CalicoPenn

"The White House is a dump"  <~~~ name the President that said that then wonder why anyone should take the right wing's complaints about Bill and Hillary seriously if they insist on continuing to support this man after insulting the "people's house".

Trump had the opportunity to rise above and deliver an uplifting speech - there is even a portion of his speech that would have been fine all on its own, if he left it there. It's a shame that that part of his speech was overshadowed by his belligerence and whining, by his campaign style ramblings. 

As bad as that speech was, some (many?) of the Scouts present embarrassed the BSA again by acting like snot-nosed little brats and booing President Obama. 

The wishy-washy statement from the BSA afterwards, in response to a great deal of criticism by PARENTS of Scouts, is not helping their cause.  Unfortunately, the BSA is caught up in a storm not of their making.  It was the right thing to do to invite President Trump.  It's a real shame that the this President has brought such ill-repute to the Boy Scouts of America. 

As bad as all that is, the worst part is the partisan hacks in here who will defend Trump at all costs, even when he gives a wildly inappropriate and at times disgusting speech to Boy Scouts.  You people know who you are.

As for the Reagan comparisons to Obama - while the cancer surgery is certainly a good excuse for missing a Jamboree, the attempted assassination in 1981 is not.  The assassination attempt was in March of 1981.  President Reagan returned to the Oval Office in April.  On May 17, President Reagan started traveling domestically again, on official trips - he made 8 domestic trips on AF1 between May 17 to July 7, then did nothing from July 8 to July 29, taking another trip on July 30.  If he was healthy enough to take these trips to as far away as California and Denver, then he was healthy enough to travel from the White House to Fort AP Hill at the end of July.  So no, that excuse does NOT hold water - but I will still respect his decision not to attend just as I respect Obama's decision not to attend either Jamboree during his term - without needing to come up with some kind of snarky reason why he didn't attend. 

By the tone of some of the internet flamers, those boys SM's might be accused of corrupting the morals of a minor.

 

Related to the background of the photo: Hey, Texans. Is there anything in your state's code about using your flag for capes?

I want to know about the KFC bucket hats

Welcome to the forum!

The only thing I truly need in my backpack (beyond the basics of clothing, food and some tools like a knife, matches, and a headlight with spare batteries)  is my journal and writing/drawing instruments, and my camera, with spare batteries and a solar power recharging set.   The food I bring is stuff I can eat raw - I don't cook on the trail anymore.

Original poster here. The question was specifically about summer camp (wasn't sure if the regular troop positions automatically extended to camp).

 

 

 

 

Perhaps the question should be "why would a Troop treat Summer Camp as some kind of separate and special Troop activity with it's own leadership set?  Do units create "summer camp only" patrols?  (ok, I get it sometimes a unit might temporarily combine a couple of Patrols if the participation rate is low but that should be something that is rare). 

We hold elections for Senior Patrol Leader every 6 months - a Scout is welcome to run for re-election if they desire.  Though not mentioned in the official literature, we do limit a Scout to two terms as SPL (the Troop is large enough to be fortunate to do so).  The Patrols elect their PL's every 6 months as well.  Elections are held October and March.  The SPL is the SPL for the entirety of their term, summer camp included. 

As an aside, regarding digging trenches around tents, I am not surprised this was taught in the past, but I am unaware it was in any of the fieldbooks. All of my copies going back to 1948 describe choosing tent locations with good drainage and make no mention of digging trenches. Admittedly I do not own every edition and every printing of the Fieldbook. So I am curious which edition this appeared as it must have been a short lived idea.

My memory may be faulty - it may have not been in the Fieldbook - but I do remember seeing illustrations of tent trenching, and other ideas for campsites, in BSA literature somewhere - perhaps it was an old BSA handbook, or an old merit badge guide.  Of course, way back when trenching was de riguer, it wasn't uncommon for Troops to be using shelter halves (which, when put together, formed a 2-man floorless pup tent).

 

Not remembering any discussion in my youth of ranks vs.awards ... I pulled down my BSHB (9th Ed. -- I now regret not taking it to Jambo and having Bill Hillcourt sign it), so let's see what we've got ...

 

 

Now. Who taught you?

I'm pretty sure that if I were to find my 8th edition BSHB, it would probably read much the same - of course, that was the 1970's and things tend to change over time.

