds a wallet and tracks down the owner - a good turn....................................................................................................... A service project, in my opinion, benefits more than just one person - it benefits a group, other than their own unit. The projects are typically planned - not spontaneous. Serve as waiters at your chartered organization's pancake supper (yes, supper - I like pancakes for supper) and I'd count the hours - as long as its not a fundraiser for my own unit. Paint the fire hydrants downtown for the city? Service project. Clear the trails at a local nature center after a big storm or after winter? Service project. Help an Eagle Scout candidate at their leadership project? I'll give them Service project hours. Paint the shelter at Scout Camp? Service Project. For me, the biggest key is that the project be done for a government or for a non-profit (including churches, synagogues and mosques). If its a business or if someone is getting paid for it, then it's free labor - not a service project. Would I count the pond clean-up at an HOA as a service project? No - an HOA is a business - they collect and spend fees from the homeowners to maintain the common areas - they may not make a profit, but if they were to hold a reserve, they would have to pay taxes on the amount that they retained each year (so that folks are clear - if they decided to build up a reserve of $25,000 and held back $5,000 a year to do so, they would have to pay taxes on $5K the first year, $5K the second year, etc.).

At this time of year, if I were setting up a tarp to provide shade, I would set it up so that the part that angles down is towards the west. In my neck of the woods (Northern Illinois), the temeperatures in the morning are generally less hot than they are in the late afternoon,when the sun is in the western sky, when I'd be looking for more shade....................If I had two rectangular flys, I think I would set them up in parallel - as long as they are "joined" in the middle, the front fly can be fully horizontal to the ground which will provide more shade coverage that either perpendicular or serially

Just what kind of facilities improvements do folks think Scout Camps are going to need to make?  Females have been allowed to be Scoutmasters since the 1980's - they've already got things figured out.

Interesting video.

I do have a few comments though.

• Twice you have slides in the presentation that pretty much say "Don't Listen to Me".  I know you're trying to suggest that folks not rely only on what your presenting, but the moment you say "don't listen to me", you've pretty much lost your audience.  To do so twice in the presentation?  You're just begging you audience to ignore everything you're trying to say.  Why should anyone actually sit through the rest of the video, or believe anything you say, after the first "don't listen to me slide"?  Surely there's another way to say don't just rely on the presentation for your information than "don't listen to me".
• You mention in your narration that "we all know about DEET".  The thing is, chances are we don't all know about Deet.  Think about your target audience - any chance this presentation might be shown to folks who are first time campers learning how to lead groups in to the woods that know nothing about DEET?
• Finally - in your section on permethrin, you flash a sign reading "Seriously This Is A Bad Idea" while you're extolling the virtues of using permethrin and have just finished telling us you treat your family's clothes with it twice a year.  If it's really a bad idea, why would YOU use it.  Your "actions" don't match up with this sign.  First you tell us not to listen to you then you tell us something you do on a regular basis is a bad idea.  I guess now we know why its a bad idea to listen to you. 

In general, I liked your presentation, but you might want to consider what kind of assumptions you are making about your audience and what kinds of mixed messages you are presenting.

 

 

The Camp Director, also a volunteer, saw the damage and quickly concluded it was a BB pellet hole in the middle of the shattered window.  Our District is currently between DEs, and so, for most of the event so far this week, there has not been any BSA staff on site, and there was none on site when the window was discovered at end of day.

Ok.  The Camp Director, volunteer or not, has the responsibility to report it to the incident to Council.  Make sure that's been done.  If you have an actual quote on the replacement cost, include that in your e-mail to Council - word it with just the facts that you know and ask them what the next step is.  They may require you to file a claim with your insurance company.

Make sure you take some pictures of the location of the range and the location of the parking lot and where your van was in relation to where the range was. 

Now please take the following in the spirit in which it's given - I'm not trying to be negative here, just being pragmatic.  The Council's #1 job is not to provide programming for units - I know we wish it was but it isn't.  It's number one job is to protect the name and image of the Boy Scouts of America and to reduce any exposure of risk to the bottom line (the BSA may be a non-profit, but it's still a business).  In a rose-colored glasses world, the Council would just cut you a check for the loss.  This isn't that world - the Council will likely file a claim with their insurance company which may (emphasis on MAY - I said I'm not trying to be negative) trigger a brief investigation of the circumstances.  If I were the insurance inspector, the very first thing I would want to know is where was your van in relation to the BB Gun Range.  I'd be looking at two things - was your van in the normal line of fire of the range (was the range set up against the parking lot?).  The second and third would be how far away from the range was your van and was your van parked in a legal space (that last would be to try to shift at least part of the blame your way).  How far away is pretty important - the further away you get, the less force a BB has to penetrate glass.

