Jameson76

12 minutes ago, JasonG172 said:

I round ours up to 34$, lol I like whole numbers haha.  I really hope no more than $20, I don't want to see more than $10 but noone has asked me. 

Myself, 14 year old and now my new Lion, it would most certainly make me start considering what to do. I agree YES it is still much cheaper than other sporting activities in our area but we also have on going events (campouts, summer camps) that figure in to our "yearly" expenses which I promise would exceed those other programs. 

My pack camps almost every other month, the troop camps every month. Average cost of event for the Pack $12ea, for the troop $25ea 

 

Agree it could be a cause for concern.

Our troop charges $100 annually for dues (no fundraisers), then pay as you go for outings.  

9 regular outings that run about $15 each, 1 winter trip that runs about $50, 2 summers camps, each about $350.  If a Scout attended all events, it would be $935 annually.  Note that most of our leaders contribute the gas used for outings.  Meals for outings would be extra.  That being said the Scout would have 15 to 16 nights camping for weekends, 12 nights camping at Summer camps.  It is a good value. 

Admittedly if the National Fee goes up maybe $50, that would be a 5% increase if you attend everything, but a 50% increase in our annual dues.  It would still be a tough pill to swallow.

53 minutes ago, JasonG172 said:

Or how much right ? 

Current is $33.  Estimates for the new rate vary widely from $45 up to $100.  So maybe we start an over under pool

In speaking with a DE we mentioned maybe a $20 increase, and he sort of shrugged and said or maybe more.....

26 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

At summer camp last year, there was a troop of all boys with just 2 female adult leaders.  I have no problem with that, but saying 2 adult male leaders for a group with 1 or more girls is gender bias.  

Having different rules for men and women seems like something that will result in legal challenges.  

You are assuming the male leaders identify as male...one cannot assume in the this brave new world.  I do actually wonder how that would play out.  All female troop, one male leader identifying as male and one currently biological male that identifies as female; is this in compliance with YPT?

51 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

Would I really want to send a small group of teenage girls on a camping trip to be supervised by young men in their early twenties?  Sorry.  Not a good idea in my mind. 

That is an interesting sentiment.  Is the world really that dark?  A predator behind every tree?  If YPT guidelines are followed there should not be any issue.  With all the gender inclusiveness it should be "youth" and then "adults (over 21)"  End of story.

I wonder if he had worked at the local Auto Parts store if his employer would have been included in the story?  

Many Scouts and those that work at camps do not realize they are in fact held to a higher standard.  

2 minutes ago, TravelerJoe said:

Is this really surprising to people?  Maybe people need to re-read the philmont article in Outside from the late 90'/early 00's.

Forgot about that one, sort of read like a Grateful Dead experience.....

The possibilities are endless:

• Prettiest Fish caught
• Cutest fish caught
• Slimiest Fish caught
• Most fish dropped on the ground
• Falling in the lake award
• Dropping rod and reel in the lake award
• Most hooks in your clothes award
• Most worms/bait lost to fish 
• Furthest cast
• Shortest cast

Surprised it took this long for the issue to be acknowledged by the Wizards in Dallas and "shocked face" they made an exception.  His claims of gender bias is spot on and will not stand for much longer.

I found this quote, that was attributed to Jeannine Szatkowski, who writes the Scouter Mom blog fascinating "Girls may have issues they only feel comfortable talking about with women, so it’s important they have a leader to go to, she said".  Not saying it does not have validity, but Wow, can you say double standard?  2 women can lead a boys den, but 2 men cannot lead a girls den.  Can you imagine if the same quote was used for justifying having a male requirement for the boys (or actually I guess those that identify as boys)?  People's heads would spin

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

Yep.  It's never been about gays or girls or atheists.  It's a postmodern requirement to "deconstruct" everything that contributes to what they perceive as immoral power hierarchies.  The BSA, by kowtowing, has signed it's own death warrant.  They will drive traditionalists from the program and pin their hopes on people who would rather see it dismantled. 

Yep

I made this observation years ago, the groups that do not like the BSA will not be pleased until there is no BSA.  The organization is operating from the viewpoint that there will be compromise and we will move on with the program.  Many who advocate for "change" do not want the program to move on and continue, they want it gone.  The groups do not in fact have the same goal.

The basic concept is that an organization should never attempt to please everybody; it’s simply impossible. They should try to please your constituency, your fans, your close friends; they will win over the unbelievers.

