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Treflienne

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Posts posted by Treflienne


  1. See this infographic: https://scoutingwire.org/this-infographic-shows-the-right-way-to-refer-to-girls-who-will-join-scouts-bsa/
     

    A couple of the main points are never put the word "girl" directly in front of the word "scout"  and make sure that people cannot confuse your girls BSA troop with a GSUSA troop.   Also, for our town's recruiting night, we were careful about the wording so as not to imply that we are the only scouting organization in town.  (Since GSUSA is still around.)    As far as I know, there is no problem with continuing to put the word "boy" directly in front of the word "Scout" or "scout" -- though some people might be nit-picky about capitalization.

    We are using just our 2-digit troop number for the girls' troop (which differs from the number of the boys troop).   We are not sticking a G on the end.  We are also ignoring as much as possible the annoying digit in the thousands place that our council is assigning to all girls troops in our council.  (Have not yet gotten the beascout alternate unit description working,  council says that national is working on that.)


  2. 59 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

    We did a 20 mile hike a month ago, where it was 45 degrees at the start of the hike, and 86 at the finish.

    I am about to take my new scouts on their first cabin overnight.  In order to have a campfire, they are going to have to shovel out about a foot of snow that is covering the fire circle.


  3. I've been to a GSUSA event where the adults were required to bring their medical forms,  but in a sealed envelope.  The envelope was handed over to the event organizers and then handed back at the end of the weekend.  The organizers were trusting us that we actually had a medical form in that envelope -- which was only to be open if the need arose.    (Most of the attendees were GSUSA troop leaders who were quite familiar with the GSUSA medical forms.)

    • Thanks 1

  4. On 3/9/2019 at 7:41 PM, qwazse said:

    The new scout's comment about GS/USA's potential vs. actuality of outdoor program should be a cautionary tale for us all.

    Quote

    interviewer: "The Girl Scouts don't do that?"

    girl: "So the Girl Scouts can, it's definitely an option.  We just didn't end up doing that a ton with my troop."

    Tactfully put.   But when options of all kinds are open to a GSUSA troop, and the majority decision rules,  if the majority decision does not want to do archery (or some other outdoor activity) then that activity will not happen for that troop.  And, importantly, the majority of the troop will be quite happy about that.

    One thing I have seen with the BSA program is that it is attracting the girls who want to camp, and helping them find each other.   (And the girls who don't want to camp can look at the rank advancement requirements and decide that other youth-program options more suited to them.)

    I really think that there is space for both the GSUSA and the BSA programs to exist side by side,  with similar goals of developing character, citizenship, and leadership in youth,   but appealing to and thus serving different groups of girls.


  5. For GSUSA whether shooting sports are allowed varies by council

    The Girl Scouts of Central and Western Massachusetts permits it:

    http://www.gscwm.org/content/dam/girlscouts-gscwm/documents/2018/Volunteer Essentials 2018-2019.pdf

    Quote

    Caution: You must get written pre-approval from your council for girls ages 12 and older
    who will: o Use firearms for target shooting (see Sport Shooting Safety Activity Checkpoints)

    The Girl Scouts of Eastern Massachusetts does not permit it:

    https://www.gsema.org/content/dam/girlscouts-girlscoutseasternmass/documents/volunteer-essentials.pdf

    Quote

    In an exciting, learning-by-doing environment such as Girl Scouts, it is only natural that girls will sometimes want
    to participate in activities not covered in the Safety Activity Checkpoints. When activities involve unpredictable
    safety variables, they are not approved as Girl Scout program activities. These include but are not limited to:
    . . . .
    • Shooting Sports (GSEMA Specific)


     

    • Thanks 1

  6. 1 hour ago, karunamom3 said:

    We found other troops our sons really like. If we go, the fear is scouting in our town will implode (by us & council).

    How densly populated is your area?  Are some of these other boy troops reasonably close by, even if in another town?   If so,  the opportunity for boys in your town to participate in scouting does not go away, even if the troop chartered in your town folds.    So you do not need to feel you are letting scouting for boys down if you focus on the cub pack and/or girl troop and encourage the boys to join stronger existing troops.

    Actually, cooperation with those troops might help you with the girls troop.  For us, even though our girls troop is linked with one of the local boys troops,  the other local boys troops (to which we are not linked) are referring girls our direction,  offering to loan us equipment if needed,  and willing to give advice if asked. 

     


  7. 1 hour ago, SSF said:

    Would you accuse Baden Powell of being a misogynist for not allowing girls to join?

    Give credit where credit is due.  Baden-Powell talked his sister into setting up a parallel organization for girls.  Then for decades Baden-Powell's wife worked with said organization.   


  8. 4 hours ago, SSScout said:

    Quote the Scout Promise and Law  liberally.

