yknot

8 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

That depends on the geographic area I would think. My parents in my pack had no idea there was a lawsuit going on until I told them about it (I'm very transparent about things that go in in the scouting world). They didn't seem to care either since our program is pretty safe. It could be our small-town community feel though. 

I think some places are lucky and have a very competent CM or SM, or a well run unit, or a functional council. That can be a very mixed bag around the country though.

1 hour ago, NDW5332 said:

About 10 years ago, I worked our Pack's recruitment table at a back-to-school night.  One prospective parent said, "My son wants to do Cub Scouts, but I'm not sure it's safe enough for him."  I explained explained that there are barriers to abuse, 2-deep leadership, no one on one contact with adults, everyone is trained, etc...  She then gives me, "I don't just mean abuse, how are you going to keep my son safe." I added that as a parent of a Tiger, they would be present at everything and could see for themselves what goes on. Camping is family camping.  The family never signed up, and despite the child's desire to join Scouting, the parent's were against it, and "Safety" was "The Reason" they gave their son why he couldn't do it, so we, Scouting" were the bad guys,.

That's a perception issue that the child sexual abuse history has obscured: public perceptions of overall competence and program safety is not great.  For example, this summer, some camps were desperately advertising for volunteers at their shooting ranges by stating 'no training needed, we'll train you'.  Did not instill confidence in the program overall no matter how good the RSO might have been. 

45 minutes ago, swilliams said:

I loathe fundraising.  It wouldn't be too terrible if it were just for scouting, but with active kids it's non-stop, year-round.  Scouts twice a year, marching band basket raffle and Gertrude Hawk, lacrosse cornhole tournament and bagels, swimming (both winter high school and summer club swim) swim-a-long pledges and winter sports night donations...  It's too much.  I refuse to continue asking our neighbors and friends to give money, even if they're getting something out of it. 

At our last committee meeting we had a loooong discussion of how much we would ask for our dues, how many adults we were going to have to register, how to pay for the adults and the increased National and Council dues and how much fundraising we could realistically expect.  We decided to make the dues $200, drop two or three committee members from the charter, and continue to pay for adult participants from Troop funds.  We do charge per trip, and I want to see us come up with some trips that are close to free - state campgrounds, stealth camping off the AT for older scouts, etc. 

Maybe even teach them to make acorn flour and forage for dandelion roots and chickweed. 🤣

Kid fundraising is indeed out of control and I have also become increasingly sensitive to the financial and time challenges faced by some families. There is a lot of free stuff out there and sometimes it helps to get off the unit/district/roundtable/council/BSA bandwagon/herd and scout around for random stuff you can find on your own. I don't know what level you are, cubs or troop, but there is a 4th grade free national parks pass that can be used to get 4th graders and several family members into most national properties, not just parks, for free. Many YMCA's offer free year long trial memberships to middle school age students and we have been able to use the connection to get free or very cheap access to Y facilities, like an after hours pool session. Kids Bowl Free is offered during the summer. Check out all your local tourism and leisure industry boards to see what kinds of youth events and deals they offer. A ski region near us had a winter kid pass for late afternoon/night skiing that was dirt cheap. Combined with someone finding a nearby church basement, it made for a very cheap winter ski camp in. We also developed a list of municipal, private camp, land trust, and private property sites that would allow us to camp for free mostly off season.  I've done free youth events with local chapters of Audubon, Trout Unlimited, Ducks Unlimited, the national weather service, the US Patent and Trademark office, etc.  

5 hours ago, jcousino said:

I agree will the above but where are the parents in this situation? It was hard to fix a problem that has its roots in the home. Not a bad or abusive home but one where there are no controls taught or placed.  "Johnie can do no wrong."  I would be very careful on what you as the troop do as the parents may be unwilling to see that little Johnie is in the wrong, but only see that the adults/troop are being very mean to their perfect child. A report made to scouting about the way you delt with their child may be hard to defend based on scouting current rules and practices. 

