Treflienne

@sst3rd you meant "scout troop for girls" not "girls scout troop"   (since GSUSA is suing BSA over this issue)

Having just gotten a new troop started I agree about the getting out camping first.   And actually (this advice was from @Eagledad) the early troop meeting activities can be preparing or developing skills for those first outings.

Eventually they will realize they need a patrol name in order to make Scout rank -- that can wait until they realize it.

35 minutes ago, sst3rd said:

Only start the troop (boys and/or girls) when you know you have the resources set.

Once you have five enthusiastic girls eager to get started, then start the girls troop -- don't make them wait any longer.    Gradually the other things will begin to get sorted out, or if not you will improvise.

On 8/3/2019 at 12:22 PM, Eagledad said:

Ask each scout 3 things they learned at the course that they would like to try in the troop.

In your experience, does this work best to ask each scout individually,  or to get them all together (the scouts from the troop who went through NYLT together) so that they can hear each others' answers?    Negatively, all together, and the quieter ones might just follow the lead of the more dominant.  Positively, all together and they may build on each others' ideas.

On 8/3/2019 at 8:01 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Here is a link to the 2014 Syllabus

Thanks.  That was very helpful.

On 8/3/2019 at 8:01 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

1. Make sure the PLC is meeting on a regular basis to plan and prepare. You would be surprised at the number of troops that do not do this.

The troop  has been having a 1x/month PLC meeting. Seems not enough.  We may need to add the 15-minute mini-meeting ("huddle"?) prior to each troop meeting.  And also the post-troop-meeting brief PLC meeting.  Opinions?  

On 8/3/2019 at 8:01 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

go through Wood Badge

Am signed up for one in about half a years' time.   But there will be a few months until then.

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

The contrast between the two programs

I think that the big contrast between BSA and GSUSA is the program materials, not the volunteers.   In fact, as I have been getting involved with BSA, I am seeing  people I met in GSUSA (who were volunteering with their daughters' troops) also volunteering with BSA (with their sons packs/troops).

49 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

GS leaders leading their troop of girls at GS Summer Camp like a mother hen leading chicks was opposite.

8 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Ah, maybe not summer camp (20 years ago), but some kind of overnight camping for the council area.

Really depends on the particular GS leaders.   I've seen GS leaders happy to send scouts, in pairs, all over the camp from Juniors (grades 4-5) onwards.   BSA has much more detailed regulations -- and I have certainly seen people in BSA unsure whether they can allow the (middle school) scouts to head out in pairs away from adult eyes, given the two-deep leadership rule.

P.S.  Summer camp is, in my opinion, currently the best part of the GSUSA program.  (It has, to a great extent, resisted the modernization trends in GSUSA.)

And it is great for the scouts when the supervising "adults" are the ages of their older siblings and older cousins, rather than the age of their parents.

On the other hand, BSA summer camp struck me has having a LOT more resources (there was clearly a lot of money behind the camp, somewhere).  There were many many fun activities for the scouts, requiring lots of expensize equipment.

My daughter likes both kinds of scout camp, and wants to continue to attend both.

28 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

So her reaction to all the GS leaders leading their troop of girls at GS Summer Camp like a mother hen leading chicks

Something sounds wrong here.  Girl Scout leaders do not go to summer camp with their scouts.  

My daughter's reaction to summer BSA camp was that it was great -- but there was one thing that GS camp did better: At BSA camps you have to take your mother with you if she is scoutmaster, but at GS camps you have to leave your mother behind if she is the girl scout troop leader.

Girl Scouts sign up for camp as individuals, they do not go with their troops.  They are grouped into units with other girls, from other town and troops, who they have probably never met before. GS camps are mostly staffed by college students.  These college students are the ones supervising the scouts in their units at night.  There may be a few "real adults" (parent-aged adults) around, such as the camp director and the camp nurse, but the scouts (hopefully) have very little interaction with them.