    Better yet,  get the offending scout to quote it to you, and stop him at a relevant point which you then discuss with them.   (I use to do this with Brownie and Junior girl scouts.)  Worked well for many scouts.   Did not work so well for the Brownie who really did not want to be a Brownie and would have preferred do be doing almost anything else.


  9. What would you do if you saw this behavior in a Bear whose parent was not present?   Who would address the behavior?  The den leader?  

    Perhaps the mom is wanting to wear her CC hat and not her mom hat in this situation.   It was a different organization, but with Brownie girl scouts we moms/leaders learned to differentiate between wearing the Mom hat and wearing the Troop Leader hat.  And at Brownie events a different leader (not the problem Brownie's mom) would deal with any typical kid behavior issues. 

    Are you the den leader?  Maybe the mom is hoping you will say something to the Bear, and wondering why you are not doing so?  Perhaps you could discuss with the mom which one of you will address the behavior?

     

     


  10. We are digressing. The scouts will pick their own menus.  Back to my main question.  Opinionated opinions please:

    11 hours ago, Treflienne said:

    Cooking will be done outdoors over campfires.  The scouts will plan and cook their meals.  However, since they will not be sleeping in tents that they pitched themselves, this is not actually a campout.  Since this is not a campout, then the meal planning and preparation and cleanup do not count for rank advancement.  Is this interpretation correct? 

     


  11. 47 minutes ago, TMSM said:

    .Are you prepping, cookng and cleaning outside? The point of these requirements is to get used to doing these things in the outdoors so if you are cooking by dutch oven and hanging out in the cabin waiting for things to cook this should not count. If you are using the sink in the cabin to clean it should not count, prepping in the kitchen it should not count. 

     

     

    Cabins have no kitchen, no plumbing, no sink.   Water needs to be hauled from a spigot at a different location in the camp.  All cooking has to be done outdoors on a campfire or camp stove.  (Troop wants to do it on campfire.)


  12. To be clear, I am not asking if the trip counts as camping for the purposes of TF 1a/1b -- it does not.    I am not asking if the trip counts as camping for the purposes camping for SC 1a -- it does not.    My question is about specifically about the meal planning, cooking, and cleanup and TF 2a/b and SC 2e.    I listed the other requirments, because they seem to define what a campout is for the purposes of rank advancment.


  13. There is still snow on the ground here, and for our first overnight outing with new scouts we will be going to a local boy scout camp and staying in small cabins there.  Cooking will be done outdoors over campfires.  The scouts will plan and cook their meals.  However, since they will not be sleeping in tents that they pitched themselves, this is not actually a campout.  Since this is not a campout, then the meal planning and preparation and cleanup do not count for rank advancement.  Is this interpretation correct?

    Quote

     

    Tenderfoot

    1b.     Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch.

    2a.     On the campout, assist in preparing one of the meals. Tell why it is important for each patrol member to share in meal preparation and cleanup.

    2b.     While on a campout, demonstrate the appropriate method of safely cleaning items used to prepare, serve, and eat a meal.


    SECOND CLASS

    1a.      Since joining Scouts BSA, participate in five separate troop/patrol activities, at least three of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least two must include overnight camping. These activities do not include troop or patrol meetings. On campouts, spend the night in a tent that you pitch or other structure that you help erect, such as a lean-to, snow cave, or tepee.

    2e.      On one campout, plan and cook one hot breakfast or lunch, selecting foods from MyPlate or the current USDA nutritional model. Explain the importance of good nutrition. Demonstrate how to transport, store, and prepare the foods you selected.

     

     


  14. The new scouts BSA uniform pants for ladies have a fine fit -- but they are cotton blend.  Suitable for indoor use.

    The older style polyester microfiber pants are a very poor fit (on me at least).

    So,  for heading out into the outdoors,  I might be looking for a pair of BSA-olive-green quick-dry ladies-cut pants.  Any suggestions?    And don't suggest 5.11 -- they don't have quick-dry ladies-fit pants in olive green.


  15. 3 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

    Are all the methods equal?  Or are some more important than others??

    Just to remind folks, these are the eight methods:

    1. The Ideals
    2. The patrol method
    3. The outdoors
    4. Advancement
    5. Association with adults
    6. Personal growth
    7. Leadership development
    8. The uniform

    What are your thoughts?

    I would venture that for different kids, the methods differ in importance.

    Adult association?  For the outgoing kid who is already comfortable going up to unfamiliar adults and talking with them -- this method is not so important.  For the timid kid, the chance to interact with friendly encouraging adults is invaluable -- to prepare them for when they need to talk to the department head at the high school, or the college interviewer, or . . .

    The uniform?  For some kids, it is no big deal.  For the kid (and this may especially important for some girls) who is extremely self-conscious about clothing and worried about not fitting in,  having a uniform gives the confidence that she is indeed wearing the right thing and does not need to worry about clothes.


