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Posts posted by Treflienne

  1. We are digressing. The scouts will pick their own menus.  Back to my main question.  Opinionated opinions please:

    11 hours ago, Treflienne said:

    Cooking will be done outdoors over campfires.  The scouts will plan and cook their meals.  However, since they will not be sleeping in tents that they pitched themselves, this is not actually a campout.  Since this is not a campout, then the meal planning and preparation and cleanup do not count for rank advancement.  Is this interpretation correct? 


  2. 47 minutes ago, TMSM said:

    .Are you prepping, cookng and cleaning outside? The point of these requirements is to get used to doing these things in the outdoors so if you are cooking by dutch oven and hanging out in the cabin waiting for things to cook this should not count. If you are using the sink in the cabin to clean it should not count, prepping in the kitchen it should not count. 



    Cabins have no kitchen, no plumbing, no sink.   Water needs to be hauled from a spigot at a different location in the camp.  All cooking has to be done outdoors on a campfire or camp stove.  (Troop wants to do it on campfire.)

  3. To be clear, I am not asking if the trip counts as camping for the purposes of TF 1a/1b -- it does not.    I am not asking if the trip counts as camping for the purposes camping for SC 1a -- it does not.    My question is about specifically about the meal planning, cooking, and cleanup and TF 2a/b and SC 2e.    I listed the other requirments, because they seem to define what a campout is for the purposes of rank advancment.

  4. There is still snow on the ground here, and for our first overnight outing with new scouts we will be going to a local boy scout camp and staying in small cabins there.  Cooking will be done outdoors over campfires.  The scouts will plan and cook their meals.  However, since they will not be sleeping in tents that they pitched themselves, this is not actually a campout.  Since this is not a campout, then the meal planning and preparation and cleanup do not count for rank advancement.  Is this interpretation correct?




    1b.     Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch.

    2a.     On the campout, assist in preparing one of the meals. Tell why it is important for each patrol member to share in meal preparation and cleanup.

    2b.     While on a campout, demonstrate the appropriate method of safely cleaning items used to prepare, serve, and eat a meal.


    1a.      Since joining Scouts BSA, participate in five separate troop/patrol activities, at least three of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least two must include overnight camping. These activities do not include troop or patrol meetings. On campouts, spend the night in a tent that you pitch or other structure that you help erect, such as a lean-to, snow cave, or tepee.

    2e.      On one campout, plan and cook one hot breakfast or lunch, selecting foods from MyPlate or the current USDA nutritional model. Explain the importance of good nutrition. Demonstrate how to transport, store, and prepare the foods you selected.



  5. The new scouts BSA uniform pants for ladies have a fine fit -- but they are cotton blend.  Suitable for indoor use.

    The older style polyester microfiber pants are a very poor fit (on me at least).

    So,  for heading out into the outdoors,  I might be looking for a pair of BSA-olive-green quick-dry ladies-cut pants.  Any suggestions?    And don't suggest 5.11 -- they don't have quick-dry ladies-fit pants in olive green.

  6. 3 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

    Are all the methods equal?  Or are some more important than others??

    Just to remind folks, these are the eight methods:

    1. The Ideals
    2. The patrol method
    3. The outdoors
    4. Advancement
    5. Association with adults
    6. Personal growth
    7. Leadership development
    8. The uniform

    What are your thoughts?

    I would venture that for different kids, the methods differ in importance.

    Adult association?  For the outgoing kid who is already comfortable going up to unfamiliar adults and talking with them -- this method is not so important.  For the timid kid, the chance to interact with friendly encouraging adults is invaluable -- to prepare them for when they need to talk to the department head at the high school, or the college interviewer, or . . .

    The uniform?  For some kids, it is no big deal.  For the kid (and this may especially important for some girls) who is extremely self-conscious about clothing and worried about not fitting in,  having a uniform gives the confidence that she is indeed wearing the right thing and does not need to worry about clothes.

  7. Around here, the school district calendar lists the last-day-of-school-assuming-five-snow-days.  Parents are told by the schools not to make any summer vacation plans that start before that date.   If we have more than five snow days, many families pull their kids out and school and go off on scheduled vacations, or sent their kids to scheduled camps.   Attendence is low and not much work is done on any make-up days beyond the anticipated five. 