The second thing I would be looking at is the BB Guns themselves - are they lever action (which propel BBs at speeds from about 85 meters per second to a maximum of 145 mps, with most ranging around 114 mps) which generally has a penetrating range of 60-100 yards or were they pneumatic pump powered guns which increases the velocity of the BB which increases the penetrating range of the bb or was is a CO2 powered BB gun which increases the velocity even further and has the longest penetrating range.   

The point is if the Council get's their insurance company involved, the insurance company may decide $300 is not worth the aggravation but they could also decide it's worth it to investigate and try to find some way to say it's not related to the bb gun range at all.

We had female staff members at summer camps in 1978. We had female staff members at Maine National High Adventure Base when I worked there in the mid-1980's. The BSA figured it out way back then - it can certainly figure it out now.

Did you report the damage to the Camp Director? That's step one.

Or Col. you could as suggested open the key program document of the boy scout program.  The Handbook, Patrol Leaders Guide, etc.   No where would you find instruction to bring along your sister.   

Very true, you won't find instruction to bring your sister.  You also won't find instruction not to bring your sister.

And that's the point, isn't it?  Typically, if something isn't specifically prohibited, then the assumption is its allowable and up to the units/CO's to make the determination of whether it will be done within the unit, and in what circumstances.

If the BSA expects that ASM's (or any other unit leader) should not bring their daughter on an overnight with the Troop, then it is the responsibility of the BSA to spell that out and actually prohibit it.  I suspect if the BSA were to do so, such a rule would be promptly ignored the first time a Troop has to cancel an overnight campout because they only have two adults available to go and one of them has to drop out of the campout because s/he has to also take care of a daughter that same weekend.

We can spend hours twisting ourselves like pretzels trying to find relevant documentation in the Boy Scout literature to answer the question - but the fact is (and kudos to Richard B for the ole college try) - there are no actual, written in stone, rules against it that you're going to find. There is plenty of suggestions (for instance, the section of the G2SS that Richard B posted isn;t actually a rule against bringing siblines, of either sex - it is a suggestion)and there are unrelated policies that one could hang their hat on (for instance, it is a membership policy that a Boy Scout be a boy and folks might try to point to that but the reality is, that's a membership policy - not a camping policy, and the BSA has not made a rule that non-members can't camp with a Troop - they recognize that having guests camp with a troop can be a good recruiting tool).......................So that all said, what's the rule? It is whatever YOUR Chartered Organization or your Unit Committee (in the absence of a policy from the CO_ says it is. I know people like to complain alot about how the BSA isn't very clear on a lot of things but the fact is alot of times that's done on purpose. Don;t always look to the BSA for answers that the Unit shold be making for themselves. I understand that this is a tough one and it would be easier on all involved to be able to point to a BSA rule to avoid hurt feelings, but sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet.

I'm with Stosh - contact the Council about setting your son(s) up with the provisional Troop for the week of Summer Camp that you paid for - Council should have a record that you paid for Summer Camp and most will be just fine with accommodating you.  While you're talking to the Council, ask them what their policy is on letting the Provisional Scoutmaster sign blue cards - some council's won't allow it but others will, and even if a council's policy is not to allow it, they'll often become remarkably flexible about it when they are told that your son(s) are transferring Troops in the fall or dropping out of Scouts.

A couple of paperback books - there will be some down time in the campsite and if he's not working on a project, they'll help fill the time.

A journal with pens - to write down his experiences of the days.

A camera with extra charged batteries

Some small zipper travel bags where smaller items like knives, compasses, sewing kits, change, etc. can be stored - makes it less likely for small things to get lost when they aren't just tossed loosley in to a backpack or duffle bag.

 

 

But my biggest concern is the BSA changing the program majorly to accommodate girls. This quote on one of the slides posted on facebook from the meeting greatly concerns me: " Do current programs meet the character and leaderships needs of older girls?"

 

I'm sorry, but if girls want the BSA program, they need to accept it as is and not change it.

 

 

Without actually being in the room and hearing the discussion around this question, it's a bit hard to know what is meant by it.

I can think of a number of things that this question might be exploring.

The most obvious, to me at least, is the question of whether the BSA is successfully meeting the needs of older girls in those programs they are already involved with - is the BSA meeting the needs of older girls in Venturing, Sea Scouting and Exploring?  If the answer is yes then maybe the BSA can build on that at the Boy Scout level.  If the answer is no, then maybe they need to concentrate on fixing that (and they should fix it if it's not working since those are already co-ed programs) and not expanding to Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts just yet.

