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Posts posted by Treflienne

  1. Why not do the same projects you do with Boy Scouts or Cub Scouts the same age as the girls?  Probably all of them are suitable.

    The one additional thing I can think of that some girls might like that boys wouldn't do is a small purse.   So many girls' clothes have no pockets at all, or an almost useless pocket barely big enough for a kleenex.   Size the purse about the size of a pocket,  big enough to hold a phone or a wallet, interior size about 6" x 4".  Make sure it closes securely  (button or toggle?).  And give it a strap long enough to wear diagonally across the body.

    Of course, if girls' clothing had decent pockets then such a thing would be unecessary.   (Even the new BSA uniform pants for girls are somewhat skimpy on the pockets compared to the boys' uniform pants.  They do have two cargo pockets, but they are tiny cargo pockets.)

  2. 28 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

    not to steal his or her property.

    What do you think the camp does with the confiscated phones?

    Another Girl Scout camp,  same council, has the same phone policy but words it a little more gently


    No cell phones will be permitted at camp.  If a camper brings a cell phone to camp, we will safely store the phone and return it directly to the parent at the end of the session.


    28 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

    The remedy is to send the offender home,

    Which is more drastic?  Which is more trouble for the parents who are paying for a week at camp? Having the camper's phone spend a few days locked in the camp office?  Or requiring the parents to fetch a kid from camp, at short notice, and find alternative things for them to do the rest of that week?


  3. 40 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

    What is your authority in your state to seize a "device" because a kid broke YOUR rule

    I'll switch to a Girl Scout camp example.  The camp my daughter attended gave parents an information packet explaining the camp rules and policies.  (And if you did not like them, you did not need to attend that camp.)  The camp clearly told families that


    The following items are not allowed at camp and should be left at home: cell phones and other electronic devices, candy, gum, food, alcohol, illegal drugs, weapons, pets and animals.  If found at camp, they will be confiscated.



  4. 10 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

    Would I be correct to assume it has changed a lot?

    That is an extreme understatment.   

    Do you have "How Girls Can Help Their Country?"  or "Scouting for Girls?"

    In October 2017, my daughter picked up a boy scout hand book from a few years ago,  read it, and said "This is like what Girl Scouting used to be" -- and her point of reference for "what Girl Scouting used to be" was a late 20's handbook which was a slight revision of the original 1920  "Scouting for Girls".      In other words "Scouting for Girls was (in my daughter's opinion) more like the recent Boy Scout handbooks that it was like the recent "Girls Guide to Girl Scouting".

  5. 5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    But, the new Tiger program in the 1980s highlighted their greed. IMHO, the added burden of toddlers to an already full program teetered the scales negatively all they way to Venturing.

    What I saw with GSUSA was that starting the girls as "girl scouts" in kindergarten set the expectation that scouting would be a light & fluffy extra-curricular.  The littlest kids did not do much because they could not do much.   And by the time they got a little older, and could do more,  their opinion/expectation (and for the new-to-girl-scouts families, the parents' expectation) of "Girl Scouts" had already been set.  Not good.

  6. 3 hours ago, DuctTape said:

    This is why the handbooks aren't really used except as "sign-offs" BECAUSE THEY ARE OTHERWISE BASICALLY USELESS. 

    I assume you are using "BASICALLY USELESS" as a relative term?    Have you ever looked at the "Girls' Guide to Girl Scouting" which is the closest thing GSUSA currently has to a handbook?

  7. The leaders' guide, for the camp we will be attending, says


    Mobile Phones are NOT allowed in camp. The use of mobile phones by Scouts in camp is strictly prohibited.
    Adults that need to use them are requested to use them out of sight of the Scouts and down in the parking lot
    area. Mobile phones that are used by Scouts will be confiscated. Mobile phones detract from the outdoor
    experience of Scouting and can complicate issues of homesickness.

    I have been told, by those who have been to the camp previously, that the camp is strict about its phone policy.

    I am quite happy with that.

  8. I took a few scout staves (the standard scout-shop kind) on a camping trip and the scouts had fun with them:   used them to haul their gear,  used them as poles for their dining fly, actually carried them hiking . . .

    Now at least one of the scouts is saying that we should give a scout staff to every new scout joining the troop.

    Thing is,  those scout-shop staffs seems rather heavy.   Has anyone tried using bamboo poles for scout staves (including using for dining fly poles)?  They have the merit of being lightweight, inexpensive, and readily available: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MPXVSHO/

  9. 9 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

    As someone who was responsible for the Council Junior Leadership Development and NYLT (JLTC), the average 14 year old doesn’t have the maturity for the advanced course. Maybe the girls do, but not the boys.