Parenting methods have changed a lot in the past decade or so but the pandemic didn't help and many of these parents who were juggling kids and working at home short circuited right alongside the kids to some degree. That's not an excuse, but it is another challenge.  A little household destruction was considered the price of staying employed while parents locked themselves in the closet for zoom meetings.  Normally in scout led you would let scouts come up with the meeting programing but in this case I might try to actively schedule some cool things and speakers to hold their attention for awhile. It can help the younger ones learn to focus through actual interest and give the older ones a break until they mature a little more. We also had a bathroom trashed so we did things like sign out sheets, one at a time, adults monitoring who was out of the room, etc. 

The pandemic has had a noticeable effect on child development and what might have been reasonable expectations before are not at present for some of these kids. There has been a lot of discussion about this in the educational community because teachers are continuing to deal with it in the classroom and that would be a good place to look. In general, these kids need more social intervention, not less, so suspension might not be productive. Expecting peers to be able to manage this along old youth led models also may not be productive because they are experiencng some of the same deficits. From what I've read and done, smaller group sizes, more mentoring, and giving more explicit and direct and sometimes repeated instructions is helpful. Bad behavior is bad behavior and has to be dealt with, but some of these kids need perhaps more adult supervision and mentoring than scouters may have been comfortable with in the past.  

On 10/21/2023 at 8:28 AM, yknot said:

Just so you know, I interviewed Garfield and he was only in scouting for the lasagna. 

I'm not kidding. All the scouting images are of his stunt double except for the weenie roast with Odie. He did that one because there was food. 

2 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

Agreed it would be impractical for most units. I was actually thinking along the lines of the Council operating a "mini-camp" closer to one of its population centers. Barring some type of enrollment boom, it would almost certainly require a major donation or the closing of a "full-size" council camp, but consider the possibilities:

• Available for Unit Meetings (Monday - Thursday)
• Available for Unit Outings and District Events (Weekends)
• Summer Day Camps / Merit Badge Clinics for Scouts, BSA
• Cub Scout Day Camps

Driving an hour or more (both ways) to a Scouting even is a significant barrier to retention. That eats up your whole day. Driving 20 minutes? That's more like an errand ~ Maybe Mom hits up Starbucks on the way there and Target on the way home?

I know this suggestion is a bit out there, but for some councils, a well-located "mini-camp" could better serve its members than a traditional, full-size, remote council camp.

I don't think it's out there I think some councils already do a version of that type of thing. One of the ones here runs short session summer camps that seem to rotate around the council at different park facilities for a week at a time. I don't think councils are going to have the wherewithal to buy property, I think they are going to have to look for partnerships and facility usage agreements. I think the traditional chartering organization model is dying and councils are going to fulfill more of that role without investing in real estate. 

2 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I'm envious of this facility - and that's strictly for one unit? Wow.

I live in the suburbs of a mid-size city. Scouting is still pretty strong in the metro area (not what it used to be, but hanging in there). Unfortunately, our closest council camp is about a 90-minute drive for most families. That doesn't work so well for your average over-scheduled young family.

I'd love to see the Scouts operate a small camp within a 20-minute drive of the population center - it wouldn't have to be a big production. Just one nice building like the one pictured above, a few campsites, and some trails. It could be a haven for weekend activities and maybe get some use on weeknights too.

I think owning and managing a site would be difficult today for most units. There are a couple former scout "huts" in my area that are either nonfunctional or in other hands with some continued scout access. We had a lot of luck working with private land trusts or municipalities to gain camping sites and access. We were also to develop relationships to use several private camps for local off season camping. We camped several times midweek when our school districts had random days off for professional development, parent conferences, etc.    