  8. On 2/18/2019 at 12:45 PM, Ranman328 said:

    Update:  Meeting was approximately three hours.  Seven scouts, none above 13, two were Webelos that did not earn AOL.  UC did not see any Patrol voting or Patrol decisions occur but he arrived about 15 minutes late to the meeting.  He did have an interesting that three Scouts did not even have their handbooks at the meeting.  No flags to be seen and did not conduct a closing ceremony.  Have a Scoutmaster and one Assistant Scoutmaster.  Conferences lasted about five minutes each.  They were only instructed how to "Whip and fuse a rope" but did not actually do it due to having fire or flame inside the building.  I advised him to monitor the Troop and give advice as he is a former Scoutmaster of 10 years himself.  My advice would be slow down and enjoy the program and absorb as much as you can because it is over before you know it.  I'm not sure what the rush is all about. 

    @Ranman328, it looks like you were right to be concerned about this new unit.

    If a kid has a requirement signed off, knowing that he has not actually completed it -- or if a kid has a requirement signed off by an adult who tells him he did it, but the kid later looks up what is required and realizes he has not actually done what was required -- this is discouraging and demoralizing.  It also casts doubt on whether others who have that badge/award have actually done the work.  I have seen this problem far too often in a different youth organization.

    The question is how to instill in the scouts a sense of pride in accomplishment, of pride in mastery of skills,  so that they will refuse to have something signed off until they have truly mastered the skill or otherwise completed the requirement. So that they will Be Prepared and will have skills they can use when they Do a Good Turn Daily.

    My daughter has quoted me a snippet from a mid-twentieth century fiction book about Girl Guides, in which advice is being given to Guides who are wanting to just squeak by their requirements:

    "All the same, it's poor satisfaction to go round labeled as a First Class Scout, and then, when an emergency comes along, find yourself shown up as a Tenderfoot.  We might know inside the Movement that a First Class Scout was just a Second Class chap who'd scraped through a dozen extra tests by the skin of his teeth, but outside people couldn't be expected to confine their expectations to the Book of Rules, could they?  If you wear a First Class badge they'll expect to find the First Class sort of Guide inside your uniform every time.  They'll look to you to take the lead when things go wrong, and if you aren't expert at the sort of things they connect with us Scouts and Guides -- woodcraft and First Aid and all the rest of it -- you'll see them raise their eyebrows and smile a bit, that's all." quoted from Cherries in Search of a Captain, by Catherine Christian.


  9. And the advantange of an all-girl troop using the BSA materials, (instead of materials from "another national scouting organization"),  is that since BSA has camping and outdoor skills built into the rank advancement progression, such a troop will attract girls who want to go outdoors and camp,  enabling those girls to find each other.  It avoids the all-too-common problem of

    18 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    My daughter and one other girl want to camp and do outdoor things but no one else in the Troop wants to do those activities.


  10. 16 minutes ago, shortridge said:

    Can you describe your approach and what worked best (and what didn’t)? We have five and are working on SM recruitment, but are pulling out all the stops to get more.

    It helps to live in a populous school district.

    A couple of girls were initially interested.   They recruited several more from their pool of friends.  

    All the boy scout troops and cub scout packs in the school district communicated with all their families that a new girls troop was forming, and inquired about interested sisters and/or friends.   This found several more girls.

    There were also info notices put into a local paper, and posters put up around town -- but this did not turn up much interest.

    Going forward,  the cub scout packs are planning to help advertise for us at their cub scout recruiting night.  (This will also show prospective girl cubs that there will be a scout troop for them when they get older.)

    Are any of the parents of the girls willing to be trained to be the SM? 

  11. On 2/3/2019 at 3:15 PM, 1tree said:

    While it doesn't go into the part you are looking for here I would encourage you to look through my presentations from UoS on starting a new troop. Perhaps cover some of the things you haven't considered.



    Thanks.   I have a couple of questions about your presentation.

    With a single-patrol troop why have both an SPL and a PL?   What are the distinct differences between the roles in that setting?   I  seem to recall other discussions here which came down opposed to having both in a single patrol troop.    This is a practical question for a newly organizing troop.

  12. 2 hours ago, qwazse said:

    It's perfectly within the intent of the Guide to Advancement to have a boy learn a skill one week and wait until he shows he can do it the next week before signing off.

    Would I be reasonable if I told a scout, who had just been studying a picture of a knot in the handbook,  that she needed to wait to have her knot-tying skill checked off?  (None have tried this yet.  Hope none do.)   That is, can I expect them to know it cold?