Another meaning is that it could be leading to a discussion on if the Boy Scout program meets those needs as the program exists, which will make it fairly easy to bring girls in, or whether the program as is will not meet those needs without major changes that will likely prove extremely controversial and lead to a bigger decline in membership numbers than would be already anticipated.  I think it's a fair question to explore and to understand and I think its one that needs to be considered early in the process.

I doubt the BSA will move forward with admitting girls in to the Cub Scout program (which seems to me to be the program that may be easiest to adjust to) unless they can integrate girls in to the Boy Scouts - to let girls join Cub Scouts then to tell them they can't "graduate" to Boy Scouts seems a bit self-defeating.

Baloo is required for Pack Overnighters, which are Pack organized events.  If it's a Council-organized camping trip (and a District Camporee is technically a "Council-organized" trip), it is not considered a Pack Overnighter so Baloo is not required (Owl is designed to help a Webelos Den Leader gain the skills to teach outdoor skills to Webelos - its not required for any campout).

That said, I agree with Stosh - the more training the better - you may not need Baloo for a Council (District) organized camping trip, but it wouldn't hurt.

Saltines, Pringles, Fritos, hand sanitizers, Vaseline

Lint, steel wool, cotton balls, rope fiber

I'd ask the Scouts to notice the patterns - what do the items in each of the lists have in common.   They're either oily or fibrous (yes, steel wool is a fiber - a metal fiber, but it's a fiber).

In talking to my LDS colleagues, this has a lot more to do with internal LDS politics than it does with and BSA policy changes - made and considered.

Varsity/Venturing has always been a poor fit with the Aaronic Priesthood (boys from 14-18) - it really only delivered some outdoor/high adventure/sports things and everything else was haphazardly squeezed in.  There have been a lot of internal complaining the last 30 years or so as the LDS church has expanded outside the US and Canada that there has been no formal program put together for the priesthood - which covers a lot more ground than the program Scouting offers.  Not only do other country's LDS Stakes complain that there is no BSA like program that they could be piggy-backed too, there have been grumblings from US and Canadian stakes that there is no uniformity of the program throughout the Stakes - that each feels they have had to invent their own wheel within the Varsity/Venturing realm.  For the past 10 or so years, there have been increasing complaints from LDS women that the girls aren't being well-served either.  As the LDS works to modernize just a bit, they can no longer ignore the cries that boys and girls are being treated unequally and that foreign Stakes don't have equitable parity with US and Canadian Stakes.

The LDS church has been working for years on putting together a standardized program for the Aaronic Priesthood and now it's ready.  The LDS folks I've spoken to over the years have said this is coming and that it was just a matter of time.

Will it impact Scouting's numbers?  Of course - but one reality is that as a result of their automatic registration policy, the membership numbers have been artificially inflated - and can we truly say that it isn't the same as when a Council just keeps Scouts that are dropping out on the rolls to boost their numbers.

A lot of these LDS leaders involved in Scouting have earned the Eagle Scout rank.  They like the BSA.  Most of them think a lot of the membership drop will be of those that are registered and not participating - they're already trying to figure out if there is a way their Stakes can charter these units as more traditional units - with the members of the units paying dues, like every other traditional Scout unit.  The biggest fears the LDS units have is that now that Varsity/Venturing will no longer be part of the official youth program, will Stake Presidents give the units the same dispensation for traveling on Sunday mornings after Camporees.

I think we'll see a short term loss, followed by a stabilization of numbers.  The BSA will figure out the funding.  There will be some LDS dominated traditional units created in the aftermath because there are still a lot of people in the LDS church who like the Boy Scouts and want their children to be Boy Scouts, even if it is no longer an official part of the church.

I believe it is just too soon to panic.

@desertrat77 I think one of the reasons AHG and TL/USA are coming on strong is not so much the faith basis of the program, it's because it's going back to the basics as you wish BSA would be doing.  I was the one who started the "Classic Scouting"  thread that strayed off course rather quickly.  I don't think people want the Lombardi approach.  After all, how does one drag GBB out of the closet and admit he had something good going when you've been re-writing history to exclude him for all these years.

I sure wish people would stop overstating the influence of AHG and TL/USA and would stop saying they are coming on strong.

AHG was founded in 1995.  They have 43,000 members.  The Girl Scouts has 2.6 Million.

TL-USA was founded in 2013 and started operations in 2014.  They have 26,000 members and only increased approximately 6,000 members from 2014 to now.  The BSA has 2.35 Million.

These membership numbers do not support the suggestion that they are coming on strong.  They are limping along in a very narrow demographic and it's not going to get much better for them given the current state of church attendance in the US.

TL-USA is not likely going to be benefitting at all from the LDS dropping Varsity/Venturing.

For years, we've been hearing this whole "TL-USA and AHG is a serious threat to the BSA argument" and it's just not playing out that way so can we finally put that to rest?