2 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I recently bought some used pins online featuring Garfield (the orange tabby cat) wearing a Cub Scout uniform. My plan is to use them for awards at Pack meetings when we have Den competitions ~ the winning Den can add a pin to their flag. Searching eBay for scout pins sparked a bit of nostalgia for me, since I remember Garfield from the comic strip and his Saturday morning cartoon show on CBS.

Best I can tell, the BSA has used Garfield-branched merch on at least 3 separate occasions:

• 1978: They produced a set of pins with Garfield (this was also the first year the comic strip went into syndication)
• 1989: The BSA releases another set of Garfield pins for the 1989 National Jamboree
• 1999: Garfield is featured in a variety of promotional materials, including pins, pens, and stuffed animals

Does anyone know of other instances where Garfield has been used to promote the BSA?

What about other cartoons or co-branded merch?

Just so you know, I interviewed Garfield and he was only in scouting for the lasagna. 

6 hours ago, skeptic said:

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2023/10/18/getting-to-know-glen-pounder-the-bsas-youth-protection-executive/

This is a step away from the accusatory material too often showing up, IMHO.  Most importantly, Mr. Pounder, while noting huge mistakes and the need for the BSA committee, which he addresses, but he also notes the failures of the larger protection communities in the past.  Take a look and please note that I am not saying what occurred in the past is okay, only that our approaches today are in need of breadth across society.  And this seems a step in that direction, especially the mention of his other connections with the challenge.  

One thought that came to me as I was reading and listening was that in some ways, this recognition is what James West had when he took the job.  The early efforts with the manual IV files were under his watch, and he was even then recognized as a leader in the protection of youth.  He died in the mid forties, I believe just before the end of the War.  And most of the issues today came into being after his loss.  Just have to wonder if he and others in his connections might have directed us differently in those decades after the War.  

I'm glad to see this because he's largely been a cipher after more than 6 months in the role. He said more changes are coming and if so that's good and I'll take him at his word. 

12 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

Wow, another fatal wound to the Order of the Arrow.  It looks like the National whoever realized that no matter how they propogandized, pushed and bullied the OA, they just couldn't handle the blowback from most of the local lodges concerning removing Native american regalia, clothing or dress (whatever is politically correct) during ceremonies.  So, in their wisdom and treachery,  banned all AIA activities at NOAC.  I guess whoever fails to realise that many or even most lodges really enjoy AIA activities and are dedicated to the dance, dress, music and ceremonies of the AIA.  It will be interesting to learn how this decision effects the number of NOAC participants and therefore the money.  It will be interesting to see just how many lodges that have been preparing for AIA events for years just don't bother attending. Just food for thought.  I would suggest that every Lodge Advisor call the national office and voice their opinions.   Oh, never mind,  they don't answer the phone😑

I'm not sure BSA did that directly but since University of Colorado Boulder is one of the leading universities concerned with NA issues it's an appropriate place to hold NOAC but an unlikely place to host AIA type events. UCB's NA center basically led the fight with the NFL to change team names. 

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Oct 13, 2023

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine signed a new law  guaranteeing more settlement money to Ohio Boy Scout abuse victims.

"...Ohio’s current civil statute of limitations in bankruptcy cases was 12 years. That’s now void for the next five years, meaning Boy Scout abuse victims filing a claim will receive all the money they’re owed through the settlement, rather than just 30 to 45% of it.

Ohio is the first state to take advantage of the settlement’s provision allowing states to extend the statute of limitations, according to sponsors Republican Rep. Bill Seitz."

@Eagle1970

Source:

https://apnews.com/article/ohio-boy-scout-abuse-victim-4844328d24a9aabbfec9a0077c632303

Anyone know what that means? Was that anticipated when the trust was established? 

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

We are paying for Granddaughter's soccer.  $265 per month.  Scouting is still a bargain.  Just matter of priorities.

Scouting is only a bargain when other people volunteer. 

