InquisitiveScouter

1 minute ago, DuctTape said:

Dogs and cats living together.

https://youtu.be/-9NMt42il4Q

42 minutes ago, SSScout said:

What would happen today?

Mass hysteria...

1 hour ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

Scouts: "We promote conservation."

Also Scouts: 'If we sell this camp, we can put in new toilets at our other camp!"

"Oh! And let's log it for more cash before we sell it!"

22 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Pretty neat. I wonder if the team only shoots 22 LR?

LOL, you farceur!

1 hour ago, Tron said:

Phantom members might become a thing with this new 3x3 rule coming out; not for new units but for old units that start to hemorrhage members to new competition. I know in my town there are several leaders from the various different units talking about getting together and starting a new unit when this 3x3 rule rolls out. The side conversation is which of the existing units is going to fold as our town just does not have enough kids to support another troop, but we know the new troop will out perform at least 1 of the existing troops; especially when it grows to 6 or more scouts. 

3x3 rule??

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

Thanks.  I've never seen that one before.  Interesting how they publish ineligible names publicly.  

https://uscenterforsafesport.org/

Almost 22,000 names.  I would support BSA having a list like this for parents to see.  Bolsters transparency. 

Although, I'm uncomfortable with them publishing the names of those with "Alleged Misconduct."  They should keep those to themselves until the defendant goes through due process.

Publishing them there makes them guilty in the court of public opinion.

8 hours ago, Eloisefig said:

Hi,

I’m leading ILST training for our troop next weekend. In reading the syllabus, in Module 2, I’d like to show the troop meeting and PLC videos, but when I go to the revamped site, I don’t see them. Can anyone post links to these?

Thanks 

Pretty sure these are they:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsYfr1oVDc&ab_channel=TroopLeader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxsjXWfkZIU&ab_channel=TroopLeader

3 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

Speaking of legal issues, this story popped up in multiple news feeds this past week.

The boy was on a jet ski and was struck by another jet ski owned by the local scout council and operated by a camp staffer. Very sad.

Tennessee parents sue Boy Scouts after death of 10-year-old son (usatoday.com)

Wondering if they were wearing helmets?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMp317MawbE

Cannot believe BSA G2SS does not require helmets on PWCs.  But, some literature does mention it...

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Handbook-of-Personal-Watercraft-Basics_HB.pdf

or water skiing, for that matter.

Once, as a Scout (back in the 20th century, lol) I was water skiing.  Another Scout was driving the boat, with an experienced adult on board.  They were probably going about 20-25 miles per hours, as I was pretty light, and a novice.  The Scout went into a small-radius turn.  I tried to stay on the skis while making the turn with the boat (and I was on a long rope), not really knowing my own limits and lack of skill...

While whipping around the outside of the turn, I dug a tip into the water and went face first (with eyes open) ... at about 35 miles per hour by my estimation (and the math works..)

Force of the water blinded me for a bit, gave me a bloody nose, and ripped my suit down to my ankles.  Thank God for life jackets!

Can you imagine traveling on a personal watercraft at even higher speeds, and taking a spill??

14 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

See the quote below from that page. I didn’t catch what he did there at first. Can you spot the change in restatement about what is not changing?

“It’s also important to note what’s not changing: we remain Scouting’s National Honor Society; fellowship, cheerfulness and service remain at the core of who we are;”

 

Fortunately, one Lenni Lenape word for "Fellowship" is Witauchsundowagan. So, also begins with W!  No need to change logos!!

"...that binds us in fellowship, Witauchsundowagan."  Hmmm... have to add a few more notes to the song.  Meh, we are changing everything else, why not!!??

https://substack.com/@seandietrich/p-148425885

No mention of affinity groups here, thank goodness...