Looking at the most recent guide to advancement and the information available on the BSA's own website, it refers to Scout through Eagle Scout as ranks - not as awards.  It's not about who taught us - it's about keeping up with current information.  My oldest brother (he's 10 years older than me) was taught to dig a trench around his tent when he was a Scout.  I was taught not to dig a trench around my tent.  I remember the BSA Fieldbook I owned still showed trenching - it took awhile for it to catch up. 

I know that some folks might think Palms are very important - I also believe that some folks, like me, just see them as JUST a reward for earning more Merit Badges than are required.  I think they can play an important role in retaining Scouts that become Eagle Scout - give them something to work for.  I just happen to be one of those who don't think a BOR is really all that needed for Palms - I'm perfectly fine with Troops using them as a trigger for a BOR but I think it should be optional.

I think some of the awards are more important than Palms - ok, Totin' Chip isn't one of them, but the Den Chief Service Award would top my list - it's a perfect award for a Board of Review - a Troop Committee can probably get a lot of useful information about a Den Chief's experience, and how the Troop's program helps or hurts Webelos Den recruitment. 

 I just had it in my head that that a BoR was how scouts got any award of importance.

Hmmm - I wonder where you got that idea?  Possibly because non-advancement BOR's are so rarely discussed?

Intersesting turn of phrase too - "award of importance"

We don't do BOR's for Totin' Chip, Paul Bunyan, Mile Swim, 50-milers, interpreter strips, religious awards, or the Den Chief Service Award.  I'd argue that at least a couple of them are as important as Palms. 

BOR's for rank advancement are the most common BOR's.  Palm's aren't ranks but their BOR's may be the second most common (after all, they are required (for now).  Displinary BOR's are probably the next most common.  The BSA recommends that a BOR be held for a Scout at least every six months - that would probably catch those Scouts not advancing, if Troops were to do them. 

I think BOR's for ranks are a natural - there's lots to review - there's progress.  For awards?  I don;t see the burning need for it - there's no forward progress at stake.  Te be consistent, I would have no problem with eliminating BORs for Palms since we don't do BOR's for any other non-rank award. Being said, I would encourage that every Scout have a BOR at least every six montth - whether "needed for rank advancement" or not.

To answer the question - yes - the adult leaders who thought it was a good idea to leave the cash in the booth over night.  Someone should have had the responsibility to take it home with them overnight, and should have had the sense to take it home at night.

That being said - something just doesn't smell right to me about this.  I don't believe people are naïve enough even in small towns in Iowa to leave $13K in cash in a cash box in a booth overnight - especially in a small town in Iowa that has a history of issues with meth addiction.   Of course there isn't a lot more information, and I've looked at other sources that mentioned this theft, but there's nothing mentioned about any one else's booths being broken in to.  If no other booths were broken in to, how would a thief know that the Scouts booth was full of cash?  I can't help but wonder if there's something more to this - an inside job as it were.

First class-first year should not be a goal.

I suspect that even if Troops are pushing First Class-First Year, 6 camping trips a year might be ambitious for some troops trying to provide a balanced program.

Why is that an issue worth changing the whole program back for?

 

Just as an aside to the discussion - I find it rather interesting that there were no big discussions about National changing the requirements in the first place given how generally reluctant folks are at accepting changes by National in the first place.  I didn't see anyone asking if there was an issue worth changing the program for in the first place. 

(Col - not a reflection on you - your post was just very convenient for the observation).

 

 

As for mail, wife and I  sent a care package out on the Saturday before they left. Boys got it Wednesday.

When staffing, we had a lot of parents calling us on Saturdays after their sons had gotten home telling us there were care packages of cookies and snacks that hadn't reached camp in time for their sons and that we should go ahead and keep them as treats for staff.  We never had a dearth of homemade cookies in the staff lounge.

Chota boots are more suitable for wading while fly fishing/stream fishing over mostly pebbly/rocky surfaces - if you go with Chota, be careful that you don't buy boots with felt soles - those are strictly water shoes - meant for wading, not portaging.

The Chaco Outcross shoes are the right idea, but you're going to want ankle support so I'd skip those.