29 minutes ago, Tron said:

The price is nothing. Literally super cheap compared to most anything else. It's $80 a year, councils can match that and bring the total to $160. In comparison it's the heart of high school football season right now and the average family spends $671 a season on football; that's right $671 for 12 weeks of participation(about a million participants a season). The couch potatoes are about to spend $167 a year for Disney+ (just over 147 million subscriptions in the US). 

Scouting is cheap compared to just about anything else you want to compare it to; sports, gaming, tv. 

Costs and relative value for any youth activity are pretty dependent on where you are, what kind of council and unit you are in, and how involved your scout and family want to be in it. You can spend thousands on a couple seasons of a travel sport; you can spend thousands on a HA trip or jambo type events. One of the initial sticker shock problems with scouting is that there is no gradual on ramp; you pretty much pay the same to try it out as a cub scout as you do to rejoin as a seasoned troop level scout. That's not the case with most other youth activities geared for the elementary level age groups and it is a deterrent. 

You're welcome. Migration is often thought of as a daytime event, which it is for many species, especially the very visible raptors, or because of what is seen during local fallouts and daytime feeder visits. Songbird migration, though, at least on the wing, is largely a nighttime phenomenon. Hopefully things like Birdcast will help build an appreciation for what is overhead on many nights in the spring and fall. The recent full moons in the northeast have been great for showing this to kids.

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

And some of the biggest impacts (no pun intended) on birds?  Outdoor cats and windmills...

And don't forget the bats!! https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-are-bats-affected-wind-turbines

 

If we're talking biggest impact on migratory songbird species overall, it's habitat loss, degradation, and human intrusion up and down their flyways, migration routes, and at breeding and wintering sites. Migration as a species survival mechanism is struggling to navigate the modern world. All these things play into that. Don't get me started on turbines... 

28 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Migrating birds and hurricanes...

"Many people don’t realize that most birds migrate at night. At the height of fall migration in the U.S., that means that under favorable migration conditions, there are hundreds of millions of birds passing overhead as we sleep. When dawn breaks, these migrating birds drop down into the landscape below them to eat, drink, and rest until the next night when, if in good condition, they can continue their nocturnal migration journey....millions of birds were likely migrating south when Hurricane Lee swept through off the Maine coast.

The remnants of Hurricane Lee made it all the way to Ireland and Great Britain, carrying with it some of these same migrating birds who now found themselves in very unfamiliar territory. They had intended to end up in the southern U.S. on their way to the Caribbean, or Central or South America. Instead, the land they sighted was on the other side of the North Atlantic..."

 

 

 

Links below have further explanation from Jeffrey V. Wells, Ph.D., a Fellow of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology and Vice President of Boreal Conservation for National Audubon.

https://www.boothbayregister.com/article/lobsterman-sees-birds-falling-sky/178611

https://www.penbaypilot.com/article/unprecedented-invasion-american-migrants-arrives-britain-and-ireland/179094

Scout Salute to 5th generation lobsterman Jacob Knowles.

Thank you. Nice piece. Lots of stuff gets blown around this time of year. Glad to hear of some things making it back on course. 

This article noted nocturnal migration. For anyone who isn't aware of Birdcast, this is a second/third generation radar mapping resource run by Cornell and Colorado. It tracks noctural songbird migration and weather begining about three hours after sunset during peak periods, like now, and is a great visual to use for kids--kind of like Norad's Santa tracker for the little guys except it's real. If the forecast is good and there is a bit of a moon, have them aim their binoculars up to see dozens, hundreds, if not thousands of birds flying overhead in the night skies. 

https://birdcast.info/migration-tools/live-migration-maps/

The article also talks about a few hundred million birds. Sounds like a lot, but many of these species have had population declines of 50%-70%. At one time, a few hundred million of something would be a large flock or two. Not helping is that nocturnal migration has increasingly become a bird obstacle course, with hazards from illuminated skycrapers and proliferating light pollution to increased human intrusion into the night skies with everything from drones to fireworks to laser pointers.