8 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I wonder when the lawyers will realize that as the BSA is non-profit, member funded organization, the people that will be the most impacted by this are the countless 6-18 year old Scouts who participate in the program.  Penalizing today's kids isn't the answer either.

Insert lawyer joke here

19 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Why not just tell them that the boys will start as a group and it will be up to them if they want it to stay that way.

Explain that the boys choose their own patrols - so if they want to remain as a group, just choose to stay together as a patrol.  Explain that advancement is at their own pace and you'd be happy if the boys all helped each other and advanced at a similar pace.

Of course, we all know that once in the troop, friendships will change and interest levels will vary.  But, as parents of a den that's been together for years, they don't see that yet.  They are more worried that you're going to force the group to split up.  Explain that this isn't the case and that as a Scout led troop you'll do no such thing.

Funny part is we sort of do that.  When the Webelos cross over in the spring they have a new scout program April and May.  Then summer camps, when we start back to regular meetings in August they are rolled into the existing patrols.  For our troop we have found success in keeping a set number of patrols then add new Scouts to these as needed as they older Scouts age out.  That works for us and provides continuity and encourages the older and more experienced Scouts to actually work with the new Scouts.

They sort of wanted a guarantee of keeping them together, making sure they were lockstep.  One parent in particular want to know when their Scout would be at X rank and what our "plan" was for advancement.  Also wanted to know what specific requirements would be worked on at which outings so they could plan accordingly.  I got the deer in headlights look from them as we explained that outings were not for advancement, they were for fun and adventure.  IF a Scout needed to work on something, he certainly could, but that was up to him. 

She asked if we "allowed" a Scout to go for a few years and not advance a rank...we said yep.  We don't monitor.  You can lead a Scout to an outing, but you can't make him advance.

Not sure she appreciated the humor.  We explained there were many good units in the area.

Are any other units seeing the Web III syndrone as you have Webelos come visiting troops?  We had the some come visit, the parents wanted assurances that their den (patrol??) would be kept together and "allowed" to progress together.  They have been friends since whenever blah blah blah

We had a conversation that in our unit we roll the new Scouts into the patrols, this helps them become part of the troop and function within the troop.  As they work with the more experienced Scouts they will learn Scouting Skills, group dynamics, etc etc.  We explained that while they will work with their patrol, they will be on outings with the troop, so they can be with their current friends, they can hang their hammocks together, etc. 

Also I made the comment that many boys who are close friends in 5th grade may not be as inseparable by 7th or 8th grade and time in middle school.  Expanding their ability to interact outside their close friend group is a positive trait.  Not sure my input was believed.

When we discussed that Scouts move through the ranks at their own pace, and not as a group they wanted to know who monitors their advancement progress.  We explained that the troop has many resources to assist and we are there as needed, but each Scout moves at their pace and is responsible for their own progress.  They explained that another unit would keep their Webelos den together as a patrol and work with them to make sure they advance, up to and including Eagle Scout.  Our feedback was that our main emphasis was to have Scouts plan and attend the outings, to have fun, to have challenging rewarding activities, and to have personal growth.  Advancement comes as a result of these activities and does not drive the activities.  We noted that we have a good number of Eagle Scouts annually (maybe 35% of the ones in the district) because we have an environment that keeps older Scouts engaged and active.

This is not the first group of families to express this...was wondering if other units were seeing this.  "Can you mold your program to what I need?"

14 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

BSA is gearing up for the 2021 National Jamboree.  The theme will be "Face the Challenge".

 

Well...I guess they have retired "Scout Me In"??

You learn something daily, I thought their motto was ABC; Always Be Closing (cookie sales that is...)  

Just kidding, please, no GSUSA lawyers hunting me down

19 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

Do scouts even read BL any more?  The youth are the intended audience but I don't hear the scouts speak of it.  Ever.  My Venturer would never look at it, and she's a certified bookworm and outdoorsy type. 

 

When National raised the rates last time (by $12) our annual dues had always included BL for all Scouts.  Moving forward we kept the dues the same and let the Scouts choose Y or N for an additional $12 if they wanted BL.  Not sure if any of the Scouts take BL any longer

1 hour ago, HashTagScouts said:

I share some pessimism on whether we are headed to some great rebirth or massive membership increase.  Scouts Canada went through similar progressive reshape of their organization, and for many of the same reasons that many are citing today as to why the BSA "is on the right track".  The result? Membership of youth participants is on the decline yet again for Scouts Canada: 

2013-2014  88,453

2017-2018  58,881

 

 

But but...we've been told that Scouts Canada is the success story that Scouts BSA is following??  Was the entire story not revealed?

