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Posts posted by Treflienne

  1. 47 minutes ago, David CO said:

    Nor is there anything preventing a girl-led boy scout troop from making the same choice. Imagine the frustration she would feel if she were to join a boy scout troop because she wants to go camping, and then the other girls voted against it. 


    There is a difference.  In BSA camping is required for rank advancement.  In GSUSA camping is completely optional - a girl could earn Gold Award never having camped a day in her life.

    I've been looking at some of the BSA training videos on my.scouting.org.   According to these videos,  the scoutmaster and troop committee are supposed to ensure that there is an outdoor program.   In GSUSA,  leaders are not exhorted to make sure that the troop has an outdoor program.  

    I would expect that a girl who did not like camping would, after looking at the BSA rank advancement requirements, decide that she did not belong in BSA4G.

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  2. 11 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

    There is likely little credence to the statements that CO and troops can elect to remain single gender.  No doubt that will change in short order.


    4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

     In fact, the only people I've encountered gung ho about girls in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are parents. Even the girls I've talked to are not that interested.

    I don't think that there would be enough interested girls for all the current troops to go coed, even if they wanted to.

    I know one girl who is gung-ho about joining BSA in 2019: my daughter. Problem is I know only one girl: my daughter.  Seems like it will need a minimum of 5-10 girls for a viable patrol or "linked" troop. None of her female schoolmates are interested.  The girls in her GSUSA troop (grades 6-12) don't seem very enthusiastic about camping.  About a month ago I talked with the scoutmasters of the three boy scout troops in our town -- to see if they were aware of any girls eager to join boy scouts, and to sound them out on their attitudes to girls in BSA.  While they were generally positive about girls in BSA,  they had not heard of any other interested girls.  So it seems to me that if we do find enough interested girls in our town, then they had better all join the same BSA4G troop, which means that at most one of the troops in town will have a linked girls troop, leaving the remaining troops strictly single-sex-boy.

    That would not be bad.  The boys (or families) wanting a boys-only enviroment would have it available, even while girls are able to start benefitting from the BSA program.

    Meanwhile I am trying to learn about the BSA (never been involved before) so that I will be available to volunteer in some capacity if needed.  The training videos on my.scouting.org have been helpful there, as has been reading y'all's discussions on various BSA related subjects.


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  3. 2 hours ago, blw2 said:

    but I don't really get the girl troop and boy troop thing.  To me it might seem better to have male patrols and female patrols...maybe.

    but realistically and logistically genderless is where it 'wants'  it needs to go....

    Because 11-14 girls and 11-14 boys naturally separate and don't want anything to do with each other.

    Even at church we have coed elementary school stuff,  coed high school stuff, and separate boys and girls groups for the 6th-8th grades.  

    Also, in a coed environment tasks can easily divide along gender roles, depriving the kids of a chance to learn valuable skills more commonly associated with the other gender.

    The linked-troop option seems very nice in reducing the overhead involved in getting a new troop off the ground, and in providing institutional know-how.  But I can see families of girls (like mine) as well as families of boys wanting to keeping kids' experience single-sex.

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  4. From my point of view as a parent of a girl, the ideal would be for my daughter to join a well-established, long-running, girls-only troop which has long experience using the BSA program.  Unfortunately such troops do not exist now, and will not exist in 2019, though they might possibly exist in ten years' time.

    For I do see benefits to a single-sex enviroment, for both the boys and the girls, especially for the middle school grades, and especially for kids who attend coed schools.  But a well-functioning coed group might be better than a poorly-functioning single-sex group.

    So that raises the question: how to implement the BSA4G program for girls, so that they have a better experience than they do now, and so that it does not mess things up for the boys?

    Is it better to start with a small, just-getting-off-the-ground girls-only troop, hoping to eventually build it up?  (As a prospective future volunteer, that seems daunting.) Or is it better to start with what is functionally a girls' patrol in an existing troop?  And if so, how do to it in such a way so that the current boy scouts and scoutmasters are happy with the situation?

    I would appreciate any comments you have on what plans are being discussed in your local areas, and whether you think they are good or bad plans, and why.

  5. On 2/28/2018 at 4:20 PM, Tampa Turtle said:

    Over heard several scouter-committee moms who are also GSUSA leaders say that they are planning to bring their daughters over (and some friends) next year to our Troop. (The exact words used were "I do not care what a few people say we are going to STORM this Troop." (Her emphasis, not mine) Also "If they say we need two female scout leaders we can do it on paper none of us have to go camping or anything."  Two said they were going to start the beginning of next school year and not wait until 2019 because what is the point.

    I was sorry to hear about Tampa Turtle's experience.  I would have expected better behaviour.  Even though GSUSA dropped "courteous" from the Girl Scout Law when it was revised in 1972.


  6. 4 hours ago, gblotter said:
    5 hours ago, DuctTape said:

    In the end it is up to the local unit to provide a robust program.

    Local units are the face of Scouting and the boots on the ground to make any program work. But local units can do only so much to rescue National from their own bumbling mistakes (then and now).

    Same issue in GSUSA.  

    There are some GSUSA folks who think that the GSUSA national organization has long made too many poor decisions about program materials and program direction.  Now that another choice (BSA) is becoming available, some of these folk may turn up in BSA as refugees of a sort.  I have no idea how many.

    My pet theory is that part of the problem for GSUSA is that GSUSA national headquarters is located in New York City. (Not a good spot for outdoors-loving people.)  At least BSA headquarters is in Texas, not in the middle of New York City.

  7. 10 minutes ago, gblotter said:

    Paying homage to a historical label like Girl Guides will likely help traditionalist swallow the pill a bit easier, but our Texas brainiacs don’t have a great track record in this area.

    Some of us history-minded GSUSA oldtimers who are thinking of switching to BSA might like "Girl Guides".  But I see two big problems with "Girls Guides" as a name for BSA4G:

    GSUSA would hate it, because they are the WAGGGS member in the USA, and BSA is not.

    And the girls themselves who don't know much scouting history, just like their older American sisters 100 years ago, will want to be called "scouts" and not something else.

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  8. I found Eagle1993's description of their local troop's plans for adding
    girls very interesting.  (a girl patrol in existing troop, or a girl
    troop meeting at same time/place as the boys.)

    Has anyone heard, in their towns, of anyone planning on starting up an
    actually separate troop for girls?  (I.e. at least meeting at a
    different time or in a different room than the boys, even if sharing
    some resources.) 

  9. I've been lurking for a little while, trying to learn a little about
    the differences between BSA and GSUSA culture, but I guess I'll jump
    in and speak up now.  I have a 6th grade daughter, who after hearing
    the BSA plans to admit girls in 2019, and after reading an old Boy
    Scout handbook, tells me she wants to become a Boy Scout as soon as
    the program is available to girls her age.  So we are thinking about
    crossing the Tiber.

    A couple of comments on the differences: BSA has camping and outdoor
    skills built into the rank advancement.  GSUSA does not: outdoor stuff
    is completely optional.  Combine that with "girl led" which often
    means "majority rule", then if the majority of girls in a troop don't
    want to camp, then the troop does not camp (and the majoriy of the
    girls in the troop are happy with that situation). But some of the
    minority of want-to-go-outside-and-get-muddy girls may find BSA
    attractive.  Other families seem to be perfectly happy with the GSUSA
    program as is.

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