  16. Around here, the school district calendar lists the last-day-of-school-assuming-five-snow-days.  Parents are told by the schools not to make any summer vacation plans that start before that date.   If we have more than five snow days, many families pull their kids out and school and go off on scheduled vacations, or sent their kids to scheduled camps.   Attendence is low and not much work is done on any make-up days beyond the anticipated five. 


  17. On 2/18/2019 at 12:45 PM, Ranman328 said:

    Update:  Meeting was approximately three hours.  Seven scouts, none above 13, two were Webelos that did not earn AOL.  UC did not see any Patrol voting or Patrol decisions occur but he arrived about 15 minutes late to the meeting.  He did have an interesting that three Scouts did not even have their handbooks at the meeting.  No flags to be seen and did not conduct a closing ceremony.  Have a Scoutmaster and one Assistant Scoutmaster.  Conferences lasted about five minutes each.  They were only instructed how to "Whip and fuse a rope" but did not actually do it due to having fire or flame inside the building.  I advised him to monitor the Troop and give advice as he is a former Scoutmaster of 10 years himself.  My advice would be slow down and enjoy the program and absorb as much as you can because it is over before you know it.  I'm not sure what the rush is all about. 

    @Ranman328, it looks like you were right to be concerned about this new unit.

    If a kid has a requirement signed off, knowing that he has not actually completed it -- or if a kid has a requirement signed off by an adult who tells him he did it, but the kid later looks up what is required and realizes he has not actually done what was required -- this is discouraging and demoralizing.  It also casts doubt on whether others who have that badge/award have actually done the work.  I have seen this problem far too often in a different youth organization.

    The question is how to instill in the scouts a sense of pride in accomplishment, of pride in mastery of skills,  so that they will refuse to have something signed off until they have truly mastered the skill or otherwise completed the requirement. So that they will Be Prepared and will have skills they can use when they Do a Good Turn Daily.

    My daughter has quoted me a snippet from a mid-twentieth century fiction book about Girl Guides, in which advice is being given to Guides who are wanting to just squeak by their requirements:

    "All the same, it's poor satisfaction to go round labeled as a First Class Scout, and then, when an emergency comes along, find yourself shown up as a Tenderfoot.  We might know inside the Movement that a First Class Scout was just a Second Class chap who'd scraped through a dozen extra tests by the skin of his teeth, but outside people couldn't be expected to confine their expectations to the Book of Rules, could they?  If you wear a First Class badge they'll expect to find the First Class sort of Guide inside your uniform every time.  They'll look to you to take the lead when things go wrong, and if you aren't expert at the sort of things they connect with us Scouts and Guides -- woodcraft and First Aid and all the rest of it -- you'll see them raise their eyebrows and smile a bit, that's all." quoted from Cherries in Search of a Captain, by Catherine Christian.

     


  18. And the advantange of an all-girl troop using the BSA materials, (instead of materials from "another national scouting organization"),  is that since BSA has camping and outdoor skills built into the rank advancement progression, such a troop will attract girls who want to go outdoors and camp,  enabling those girls to find each other.  It avoids the all-too-common problem of

    18 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    My daughter and one other girl want to camp and do outdoor things but no one else in the Troop wants to do those activities.

     


  19. 16 minutes ago, shortridge said:

    Can you describe your approach and what worked best (and what didn’t)? We have five and are working on SM recruitment, but are pulling out all the stops to get more.

    It helps to live in a populous school district.

    A couple of girls were initially interested.   They recruited several more from their pool of friends.  

    All the boy scout troops and cub scout packs in the school district communicated with all their families that a new girls troop was forming, and inquired about interested sisters and/or friends.   This found several more girls.

    There were also info notices put into a local paper, and posters put up around town -- but this did not turn up much interest.

    Going forward,  the cub scout packs are planning to help advertise for us at their cub scout recruiting night.  (This will also show prospective girl cubs that there will be a scout troop for them when they get older.)

    Are any of the parents of the girls willing to be trained to be the SM? 


  20. On 2/3/2019 at 3:15 PM, 1tree said:

    While it doesn't go into the part you are looking for here I would encourage you to look through my presentations from UoS on starting a new troop. Perhaps cover some of the things you haven't considered.

    http://t243sachse.org/index.php/university-of-scouting/2019

     

    Thanks.   I have a couple of questions about your presentation.

    With a single-patrol troop why have both an SPL and a PL?   What are the distinct differences between the roles in that setting?   I  seem to recall other discussions here which came down opposed to having both in a single patrol troop.    This is a practical question for a newly organizing troop.


  21. 2 hours ago, qwazse said:

    It's perfectly within the intent of the Guide to Advancement to have a boy learn a skill one week and wait until he shows he can do it the next week before signing off.

    Would I be reasonable if I told a scout, who had just been studying a picture of a knot in the handbook,  that she needed to wait to have her knot-tying skill checked off?  (None have tried this yet.  Hope none do.)   That is, can I expect them to know it cold?

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