Many of our oaks apparently didn't cross pollinate this year due to weather conditions earilier in the year. Sterile acorn husks started dropping over the summer and we're getting' next to nuttin' now... 

5 hours ago, Tron said:

What do we know about this mechanism for the public to search for YPT violations? Is it a website? Do we enter the state/council/unit number and a list of YPT violations (potentially redacted) populates? I am curious as I would just like to know, and I am also curious to know if a unit folds and a new unit replaces it at the same CO with a different unit number will the search return zero results on that unit? 

I believe it's fairly amorphous right now. My understanding is that it is part of the settlement, but no real description was given or any kind of timeline. It could start to materialize in one year or ten from what I read. Would be interested to know if anyone else has more complete information. if it's limited to convictions, it will be pretty useless. 

22 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Today I learned that Narragansett Council owned a significant fraction of the State of Rhode Island.

Are you sure about that? I know the Narragansett tribe once did. 

At least the land will not fall to development and should still have public access. 

It's seems like its been pretty standard in most places for a long time.

Edit: In fact I would say in general a lot of security measures have been very robust in schools and other youth settings, such as security cameras, the presence of LEOs, adults and staff also having to wear photo ID badges, anonymous threat reporting systems, etc.  

6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Better to catch the 3%, but will the fingerprints catch what the background check won’t/didn’t? I hate this statistic.

“The fingerprint scans will only show if there is a criminal history record. For an offender to have a criminal record they must first be convicted of a crime. Only 3% of all predators are ever convicted. Background checks will not catch roughly 97% of predators. Why? Because there are many steps that must happen for a conviction to occur. Each step only reduces the chances the predator will be charged with a crime.”
 

http://www.o.com/blog/2019/8/22/quit-relying-on-background-checks-and-sex-offender-registries-to-protect-children#:~:text=Background checks will not catch,be charged with a crime.

Things don't always show up on background checks. Parental searches have turned up convictions, charges, and headlines that have resulted in people being removed from kid facing roles despite having passed recent checks. I don't know what to make of that except maybe one of the youth protection guidelines should be for parents to also do searches. People who repeatedly slide out of accusations reported in headlines without charges or convictions should be a red flag but not sure if they are picked up on these checks. 

3 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I don't know much about the local youth basketball program since my son is only in 1st grade, so I just signed up to be a parking lot attendant for a few of the high school's home games - basically, I just need to direct the visiting team to the gym and make sure no grandparents slip on the ice. Easy enough.

What I like about the basketball club's volunteer model is 1) they didn't charge me to volunteer and 2) their baseline assumption is that I'm not out to endanger children (sarc). I'm just a dopey dad who doesn't mind freezing his buns off in mid-February to make sure people get to and from the game safely - that was good enough for them.

I've volunteered in several youth organizations and the only thing I've had to pay for was $12 for fingerprinting to be a coach and then an overnight chaperone. In return, I've gotten discount fees for my kids, free food, and had things like identifying shirts provided free or at a discount. I'm not aware of anything BSA does. Some units, if they have the money, pay for their key adult registrations but that is not something that the national BSA has a provision for.   

1 hour ago, vol_scouter said:

This is the first time that I have heard about the possibility of requesting a driver's license (DL) or some other form of government issued identification (ID).  My guess is that the concern was who would be responsible to check such an ID?  The Scout Master when a registration is turned into the Troop?  The Chartered Organization is actually responsible but are nearly never present.  Many IDs have shading to prevent copying, and no one will leave a DL with someone to get it checked in a day or two.  Would have been helpful to have asked for an explanation.

Presenting a driver's license in order to gain access to areas that kids are in, for example a school, has been SOP in a lot of places for a long time. As an adult overnight chaperone, I have had to wear a photo ID lanyard and present a DL whenever accessing areas where kids were present. I imagine for someone like Johnson, coming from mainstream law enforcement, that would have seemed like an eggs and toast issue.