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

I should add

• BSA has a relationship with the NRA
• BSA teaches scouts to murder and butcher fish
• BSA promotes scout Sunday thereby disenfranchising their open/closeted atheist members

to my second list of bullets above.  The list is almost endless...

Also BSA may have issues with these activities

• Firebuilding - which contributes to global warming
• Citizenship in the Nation - which continues to support the capitalistic dogma the country was founded on
• Knife basics - which promotes use of (yikes) a knife
• Fingerprinting - Which supports the overreaching police state
• Swimming - which promotes class separation as not everyone has equal access to a pool
• Automotive Maintenance - which also promotes class separation as not everyone has equal access to a car

10 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

Does your council not have an executive board? 

Oh yeah.  But with a CEO SE that makes close to $500 grand and a Deputy SE, other various directors, multiple development directors. multiple field directors, it is pretty obvious who calls the shots.  Council President changes every 2 - 3 years, so the continuity lays with the pros.  

5 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

But, make no mistake - volunteers and senior paid staff largely make the big decisions in a council.  

 

But, make no mistake - volunteers and senior paid staff largely make the big decisions in a council.  

Fixed your last part

21 minutes ago, PACAN said:

@ParkMan and @carebear3895    If DEs have no influence at the council level why do we need them?

Popcorn sales...more popcorn sales.  That stuff isn't shilling itself. 

It takes a well trained professional to actually believe and convince others that the Chocolate Lovers Collection is worth $60 and a Large Bag of White Cheddar Cheese popcorn is a GREAT value @ $20.  Let's not forget the 18 pack of microwave popcorn for $20 (which is $1.11 per pack) while a Pop Secret package for a box of 30 can be had for $13.50 (which is $0.45 per pack).  The salesmanship lessons led by the dedicated DE are something to behold

5 minutes ago, PACAN said:

Unscientific poll....at what level of increase in the national fee do you believe members will decide to or need to quit?

The challenge may not be stay or quit, but get started.  For current Scouts, if it gets North of $50 many will reconsider.

For NEW members, especially Cubs, you need to sign up little youth PLUS yourself.  Fee is $50, to sign up you, your kid is $100, plus uniforms, books, possible pack dues; you could be looking at $250 - $300 to get involved

41 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Scout Me In was a swing and miss.  Clarify how scouting is unique, fun and important to youth development and market that.

 

Agree that Scout Me In was not great.  Seemed to be more focused on younger youth, not really resonating with the older youth.  Though honestly BSA seems hell bent on being a Cub Scout group, I guess they feel that is where the members may come from.  Not sure the "Family" focus will get what they want either.  

7 minutes ago, Momleader said:

Whoa I hope  you’re wrong. $67 increase is a big pill to swallow!   

Does anyone else think there will be a number by the promised 10/23 date or will they push it out again?

Well - as many do recharter in NOV and DEC, gonna have to have a fee at some point.  

Honestly the challenge is, or the question is, that at a National and Council level, NOT the unit level, have we lost our focus as an organization?

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.  The Vision is The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law.

At the UNIT level we do this with campouts, fun activities, community service, projects, letting Scouts run things etc etc.  From my experience, the vast majority of the units do a good job of this and continue to execute that mission and vision.  Focusing on outdoor activities and doing stuff that other youth based groups (and it is a crowded marketplace) are not doing.

The CHALLENGE is that at the National and Council level the focus seems to be less on actions and more on fund raising (can you say popcorn) and the social issues that BSA feels they need to focus on.  I am not saying that the societal issues are not important.  These would be child abuse, bullying, etc.  But should that be our our front focus?  These efforts should be PART of who we are, not the REASON that we are.

The question is, does the current PAID Executive leadership, and make no mistake they drive the ship, really fully understand the program and what works at the grass roots level?  IMHO I would say no.  

BSA has a unique offering that can truly benefit the youth we serve.  If we continue to focus on non core initiatives, then many of those youth will not even come through the door.

54 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Price I am hearing is $75+ per member. That does not include any insurance or council fees.

Nail....coffin