yknot
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Posts posted by yknot
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On 2/28/2024 at 9:38 AM, Jameson76 said:
IMHO Scouting's challenges have been that the program and emphasis is pulled in many directions by many different constituencies. Starting really in the 70's the trail has been varied:
- we are going to be urban
- we are going to be less outdoors
- we are going to be more outdoors
- we are going to do sports
- we are going to be involved in inner-city and have council run units
- we are going to be a leadership class for youth
- we are going to be STEM
- we are going to be less advancement focused
- we are going to be more advancement focused
- we are going to be in schools (learning for life)
- we are going to be career focused (explorers)
- we are going to appeal to older teens (venturing)
- we are going to be DEI
- we are going to focus on the family
- we are going to get kids involved even early (Pre-K scouting maybe??)
- NOVA awards
- ATVs at summer camp
- Tech Centers at summer camp
- Cub World summer camps
- merit badge clinics/universities
- Leadership as an addition to the Aims of Scouting
- Soccer and Scouting
- Journey to Excellence
- the Summit
- uniforms designed for indoor and ceremonial wear only;
- etc etc
Just looking at any of these, not bad items, but is this the core competency of the BSA?
In an effort to "Grow" the powers that be have tried to be All Things To All People, the swiss army knife of organizations. In the 70's there was Boypower Manpower with the stated goal to have 1/3 of boys signed up for Scouting and altering the program to meet that goal. That crashed and burned.
Scouts do best outdoors. Market and build on that. Youth need the chance to be youth, lightly supervised and working within groups.
Other youth organizations have met similar challenges of having to adapt to changing demographics and, at least in terms of membership, been able to maintain or succeed where scouting has flagged. In BSA scouting, it's been a decades long leadership problem. Good leadership can motivate and herd the cats into some kind of common path. I think a lot depends on who Roger Krone is and on what he does in the near future.
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12 hours ago, Timbuktu said:
The employees I’ve spoken with didn’t even know about the program. I wouldn’t have even known the council was aware had I not found a 2019 document buried on the website.
Of the three big F1000 employers in our area, the caps are $500/yr, $10k/yr, and $15k/yr *just* for the volunteer hours. All three have some astronomical dollar-for-dollar cap that I can’t imagine anybody hitting unless they’re about to retire.
One of our troops is a 501c3 and they use matching funds from the those three companies pretty consistently (apparently). Idk about the other troops that are registered.
It sounds like the best way to leverage this sort of thing is to be chartered by an American Legion or some other secular nonprofit who’d be willing to earmark most of the donations to Scouting.
Most of these programs are pretty well publicized to the employee and most of the council websites near me have a matching gifts/volunteer button with search tool for volunteers to find out if a company has one. If your council isn't publicizing it, keep bringing it up at Roundtables and see what happens. Keep in mind some people like to keep their giving habits private, so saying they know nothing about it might be an easier way for them to say stay out of my stuff.
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1 hour ago, Timbuktu said:
(2) ...but they're also not logging their hours even though our council is eligible.
It just may mean they are volunteering somewhere else and donating the hours there or even to another charity if they choose. Many of these corporate giving programs are capped in some way. At least that's my understanding.
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4 hours ago, Timbuktu said:
The only people who are logging their hours seem to be ones who are in units that are independent 501c3 orgs
Part of the reason for that might be that many corporate giving programs exclude religious organizations unless it is a separate entity, like a food bank that serves the entire community. If your CO is a church for example many companies won't issue funds unless the scout unit has its own 501c3 and is open to the community at large, not just members of the church.
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1 hour ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
@AwakeEnergyScouter, you might want to read a subdiscussion among some of the regular commentators under the thread "2022 Membership Numbers". It was in Issues & Politics, starting on about the top of page 5 with a post by Eagledad. Click as well on the links in subsequent posts by other regular commentors, although to be fair I don't recall Qwaze in that one, for the illuminating articles and interviews with people like Jordan Peterson and James Damore which some of them posted to support their views, or others agreed with. The discussion dismayingly goes on for about 48 posts to page 8.
Having been part of that discussion two years ago, I don't see any apologies due from your court.
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7 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:
So, there was this District Executive (male) who was rather "rough around the edges" who came to put on a "Boy Talk" at our Pack's and Troop's feeder school ( with a female District Executive who was, is, and remains (after 30 years) the most impressive professional scouter I have ever met.
He always seemed a bit short on sincerity-a bit cocky-so I was not too impressed, but, for some reason, I attended the Boy Talk (now, "Everyone Talk?").
And he said:
"Scouting is the only youth outdoor program (meaning "sports") 'Where everyone can play all of the time.'"
And that struck me for its wisdom.
Sports, driven by coaches seeking records (forgive my generalizing, as I have personal experience, twice, where coaches played every team member and still won championships), but, in my experience, "winning teams" are the one of a dozen or two teams in a league, meaning that the bulk of the participants experience the sense of loss.