At BSA camp, in my opinion,  it felt like there was a huge number of adults around compared to the number of scouts.  The amount of adult hovering seemed much greater than I remember from GS camps in my youth, or from what my daughter tells me about GS camps in recent years.

2 hours ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

Other countries had their Girl Guide/Girl Scout units there with their contingent because in many countries the girl organizations are members of both WOSM and WAGGGS (they're apparently known as "SAGNOs", although I do not know what that stands for). I saw a few uniforms there from other countries that had patches on them that had both the World Crest and WAGGGS logo.

Apparently a SAGNO is a "Scout and Guide National Organization",  a joint organization of Boy Scouts and Girl Guides/Scouts within a country.

Which raises the issue of whether to register the girls with  with WOSM, WAGGGS, or both

https://www.wagggs.org/en/about-us/membership/types-membership/

http://euroscoutinfo.com/2011/06/23/european-sagnos-register-girls-and-young-women-to-wosm/

http://www.skatamal.is/english/

On 4/25/2007 at 3:26 PM, Eagledad said:

We found that most scouts come back pretty hyped up from the course. But interestingly the main complaint about the course was basically the same from the scouts and adults. They didnt see any noticeable difference in Troop program and performance after the scouts came back from the course. The scouts complained the adults wouldnt let them try the new skills, and the adults were frustrated the scouts werent using any new skills.

 

Further study found that the problem was the adults didnt really know what the scouts learned; therefore they didnt know how to help the scouts take advantage and use the new skills. The scouts on the other hand didnt really make an effort to use their new skills because they didnt really know how to implement new habits and skills into the existing environment, which was much different from simulated program in the course.

Hi Barry ( @Eagledad ) and company,

I realize this is resurrecting a very old thread. 

But do you have any advice for the adults on how to help the scouts take advantage of and use the new skills they have learned at NYLT when they come back to their troops?   I have three scouts going to NYLT later this summer . . . and yes I really don't know what the scouts are going to learn there.

5 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

 BSA finally came around to the idea of allowing neckerchief wear with activity uniforms and non-uniform clothing.  The purpose is to make it possible to identify youth and youth groups as Scouts when they are out being active -- camping, hiking, working on service projects.  That is, to raise the visibility of Scouting in the community even when youth aren't in recognizable uniforms.  And as RichardB notes, it is a widespread practice around the world. 

4 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

in the fashion of many of our international Scouting cousins, often when not in the official uniform. 

As a kid, a GSUSA Girl Scout in Europe,  the scouts in my troop made completely unofficial neckerchiefs to wear for activities for which our uniform was inappropriate.  When wearing our neckerchiefs we were immediately recognizable as some variety of guide/scout.  (There were multiple scouting/guiding organizations in that country.)   Ironically, when wearing our GSUSA uniforms we were not recognized as guides/scouts but were (at least once) mistaken for flight attendants.

2 hours ago, SubSM said:

How are the troops with mixed age patrols handling campouts?

On some camping trips the tent arrangments have been almost completely determined by (1) the 2-year rule and (2) the desire to separate sisters so that they have more of a chance to get to know the other scouts.

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

I have never seen scouts with more than a two year difference want to tent with each other.

My troop has a 30-month age spread.  The scouts go to different schools and they are not so aware of the exact ages of the other scouts.  They all seem to get along well with each other.  I have definitely had scouts request to tent together for summer camp who were more than 24 months apart in age (probably without being aware of the exact age difference).   It would be *much* simpler for us if the allowable age difference were 2.5 years or 3 years. 

On 7/21/2019 at 10:22 PM, Treflienne said:

Only difference has been how provo campers are being handled.  So far the (very few) provo girls are being placed with girls troops who are at camp that week and who have offered to host them.

How is your camp handling girl provo campers?  Are they being welcomed every week the camp is open?