  13. 14 minutes ago, malraux said:

    As a whole, I'd be perhaps a bit more concerned if every scout earned tenderfoot in 1 month, and then second class the following month.

    Unless it is a group of very highly motivated 16-year-old Venturers who are working very hard to try to reach Eagle.   In such a situation, whether they are self-motivated could be assessed by talking to them.

  14. 1 hour ago, Ranman328 said:

    I received a beating for not being clear enough on a thread that was talking about a Scout being Suspended but because I didn't say "suspended" each time, my post wad taken out of context and I was treated like I kicked their dog or something.  No time did the moderators get involved.  Very sad.

    These is a saying "never attribute to malice what can adquately be explained by incompetence."   How about considering accepting that some people genuinely misunderstood you and were not trying to take your words out of context?   

    • Upvote 1

  15. 41 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

    but as these girls all registered the first day they probably had a plan to do this.

    Most of the scout rank requirments are "repeat from memory . . .", "explain . . .", "describe . . .", "demonstrate . . .",  "show . . .", "tell . . ."   All these things could have been memorized/learned/mastered prior to 1 February, and simply demonstrated that day.   The three requirements that take more time are #2 (attending one scout meeting) #6 (the YPT pamphlet exercises with a parent, and the cyber chip) and #7 (the scoutmaster conference).    These girls could have been planning and learning for over a year since October 2017!   They could have persuaded their parents and scoutmaster to go along with the extra effort needed by the adults to schedule in time on 1 February for the adults to listen to this all in a single day. (YPT pamphet and all the scoutmaster conferences.)  

    Remember, these girls have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting, to be able to join the B.S.A.     15 months can feel like a very long time when it is 10% of your lifetime.

    I certainly know of new female scouts who looked ahead last year at the rank requirments, and starting working on learning skills they would need to know to pass them.

    Not that my new troop is so organized at the troop @Ranman328 encountered.   As I pointed out to my scouts,  none of them will be able to earn scout rank until after they select a patrol name, emblem, yell, and flag.

    • Thanks 2
    • Upvote 1

  16. I have tried to set my unit's beascout pin to show an "Alternate Unit Description" by doing the following

    1) filling in the text box labelled "Alternate Unit Description" with the desired description, and

    2) under "Fields Displayed On Unit Pin", ticking the tickbox labelled "Alternate Unit Description"

    Yet my alternate unit description is not showing up, even though all my other changes to the pin are showing up.  (I have observed an overnight delay in any changes appearing on the beascout website.)

    Anyone know how to fix this?   Or even who to ask for help?  

    Why do I want to change the unit description?  Because the council added a prefix number to our troop number,  and I want the unit description, that prospective families see, not to display the confusing prefix number.

  17. On 2/9/2019 at 4:50 PM, shortridge said:

    I don’t, but there are some prior threads about the differences here.

    Thanks, but I saw those before posting my question.  They seemed to be about a different shirt:  poly/wool with no mention of rayon,  and dry-clean-only instead of machine washable.

  18. 12 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

    Especially when they are young and may only get a year out them before thy need to size up

    Over half our girls are teens and may already be full height.   Certainly some are taller than I am. 

  19. 2 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

    I've never met a scouting unit that requires the scouts to wear a Class A while on an outdoor activity, other than for

    We plan to encourage rather than require.   And peer pressure may help. 

    5 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

    that's often quite a lot to ask parents to have two uniforms for their kid, a short sleeve and a long sleeve

    Why both long-sleeve and short-sleeve?  You can wear the long-sleeve year round, rolling up sleeves if needed.   Besides it mean not needing to put icky sunscreen lotion all over your arms. 

    3 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

    long sleeve t-shirts that they can  wear under the short sleeve uniform

    I've seen the boys doing this.   It looks sloppy. 

    • Upvote 1

  20. 10 hours ago, qwazse said:

    Bless your heart for wanting to uniform in the out of doors!

    I want not just the scouters to wear uniforms out-of-doors, I want the scouts to wear them, too!   How else will the general public recognize that these girls are now Boy Scouts?   (A Class B t-shirt won't quite do it,  that might make them look like tag-alongs and sisters of scouts.)

    • Upvote 1

  21. There is a "Troop 1" in my district that still wears the town name instead of the council patch.   I suppose it helps to distinguish them from the multitude of other "Troop 1"'s in our district,  including in adjacent towns.

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