8 hours ago, Armymutt said:

We've been told for many years that diversity is out strength.  Now we have various groups wanting to have their own exclusive events and we are told that "Affinity outings strengthen Scouts and Scouters ties to Scouting. They bring us together, they don't divide." by our Council President.    So which is it?  The Boy Scouts was, arguably,  an affinity group.  I'm all for groups hosting Scouting events, but I believe that we are strengthened when all Scouts are invited to participate.  Otherwise, where is the learning?  If you're not inviting all Scouts, exactly how are these events bringing us together?  

"affinity outings"... gobbledygook

"They bring us together; they don't divide."... LOL... more woke gobbledygook.

I'm with you.  We are ALL SCOUTS.  That is what binds us together.

3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

""For over 100 years, the Order of the Arrow (OA) has recognized Scouts and Scouters who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives. This recognition provides encouragement for others to live these ideals as well. Arrowmen are known for maintaining camping traditions and spirit, promoting year-round and long term resident camping, and providing cheerful service to others.""

Like BSA National, OA leaders lost their understanding of the virtues that made Arrowmen exceptional scouts. Camping and cheerful service are full-time responsibilities of themselves. Arrowmen in my council, when I was a scout, were the special forces of scouts. They exemplified living the Scout Oath and Law and they were experts on outdoor skills. Honestly, I was shocked what OA had turned into when I came back in the mid 90s to be a leader.

If I were to go back into scouts, BIG IF, it would be to fix OA in our District. Scouts would be held to always wearing the uniform published in the Scout handbook (only one recognition for OA). Arrowmen would be expected to camp with their troop monthly to be role models for outddoor skills, Cheerful service, and living the Scout Law. They would be trained and expected to know all the skills in the Scout Handbook. They would have a minimum expectation of attending leading service teams, and meetings would be held to train skills and learn and reinforce the virtues of Cheerful Service, Scout Oath, and law. 

Scouts willing to be held responsible for those expectations would be the best of the best and set the standard for all scouts to strive for. Yes, it would be hard work, but it would sort out those scouts and Scoutmasters just looking for another patch. It would not be a program that is attractive to older scouts; it would be a program attracted to dedicated mature scouts. OA would once again be a true scouting honor society.

Barry

Ah, the good old days.

OA is but a shadow of its former self...

Yes, and cash.

7 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

I’d say the troop doesn’t become incorporated, but the adults in troops can form corporations for the benefit of the troop (either parallel to the CharteredOrg or to become the CharteredOrg). 

Yes, like a sort of Booster Club...

6 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Case in point: Greater Tampa Bay Area  Council selling 50 acre parcel of Sand Hill Scout Reservation.

When businessman Larry DiePolder died in 1978, he left about 1,300 natural acres in Hernando County (Sand Hill Scout Reservation) to the Boy Scouts with explicit instructions - the land must never be sold “in any way shape or form” or be used for any commercial purposes, according to his will. DiePolder stated the acreage should serve only for the Boy Scouts to “enjoy the great outdoors and the beauties and benefits of nature.”

...

Despite the wishes outlined by its benefactor, the Greater Tampa Bay Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America is currently in talks to sell a 50-acre portion of the Sand Hill reservation along SR 50 to the Withlacoochee River Electric Cooperative for it to build an administrative office, Scout executive Mike Butler confirmed on Tuesday.

In January, after the Boy Scouts sought a court order to clarify the title on the land, a Hernando County Circuit Court judge ruled the council was not bound to the terms outlined by DiePolder. The ruling states that when his family conveyed the 1,300 acres to the Boy Scouts 45 years ago, the deeds did not include any of the usage restrictions cited in the will.

Those deeds conveyed the Sand Hill property to the Boy Scouts without the restrictions DiePolder outlined in his will. After the Boy Scouts sought the court order clarifying the title, Circuit Court Judge Donald Eugene Scaglione ruled in January that the deeds issued by DiePolder’s son superseded the will and conveyed the land “free and clear of the use restrictions.”

 

DiePolder wrote in his will that if the Boy Scouts ever failed to use the property as he wished, then the land should be given to Hernando County “to be used as a recreational area and park.”