On 7/15/2019 at 1:52 PM, Eagledad said:

I kind of felt like this is more of how to run a linked program

On 7/15/2019 at 6:14 PM, SubSM said:

While this Wood Badge course is not outdoors, I believe it will help each of us lead our troops, including the special challenges of having two troops under one roof.

The linked-troop aspect is what makes this particular wood badge so interesting.  It will be interesting to see what model or models BSA is promoting for how linked troops should function.  What I saw at summer camp this summer, seeing the linked troops there, was that different troops were doing things very differently.  In one troop the boy scouts (middle schoolers or young high schoolers) I talked with thought that their troop had simply added a girls patrol -- these boy scouts had absolutely no idea that the girls had to be registered as a separate troop.   For another linked troop pair, the girls' troop and the boys' troop had different troop numbers, were in different campsites, arrived at different times, brought different adults with them, and functioned completely separately at camp.

On 7/15/2019 at 5:18 PM, NJCubScouter said:

An indoor Wood Badge course AT A HIGH ADVENTURE BASE is just nuts. 

On 7/15/2019 at 6:14 PM, SubSM said:

January in the mountains sounds like lots of fun outdoors, at least for me, but I am sure there are many who wouldn’t enjoy it near as much.

January is not prime camping time in my part of the country.  Rather convenient to do wood badge at a time of year when it will not cut into prime weekends to spend camping with the troop. 

On 7/12/2019 at 10:57 AM, mrkstvns said:

Does your council or camp do something to treat the girl troops differently than the boy troops?

Our council camp is being very welcoming to the girls.  Already had individual shower stalls with real doors that locked and a private dressing area inside the stall.

Only difference has been how provo campers are being handled.  So far the (very few) provo girls are being placed with girls troops who are at camp that week and who have offered to host them.   When our troop was at camp, the single provo girl stayed in the campsite with us and did everything with our troop.  This worked fine. 

12 hours ago, karunamom3 said:

because my mom told me

I am imagining this scenaro.  Kid, at home, before camp, in family room and eyeing the throw rug on the floor.  Asks  "Mom, can I take a rug to camp for my tent?"   Mom, eyeing same throw rug (her favorite) and imagining what it would look like after a week of camp says, "No.  Not allowed".

Kid jumps to conclusion and . . . .

Crocs are great for the showers,  maybe okay for the waterfront.   Not secure enough on the feet for general all-day wear around camp.    (Not the rule of any particular BSA camp,  but my opinion only.)

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

My wife retired as a school nurse (RN).  She had a student go into anaphylaxis due to a peanut allergy.  The kid knew he was allergic and he had epi-pens, but the mom just couldn't find the time to bring one to school.  Wife had to use another student's epi pen and was seriously in fear of losing her nursing license, because it was someone else's drug and there was no Dr order in place.  The ER doc told her she had saved his life.  Everyone sorta looked the other way, but if the kid had died, she would not have been able to continue in that job, both emotionally and legally.  

My 36 year old son has recently and suddenly become allergic to shellfish.  He was eating some shrimp when his throat started itching real bad and closing down.  He tested it again a few weeks later by taking a small bite...same reaction.  So, after a lifetime of loving shrimp, he is now unable to eat it.

Carrying an epi-pen in the first aid kit is risky if it is not prescribed and used for the individual prescribed.  It is illegal to give prescription drugs to someone else.  Just be aware of the risk you are taking.

There is also the problem of kids at school having an allergic reaction to something they did not know they were allergic to.  In recent years, because of situations such as the one descibed by @scoutldr  in which a kid has an allergic reaction at school but no epipen, effort has been made to allow schools to have "stock epinephrine"  available for use for kids who have an allergic reaction but do not have a prescribed epinephrine auto-injector (epipen or similar).  These sites, https://www.foodallergy.org/education-awareness/advocacy-resources/advocacy-priorities/school-access-to-epinephrine-map  and  https://www.aafa.org/epinephrine-stocking-in-schools/  , have information on  states allowing or requiring schools to have stock epipephrine.  