You can go with Jungle Boots - I know a lot of folks recommend them, but in my opinion, they're overkill - you aren't invading a small country. 

I would recommend a lightweight hiking boot with over the ankle support.  They don't take much time, if any, to break in, they are quick drying if you do end up having to wade, they'll provide more than ample support on the portage trails (if you are going to be creating new portage trails, then I'd go with the jungle boots but you're going to be portaging on well-established portage trails), and they're very comfortable.  I think Chaco, if you're set on that brand, makes lightweight hiking boots (boots - not shoes).  A couple of others I'd recommend would be Hi Tec and Merrell (my Merrell's are three years old and still going strong).

One more thing I would stay away from - waterproof boots.  They're going to sound very tempting since you'll be around so much water, but consider that if a boot is waterproof and preventing moisture from getting in, they'll also be preventing moisture from getting out - you could spend a day not stepping in to so much as a puddle and at the end of the day, your feet will be tender and wet from the sweat not being able to escape.  Stay with a lightweight, breathable boot. 

Here's a rundown of an average year in my Troop growing up:

January - Klondike Derby - outdoors but not camping

February - Cabin Campout - though overnighting inside, activities take place outside - no camping

March - First Aid Meet - not camping

April - Galena Grant Encampment - 1st camping overnight

May - Camporee - 2nd camping overnight

June - Canoe Trip - day trip - no camping

July - Summer Camp - 3rd camping overnight - using pre-set tents - doesn't meet the "in shelter you set up" requirement

August - Service Project - help sponsor with corn roast - no camping (our unit considered this a rest month from Summer Camp - we camped for two consecutive weeks at summer camp)

September - Camporee - 4th camping overnight

October - Troop campout - 5th camping overnight

November - Brown County Biking & Hiking - stayed in lodge - no camping

December - day hike - no camping

I'm biased but that's a pretty decent set of activities for a Troop.  It just doesn't meet the 6 camping trip requirements - it only meets 4 of them (because the Scouts aren't setting up tents for summer camp).  And keep in mind, its trip, not nights because ironically, this schedule does give a Scout 13-15 nights towards their camping merit badge requirement depending on if you count a week of summer camp as 5, 6, or 7 nights (our Troop camped for two consecutive weeks - we used 7 nights as a week).  It does meet the 10 activities, 6 outdoors, 3 camping and setting up tent requirements.  A Patrol might go camping on their own a couple of times but even back then, patrol overnight camping trips were fairly rare. 

If the goal is First Class/First Year, then 6 camping trips a year might be difficult for an averagely active unit that provides a variety of activities. 

Could some of these activities be turned to overnights?  Sure - in theory - until it meets the reality of wives telling their husbands that they need to spend time with the rest of the family. 

I thought it was a mistake to have changed the outing requirements to the "new old" ones in the first place - it seemed to me that the advancement folks were narrowing their definition of "outing" to camping - I, for one, am glad that they've recognized that outing is a lot more than camping - and that they recognized it sooner than later.

I think there is approximately a zero percent chance that the name of the organization will be changed regardless of what other decisions they make. After all, there have been girls in BSA programs for 45 years and it is still the BSA.  "Cub" is a gender-neutral word, so that stays the same.  I guess that for coed and all-girl troops they will come up with a name other than "Boy Scouts."

 

 

The Boy Scouts of America still has the trademark for "Scouting USA"

Girls in.  Scouts of America.  Impact on Congressional Charter?

I don't think there is any impact on the Congressional charter - it says the purpose is to provide training to boys - it doesn't say only boys so that doesn't necessarily preclude offering training to men, women or girls.  If there would be a problem with the charter, that would have occurred a long time ago when Exploring became co-ed.

My Ex was a school teacher and of course she was responsible for creating test questions and she learned an important lesson on the first test she created.  Just because one creates a test question does not always mean one's answer is wrong just because it answer what YOU wanted it to be is not what they put as the answer.  Be careful of what you think you know is what you are asking. 

 

1) A zoologist is a scientist who studies ________________.  Of course we all know the answer to this question is "hard".  

We always answered "empty space" because chances were pretty good that what they were really studying had vanished as they were setting up their spotting scopes.

The only guidance we give is to post any letter to a Scout at camp no later than Monday.  It no longer surprises me the number of parents who send a letter or card to their son on a Thursday when the Troop is returning to home on Saturday.