    I agree that they would probably get more out of the course if they were older.   But my troop just elected a 13-year-old PL as the top youth leader in the one patrol troop (and she is, I think, the best choice they could have made) and she appointed a 13-year-old QM to help her who again I think was a good choice.   From my troop's point of view, I would rather they get the NYLT training this summer, instead of waiting until next year.   (And once 2020 rolls around they would have to be first class, and I am not encouraging a race to first class in a year.)     Why do we not have older scouts in top leadership positions?  Because the couple of 14-year-olds we have are terribly shy, and one is not fluent in English yet.  

    21 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

    Ideally, adult troop leaders observing the course would bring back more value to their troop. 

    Is this typically allowed?   Is this encouraged?   I would probably learn a lot if I could observe the course.


  10. Apparently there is a further change to age requirements as of 1 March. According to https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/resources/nylt/


    As of March 1, 2019, Scouts BSA members (male and female) must be at least 13. They must have completed Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops. For 2019 only, an exception will be granted for girls registered in Scouts BSA to attend NYLT without first achieving the First Class rank. Boys registered in Scouts BSA will still be required to earn the First Class rank before attending NYLT.

    This is very good news for my troop, as our top youth leaders are 13-year-olds.

  11. 1 hour ago, MattR said:

    Scout 1). How about starting with a duty roster?

    I agree.   It's not nearly so hard for her to say "Have you checked the duty roster?" as it is for her to say "Please do X".     If the other scouts are good-natured about helping when needed, but simply not paying attention to when they need to do something, the PL making and posting a duty roster that fairly distributes the jobs might help.

  12. 3 hours ago, Kudu said:

    What would be the pros and cons of joining a "Troop," if you are a Lone Patrol of kids encouraged by your parents to seek adventure on your own?

    Not quite the question you are asking -- but one benefit to a kid of seeking out a troop is to find that patrol of kids with common interests -- if he hasn't already found one on his own. 

    • Like 1
  13. 12 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

    I asked about having the patrols vote for their own leaders and the reaction of was mixed.  One parent in particular was not a fan (“we don’t want this to be a popularity contest and the boys never asked for this anyway”).

    Our new troop, after a short initial term of office for its first PL,  just held an election for the new PL to take over beginning of the summer.   Any scout who wanted to could put her name in as a candidate (no minimum rank requirments or any such thing).  Then the troop (a single patrol) voted on who they wanted.   I in no way tried to influence their choice of which scout was appropriate for the job.   (Though I did use a preceeding week's scoutmaster minute to emphasize the importance of servant leadership.)

    Interesting to me was that the scouts who put their names forward as candidates were all scouts that I felt would be good candidates.   And the scouts elected the girl that I personally thought was most ready to be Patrol Leader.

    This is just to say that if you let the scouts vote for their own leaders,  they may very well make an extremely sensible choice.

  14. 13 hours ago, qwazse said:

    Assemble PLC regularly

    • We actually opted for 10-15 minutes after the troop meeting closes.


    The troop leader guidebook (p 37) talks about the regular monthly PLC meeting.  Also about "Patrol Leaders' Council Huddles" before each meeting and a brief PLC meeting at the end of each troop meeting. 

    Our small new one-patrol troop has been holding an all-interested-troop-members-invited "PLC" meeting once a month for the scouts to plan the upcoming activities.  Typically about half the scouts in the troop (including the PL/APL) attend.   We have not been having the brief PLC meeting at the end of each troop meeting.   However I am starting to feel that something of the sort is needed -- that is, remote means of communication (email, phone) between troop meetings are not quite enough.  

    So,  in your experience, especially in your small-troop experience:   do you do these post-troop-meeting huddles?  Whose attendance is critical?  Whose attendance is optional? 

  15. 3 hours ago, malraux said:

    Woggles in general are fine, but the stiff 2 strand, 4 lobed leather woggle (item 2173) is restricted to wood badge participants only to be worn with the wb necker. It’s distinctive in appearance and a violation of the insignia guide. 

    So that is a 3-lead 4-bight turk's head in leather (with each strand doubled). https://www.scoutshop.org/wood-badge-woggle-neckerchief-slide-2173.html

    But would a different turk's head knot (say 4-lead 5-bight ) be okay for scouts?  in leather? in paracord?  only if it is a color that looks very different from brown leather?

  16. 54 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

    Is that a Wood Badge woggle?

    I've got a scout who would like to talk her troop-mates into making turks-head woggles (and custom square larger neckechiefs) once they have a chance to get around to the issue of neckerchiefs.   Are there some restrictions on what is allowed for scouts?   (Like no leather or brown-leather-look-paracord?)

  17. 1 hour ago, willray said:

    So... Who else wants to show off what their cross-over patrol(s) do for cooking, with no senior scouts or adult help, on their first campout, and first time cooking outdoors?

    After hearing what meals the girls had planned for our first overnight,  the other mom and I decided to ask if they would be willing to cook enough so that we adults could eat as their guests rather than us two cooking separately.  (If we had cooked for ourselves, we would not have put in as much effort and would not have eaten as well.)