I sat many games on the bench, feeling pretty worthless, having endured all the "wind sprints," and training. Benched along with many others. (And, I SHOULD have been benched, as I was pretty lame, well really worthless.) But then again, no one spent a minute coaching me. (And some few years later, I set an endurance record that may still stand to this day, having been previously written off.)
The point is that a youth can participate in the Scouting program-their "competition" is essentially their own drive. And some "select out" from the advancement regime, enjoying campouts and camaraderie, others drive through to Eagle.
And so, the joy and memories of "winning teams" is well-earned, and well-deserved, the purpose of a youth-centered organization is to encourage and uplift the masses.
One star quarterback does not uplift America. (OK, Tom Brady, but even he is a mere exciting spark in what needs to be a glacial move to change society.)
20,000 youth finding encouragement does move the needle. Two million moves the needle even more.
Scouting can be great for many kids but for some it can also feel like they are being benched if they aren't into the increasing focus on advancement and Eagle. About 60 million kids out of 74 million are involved in sports. 4-H has been growing steadily and there are 6.5 million US kids enrolled. Obviously, these activities are increasingly appealing and affordable to a broader range of kids. There are less than a million in scouts and that decline has not been caused by sports or 4-H or anything other than scouting's own difficulties in remaining relevant, relatable and accessible to kids.
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3 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:
But I wonder of the participants, sports or Philmont Trek, which 12 days are remembered more, 30 years on?
It can be extremely memorable, but so can a winning sports season. Kids are individuals and if they and their families have to make choices, they should be making them based on the full picture.
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Cornell's backyard bird count is next week for anyone with interested scouts. It's also a great community awareness/recruitment opportunity.
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32 minutes ago, Ojoman said:
OK FOLKS... THE GENDER ISSUE IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT TOPIC... THE TOPIC HERE IS 'DO WE HAVE A CULTURE OF GROWTH!... CAN WE RETURN TO THE TOPIC???
Well, I think a culture of growth would incorporate different attitudes and practices towards girls in scouting. Does anyone have early 2024 membership numbers yet by the way? That's probably the clearest indication of where we might be headed.
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1 hour ago, Ojoman said:
I've read about the Beaver Wars and native nations fighting each other... quite a different view then is projected today... 400 years doesn't change history... anyway, when you consider how many bodies, bones and mummy's are on display I suppose that can be quite disturbing. I wouldn't want my parents or grandparents dug up and stuck in a display case.
Hi. I didn't say that. You are actually quoting Armymutt.
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4 hours ago, Armymutt said:
I'm not sure how this is a good idea, especially if that tribe engaged in actions that made another tribe go extinct.
Indigenous groups are no different than any of the immigrant groups that have arrived here. These are communities like any other that are capable of working out ways to deal with contentious issues in their past -- there's no difference with anyone else. That's what these laws are meant to do.
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41 minutes ago, Ojoman said:
About 40 years late... During my 30 years as a professional I nearly always had membership growth and not only that but balanced growth. Not only balanced but pretty much by age/grade level. Funny thing, no one ever asked me how I accomplished that. Journey to Excellence if pretty much useless... The measure of a unit should be retention of both youth and volunteer leadership. Quality programs result in retention and growth. Unit support, training, quality roundtables, making sure units have the tools to deliver a high quality experience and are meeting the needs and expectations of kids and parents is the only path to meaningful growth. Sadly, I don't really see that in the promo information.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10219804925433639&set=a.2473191529196
The problem with membership is organizational.
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1 hour ago, PACAN said:
Saw a post on FB that BSA is eliminating the 25 joining fee but not to worry they are raising everyone's annual fee by $5.00
This came out a few weeks ago in the typical BSA dribbling way. The $25 new scout fee was a terrible idea so it's good they got rid of it. I'm still waiting to see 2024 membership numbers. I am guessing membership numbers were lower so it made more financial sense to get $5 from everyone vs. $25 from fewer than anticipated new members.
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19 hours ago, Armymutt said:
I wonder how you repatriate artifacts to extinct tribes.
I don't know how the new law affects this but in the past, affiliated or even unaffiliated tribes had a pathway to request them for funerary ceremonies if remains or if objects for their own musuems.
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1 hour ago, Ojoman said:
Our school district asked the Onondagas for permission to continue to use the word Warrior which is not a native American word but were refused. We could have kept it with their blessing. The district changed their mascot 2 decades ago to a spartan/roman type warrior as a show of respect. Concerns me on any use of or reference to their culture, especially words. Time will tell if Lowanne Nimat Lodge or Longhouse words are allowed.
It's policy in your state as of last year and the policy was enacted with the broad support of tribal associations in your state. Several schools have given up Warrior appelation.
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5 hours ago, scoutldr said:
This has been long overdue and likely will have spillover impact on the BSA's continued inappropriate appropriation of aspects of Native American culture.