But Hernando County filed a motion consenting to the Boy Scouts clarifying the title. Scaglione ruled that any rights the county had to the land in the will are null and void.

More at source:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/hernando/2024/08/21/boy-scouts-talks-sell-50-acre-slice-brooksville-reservation/

 

Old thread resurrected by @RememberSchiff, but still a good point to touch on...

1 .  Only a legal person or incorporation (legal embodiment to create the same rights as a legal person, so same concept) may own property.

2.  Never, ever, donate the land to a council (or national).  The donor's intent will eventually be subverted to turn it into cash for the council.  (see the ongoing row over Philmont  https://themountainnewswa.net/2019/12/06/philmont-the-national-boy-scout-ranch-cherished-by-millions-of-americans-is-put-in-hock-to-pay-bsa-debts/) I have seen this about a dozen times over my 45+ years with the organization.  If the the donor's intent is to have it used in perpetuity by Scouts, then a trust is perhaps the best way to achieve this.  As mentioned above, spend the couple hundred bucks need to seek out local legal advice and set up the necessary arrangements.  Some reversion of rights and ownership should be meticulously spelled out to ensure the donor's intent is followed for a long time in the future (or perpetuity).

3.  Chartered Organizations come and go.  They host troops over time, and then have times when they do not... I do not recommend donating the land to a Chartered Organization.  The same thing can/will happen as in item 2 above.

4.  Troops can, and do, become incorporated.  It is possible to have a Troop form articles of incorporation in your state, so that they may own (receive legal title to) property.  (BSA recommends against this, simply because they do not want any competition in the grab for funds.  If anyone tells you anything different, run away fast and file them in your "do not have dealing with this person" category.)  Again, if this Troop corporation dissolves, what will happen with the property?  A trust could address this issue.

me, too... twenty or so emails today alone on updated topics

I often ask Scout leaders what they think "high adventure" means...  I get lots of different answers.

The real answer is, "high adventure" is whatever your Scouts say it is 😜

Should be posted here when available:

https://www.scouting.org/about/annual-report/

1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

And where, here on this forum, is the voice (spokesperson) of National???

There'll be no official voice here. Not enough exposure, and no way to generate revenue from it, amongst other things.

On 6/14/2024 at 9:52 AM, fred8033 said:

I love the GTA and G2SS being free as PDFs

Me too, except the pdf of the G2SS is WAYYYYY out of date.

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/

This is a huge foul. 

We often take trips to places with no cell/data service.  I download the pdf to my phone for reference whilst out and about.

@Chisos is correct.  You cannot take a CC off and leave the position blank.

You should be able to drag and drop the new CC first, save the change, then expire the outgoing CC position by moving them to Unit Scouter Reserve. 

On 5/3/2024 at 6:11 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

And, for the history buffs, see page 49 in the attachment, right side, #10.

 

2007 Printing, BSAGuideToSafeScouting.pdf 1.25 MB · 6 downloads

See this post... This policy was solidly in place within the last 20 years, but is no longer found.

1 hour ago, MattR said:

Unfortunately that doesn't encourage them to join scouting. I mean, if so many people know the benefits then why aren't they involved? Thats an important paradox to understand.

It's just my hunch but maybe people are just parroting what they've heard and really have no idea what Scouting is about.

Most scouts, when asked if they are trustworthy,  cheerful,  friendly, etc, will say yes because the scout law says "a scout is ..." so they must be. I've come to the conclusion that I'm none of those things. I certainly try but I'll never live up to that standard. It's easy when everything is going right but wind and cold and hunger and whiny kids and traffic and some other guy being an idiot and, when I'm doing really well, I can hopefully stay ahead of that welling up of anger and just let it go. It's the difference between selfish and selfless and everyone fights that battle. I don't know, maybe a long time ago everyone realized how hard that battle is but these days selfish has won. Teenagers tend towards selfish because they don't have much experience but it seems so much harder now. Or maybe it's always been a struggle.