Supervision must include both a skilled boat driver currently trained in Safety Afloat and a separate observer.

I think the key is this sentence - I read it to mean that the boat driver is considered a supervisor and an aquatics activity supervisor must be 21 years of age or older.  I believe this also means that the official observer must also be an adult 21 years of age or older because the observer is also a supervisor. 

How else is the kid going to earn motor-boating?

 

Whatever you do, don't let some hack like me get behind the wheel!

Motor-boating Merit Badge does not include towing skiiers (or anything else) behind a boat.

I have never encountered anyone who has asked a group of young men whom among them was an Eagle Scout and then follow-up by asking about Palms. 

I don't know anyone who was not involved in Scouts who knows there is something called an Eagle Palm.

I have rarely met an Eagle Scout who talked about how many Palms they earned after getting their Eagle Scout award.  Those that do, tend to have more than three and what they're really bragging about is the number of merit badges they earned.

Eagle Palms are a bit of a throwback to the old Star, Life and Eagle ranks - for those unfamiliar with the history, Star, Life and Eagle were not originally ranks like Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class.  First Class was the highest rank you could get.  Star, Life and Eagle were awards for getting Merit Badges.  The Life badge came first and was awarded to First Class Scouts who earned First Aid, Athletics, Lifesaving, Personal Health and Public Health merit badges.  Star was next just for earning another 5 merit badges.  Eagle Scout was awarded when 21 merit badges were earned (and now you know why Eagle Scouts have to earn 21 merit badges).

When Star, Life and Eagle Scout were made ranks, Palms were developed as the new merit badge awards.

I'm really not all that opposed to any of these changes.  Lets remember what the Merit Badge program is really for.  Other than the 13 required for Eagle badges, this part of the program is really designed for Scouts to explore vocations and avocations that they might carry over in to adulthood, or the learn more about subjects that they might be interested in.  While earning them all might sound impressive, I question whether the Scouts that earned them all really learned anything from them.  The idea behind palms was to encourage Scouts to keep earning Merit Badges which continues to contribute to a Scouts personal growth.   If a Scout has earned 20 merit badges beyond what they need at Eagle, what motivation do they have to earn more if they can just hang out exhibiting leadership in 3 months increments and earn 4 palms in a year. 

I'd be much more impressed if instead of banking on merit badges they already earned, they earned the merit badges for palms while they were Eagle Scouts.  To that end, how about creating a second set of "palms" - maybe an Oak Leaf - to differentiate additional merit badges earned before Eagle Scout and those earned After.  If you earned 15 additional merit badges before Eagle Scout, you get a Bronze, a Gold and a Silver Oak Leaf (or maple, or elm, or cottonwood) award and those earned after Eagle Scout earn Palms?

I agree with eliminating the BOR - for most units, it's hard enough to schedule a BOR for regular ranks, let alone Palms.  Lets remember the main purpose of a BOR - it's not to test Scouts, its to see how the Scout is doing, what they like about the Troop, what they like about the Program.  While all that can be learned in a good Scoutmaster Conference, the BOR is the committees opportunity to hear it first hand.  By the time a Scout is an Eagle Scout, the committee is already going to have a pretty good idea of what a particular Scout enjoys and doesn't enjoy, and how a particular Scout thinks.  Is there really any more value to hearing from them every three months thereafter?  A Scoutmaster Conference should be more than sufficient for Palms.

Frankly, I'd have no problems just eliminating the time in service requirements altogether. Unless you're dealing with a super-scout, I suspect most Scouts will take about 3 months to earn 5 more merit badges anyway.

I recognize that change is something that is never accepted readily but after the initial "they've done it again" eye-rolls and complaints, I suspect that things will settle in and in a couple of years, most of us will have forgotten how it was once done until a parent or a new leader comes on to the board and asks why some Scoutmaster or Advancement Chair is insisting on using the old rules for Palms.

 I recall similar activities in my dorm in college. The guys just kind of said, "Hey, let's watch a movie in our boxers." and we went, "Yea, that's cool." So, yea, I guess it was planned, but it was not weird or anything. It was a bonding experience.

 

Ummm - yeah, Robby - sorry to say - that's just a little weird.