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1 hour ago, CLC848 said:
Thank you. How were you able to capture the comments and save them for future use?
Anything notable was discussed at the subsequent committee meeting and became part of the minutes.
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7 hours ago, CLC848 said:
I was asked to pull together a "Lessons Learned" topic looking back on several years of campouts for our Annual Planning Conference. The Troop Committee records have a few high level comments but are mostly logistical issues. SPL is present but generally gives an "it was fine" response; probably somewhat intimidated by adult presence + didn't do any feedback solicitation from the Scouts. Scouts are supposed to do a critique at their meeting(s) following each campout and Scribe is to document but execution seems to be spotty and no one could find anything written.
Looking for ideas that work for others to better capture the Scouts' input in a "Scout-friendly" environment. Thanks!
Our campout critiques were always delivered in the form of roses and thorns at the meeting following the campout. I think the idea that everyone thinks of both a positive comment as well as something that could be improved was helpful to getting useful feedback.
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1 hour ago, Ojoman said:
This may be the last year that we really can get any sort of an accurate year to year membership picture as you point out with individual registrations spread through the year instead of at recharter time. I suspect that one reason for new members paying the whole 12 months up front is to guarantee that National collects a 12 month fee from those that would join in the fall and drop out prior to recharter after only paying for 3 or 4 months.
It will be the last year for at least a full two maybe three year cycle depending on how long they now keep lapsed memberships on the books before there is any stability in the year to year numbers.
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3 hours ago, Ojoman said:
You never know and even with growth it can be deceiving... I always wanted to see the numbers after all the recharters are processed. Year end with most units rechartering in December means the losses don't show up until January and the dropped units I believe still lapse and stay on for 2 additional months so you don't get a true membership picture until March. I believe the district I'm in expects to drop 3 of its 37 units... I would want to see the March to March comparison. By then most crossovers are completed so you get a good picture of if there was growth by program. December might look good and then the losses show up in January and March and the great year end turns out to be a mirage. You know the adage, figures never lie but ....
The past couple of years National has reported growth on January 1 using the December 31 numbers but after March 31 you would see that it was an actual loss not a gain for the reasons you note. Based on what we were shown here in early December, it seemed like that wasn't going to be able to work for 2024. I just wondered if anything had changed. Keep in mind with the new rolling membership strategy, the March recharter cut off may lose some of its significance. I'm not sure how they are going to work it, but I think BSA said new rolling memberships would have a six month renewal grace period so while the charters might be accurate, they might still claim the memberships under the rationale that they are hoping they will transition over to another unit.
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Like PACAN I'm still looking for some national 2023 membership numbers. As far as I can tell, BSA hasnt yet published a year end recap unlike most prior years. The last numbers kindly posted by Malraux didn't seem to trend toward an increase for 2024 but you never know.
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I think they can say you can't do it, but I don't know that they have a way to prevent you from fundraising if you decide to ignore them. The popcorn thing is a huge problem for many units and you would not be alone in going rogue. Far from it. They do have some sticks they can beat you with though so be prepared. Our units opted out -- politely, but firmly -- and endured a lot of threats. But we continued to make an in lieu contribution to council from our new, more successful fundraising efforts and our membership grew, so within a year or two they left us alone. Hopefully you're in a reasonable council.
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1 hour ago, skeptic said:
Okay, finally we can see apparent proof that the BSA issue is part of the larger problem in our country, and probably most of the world if other countries mirror us in some manner. I was called names and worse when I tried to point out that BSA was being singled out while a greater problem likely exists throughout the youth serving agencies.
Keep in mind there are currently 75 million school children in the US and close to to 10 million adults working in K-12 educational settings each year. While CSA is a concern in any setting where adults have access to kids, the numbers in scouting spike high given the relatively small slice of the population involved.
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2 hours ago, Tron said:
Scouting is a time and money drop in the bucket compared to league play sports. My 1 buddy was gritching about the commitment and money sink to be a CM, my other buddy laughed and was like "Dude! I just paid $3500 for my daughter to play volleyball for the next 3 months so she can stay in form and have a chance of making the varisity team next year; he then went on to say it was mandatory for him to attend away games which included driving as far as Minneapolis and St. Louis (from Chicago). The issue is not time, the issue is not money, the issue is responsibility. People are lazy and they collapse under the weight of being expected to show up on time with a box of crayons.
There is no point comparing sports to scouts, either as an activity or as an expense. Ten days at Philmont can break down to be just about as much.
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DEI is an acronym for Don't Expect Improvement
in Order of the Arrow
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Those percentages are a function of the fact that more children are cared for by women with, in many cases the fathers absent or marginally present, and how laws don't extend any culpability to fathers. The study you posted here elucidates that on page 10. When a pregnant woman abuses drugs and is charged with child abuse, the state doesn't also charge the father who may have not only taken the drugs with her but may have even supplied them.