Unfortunately I do not know what other groups are permitted to carry stock epinephrine -- and this is likely to vary by state.  There is some information here: https://www.foodallergy.org/public-access-to-epinephrine

FARE's Food Allergy & Anaphylaxis Emergency Care Plan is very helpful in telling the uninformed what to do in case of an allergic reaction.  (How to recognize a reaction and whether to use the epinephrine.)  Worth a read, even if you don't currently have a kid in your troop with known allergies.   Of course it assumes that you have an epinephrine autoinjector at hand and can call an ambulance, and that you only need to deal with the first 20 minutes of the reaction without help. 

https://www.foodallergy.org/life-with-food-allergies/food-allergy-anaphylaxis-emergency-care-plan

https://www.foodallergy.org/media/329

Allergies might be scary for scouters.  Even scarier for the families -- will their kid be unable to advocate for himself?  will the surrounding companions be too hesitant to administer epinephrine promptly (less effective after a delay)? 

1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:

They also encouraged me to go ahead and go public with the announcement of the Troop formation.  I was hesitant to open up to the community until we had everything lined up and ready to go as to not appear half-assed.

In our area local advertising, even before our plans were as definite as yours, found more girls (and their parents) to add to the group forming a troop.  Don't feel like you have to have everything lined up before you start broadly recruiting.   You don't need to promise what you don't yet have, but you can certainly announce your hopes and intentions.

6 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

But I am afraid that some folks will want a continuation of GSUSA. Heck they have "Journeys" and we have "Adventures" because we are using the same sets of education experts.

I have never met anyone in GSUSA who enthused about the "Journeys".  Of course I have only met the average volunteers, not the people who write these materials.

Just now, Eagle94-A1 said:

As for cooking, that is a challenge. Burn bans are lousy. Crazy thing is, there is a type of fire designed for these conditions, it's just not LNT friendly.

Our girls troop just went for a joint camping trip with our linked boys troop.   (First joint trip,  the girls troop has had several camping trips on its own.)   This was a traditional annual event for the boys troop.   All the cooking was done with propane.   But the boys built a bonfire that had flames that must have been at least five feet high -- and burned much more wood than would have been needed to cook for the entire long weekend.   In our part of the country at least, camping in camps with established fire rings and ample downed wood,  we cannot blame LNT for the lack of campfire cooking.

28 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One of the things new Scouters with female troops, especially former GSUSA or duel enrolled GSUSA leaders, is that THE BSA AND GSUSA HAVE MAJOR DIFFERENCES IN HOW THEY OPERATE AND DO THINGS! (emphasis). My biggest fear is that female Scouts BSA troops will have adults with only GSUSA experience, and try to use that model when running a Scouts BSA troop. Recruiting is vital is you want to succeed

The major differences in how BSA and GSUSA operate and do things is one of the reasons that some currently and/or formerly associated with GSUSA have now enrolled with BSA.   If they were entirely happy with all the ways that GSUSA operates they would see no reason to join BSA.

That being said,  there are a couple of things from my GSUSA background that I would like to bring into the BSA troop I am affiliated with:

1) enthusiastic singing around the campfire

2) scouts developing real competence in campfire cooking

Neither are, I think, opposed to BSA ways,  simply out of fashion at the moment.

Our troop is just starting to think about this. The girls have looked at some prototypes, and need to decide style and colors.  It is really easy to take a square yard of fabric and put seam binding around it.  (e.g.  Wrights extra-wide double-fold bias tape ) Actually easier than simply hemming it.  Makes a sharp looking necker. And you get any color combo you they want.  Or cut the square yard into two triangles before binding the edges to make triangular neckers -- less functional but easier to roll tightly. 

Leather lacing 3mm wide can be made into a turks head woggle.  Some of our girls like a 4-lead turks head -- and this is decidely different looking from the wood badge woggle.

14 hours ago, karunamom3 said:

we only just learned what a gateway was last week

What is a gateway?   Maybe we should know before we go to camp?