Either way, we all want absolutes and no pain for our children and yet, the hardest part of being a parent is coming to terms with the need for struggle. Just like noone wants their child to get sick we've found out that colds are needed to develop a good immune system. So it goes that struggling with selfish is the only way to develop humility. How many parents of 11 year olds understand that? An 11 year old has barely learned to walk when it comes to humility and their parents only know that the struggle they went through as a child is something they don't want for their kids. They look at the kool-aid that character comes from doing requirements and they rightfully have their doubts. Sure, maybe scouts does develop character but not for my kid.

It would be really useful to ask those 90% why they don't put their kids in scouts.

Romans 3:21-28

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.

28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

You realize you will always fall short. Good on you.  What is the remedy?  Grace.  Accept it, brother 😜

5 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Scouter - we will tell you what you need to know and when you need to know it....and be happy we are engaging with the peasant leaders at all

Signed

BSA National Leadership

If we wanted you to have an opinion, we'd give you ours 😜 

34 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

1. Legacy members and Volunteers. 

I grew up in the Scouting program, and the SM and ASMs were the "father figures" I looked up and sought advice from. My fellow Scouts were like brothers to me. In essence Scouting was my surrogate family. I continued on as a Scouter even when I had no kids, because I NEEDED to give back. There was no way I could ever repay my SM and ASMs for every thing they did for me. Closest I could do is give back.

When I did have kids, I wanted them to have some of the same experiences and joys that I had as a Scout, and if possible even better ones.

But the program is not the same as it was. The program has been watered down. Instead of adventure, the focus is now "Getting Eagle." The old standard of advancement was " Master the skills" and "The badge represents what a Scout CAN DO (emphasis added), not what he has done." Now the standard is "A badge recognizes what a Scout has done toward achieving the primary goal of personal growth. " Look at the number "academic" requirements in MBs, as well as purely academic MBs there are these days.  And with National saying they will be "Simplifiying" the Scouts BSA program, there are a lot of concerns, including from BSA "cheerleaders" like Mike Walton about watering down the program further.

And let's not forget the bad treatment of longtime volunteers by not only pros, but also newer volunteers. I have given examples in other posts of the mistreatment of experienced Scouters by pros. But go on some of any social media website, including this one, and you will have newer volunteers denigrating and insulting experienced volunteers and their concerns. I know I have been told in person and online that "you don't know what you are talking about," "(citation from G2SS, G2Am, etc) is wrong you can do..." and 'Scouting needs to change with the times."

So a lot of volunteers , especially on district and council levels, are throwing in the towel. And trust me, it is EXTREMELY hard to replace them with folks witht he same knowledge, skills, abilities, time, and treasure.

2. Nostalgia.

When you hear the terms "Scout," "Eagle", etc folks get images of the Norman Rockwell paintings and  Follow Me, Boys.  Scouting over the years has done so much good, that it has a positive image.

Sadly the paper-pushing is slowly changing that adventure into another classroom.

Worse, the dark side of Scouting is making an appearance, and folks are applying today's standards to activities 40+ years ago. Falsifying membership has slowly been coming out. The biggest obviously is the CSA Scandal. Whether you agree it is BSA's fault or not, it has hurt BSA.

To help the organization survive in a state that they want (instead of looking for ways to change it for the better), BSA professionals expel dissenters.

Although dated, here is a blog which elaborates on this: (not a Daily KOS fan, in general, but I do read stuff there to learn how others think...)

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2006/3/4/191709/-Supressing-Dissent-in-Boy-Scouts-a-model-for-the-GOP

From the writing:

"The combination of lap dog boards and control of senior and middle volunteer management positions give the pros an immensely powerful position from which to block reform (and protect their own positions).  It will take a grass roots rebellion or a determined legal attack at the top to actually reform the system nationally.  Small determined groups with strong ethics and strong stomachs can achieve local results but, unless the tide shifts nationally, the system always tries to return to the old status quo."