    Of course, a couple of our girls already had a good bit of camp cooking experience, and a number had cooking-at-home experience.

  18. 1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

    Yep, my complaint about mixing genders is that it takes away the leverage to force boys to do what they don't naturally like to do. I guess it's the same with girls, but I don't have as much experience there.

    I'm glad that BSA is not mixing genders, because that would take away the leverage to force the girls to do what they don't naturally like to do.  I guess it's the same with boys, but I don't have as much experience there.

    Also,  sometimes girls will be hesitant about trying things, because they don't have the confidence that they are good at them (because indeed they are not good at them yet).  If there are no over-confident boys around to jump in and do it first, then the girls realize that they need to step up and try  -- which give them a chance to develop competence and the confidence that comes with competence.

    • Upvote 1
  19. On 5/8/2019 at 12:53 PM, The Latin Scot said:

    As an LDS pack, we move our boys up to Scouts BSA based on age (on their 11th birthday), not the school year.


    17 hours ago, Pale Horse said:

    With the Church no longer chartering packs will the LDS method of promoting to next rank upon birthday continue (or be allowed)? Or will all Scouts be required to follow the more traditional approach of promotion at end of school year?


    1 hour ago, Pale Horse said:

    so I guess my question is: Are other Chartered Orgs allowed to operate under that method or was that an exemption for LDS units and no longer allowable? 

    First off, the more traditional approach is by birthday -- though the age used to be 12, not 11.

    And the promoting-by-age is not an LDS-only exception.  The brand new Scouts BSA Handbook for Girls says, on the inside front cover


    To become a Scout, a youth must : Have completed the fifth grade and be at least 10 years old OR be at least 11 years old OR have earned the Arrow of Light Award and be at least 10 years old. . . .

    Our troop knows of one girl (not a cub scout) planning to join as soon as she turns 11.   Oddly enough, her mother was not aware of the age-instead-of-AOL grounds for joining scouts, even though the girl has two brothers who have gone through cub scouts.


  20. It's not quite pioneering, but might fit with a pioneering themed campout:  scouts make their dining fly using four scout staves,  a poly tarp borrowed from someone's garage, some spare tent stakes, and some rope.    Good practise on lashing and knots.  (Two scout staves are lashed together with sheer lashing to make the front pole,  similar for rear pole.)


    Also fitting with a pioneering theme: no propane.  Only cook over wood.

    • Like 1
  21. 1 hour ago, SSF said:

    I can't fathom how any unit could hold ten events, six of which must be outdoor events or camping trips, within a three months span. What unit is that active...???

    Not so hard:   3 camping overnights,   3 local day hikes,  and four other things:  (help with scout recruiting night?  do ILST?  help with the spring cleanup at the CO? one more? )  And while the girl reaching 1st class has to do all of them,  its not required to pick a day when the entire troop can go.   Get half or more of your patrol and two willing adults (different ones for different activities) and you are all set.   One overnight and two other Saturday mornings per month.

  22. It's not as though they did not know what the requirements were in advance.  They could have had a plan mapped out even before 1 Feb.

    Here on scouter forum, we've had discussions of highly motivated scouts making fast progress,  and discussions of questionable (biased-in-favor-of-girls) judging at camporees.   But how many of the new girls troops are simply more ordinary?   At three months in (1 May) my troop reached the point where 50% of the scouts had attained Scout rank.  None is a tenderfoot, yet.    

    • Upvote 1
  23. 9 hours ago, AltadenaCraig said:

    Tonight my small linked-troop of five registered scouts will be visited-upon by a GSUSA troop of TEN junior girl-scouts.

    We will want the report:  will they join en masse?

    What we have seen around here in GSUSA is a huge attrition somewhere around 4th/5th/6th grade.   The majority of the kids quit scouting, and only a small fraction fold into the local "older girl" troop for grades 6-12, after the troop they have been with since kindergarten disbands.   I don't know how much is because the current Cadette/Senior/Ambassador program is unappealing, and how much is that the girls become interested in other activities. So if you get even 4 or 5 of this troop joining Scouts BSA, that is a good yield.

    Make sure they know they have the option of staying together as a patrol within your Scouts BSA troop.  (The friend-group issue can be very important).

    • Like 1
  24. 5 minutes ago, PinkPajamas said:

    From my experience the problem is the younger girls are really restricted in what they can do outdoors, no over night camping or watercraft until brownie (wolf age) and no tent camping until they're Juniors (weblos)

    Not the rules I've seen!  Is it council specific?

    We took 2nd graders (platform)-tent camping.  And we did not require the mothers of the girls to come along.

    My daisy co-leader did not want to camp, so our daisies did not camp.  But I know of some who did backyard tent overnights for the daisies.


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