Buffalo Skipper

The reason I am interested in the Webs who crossed over is that their leader is a friend of mine, and we have been discussing the matter. Our pack has never presented service stars, leaving this to the parents. We wanted to ensure that we were being correct on this when we bought them. Likewise, we have in my son's den, several boys joined in August and they have been working hard to earn the Arrow of Light before crossover. They will crossover with exactly (almost to the day) 6 months as a Cub Scout. They will wear their AoL on their boy scout uniform, but should they be "denied" the

A few years ago, a local Girl Scout leader was taking her scouts' SSN from their applications. She used them in an elaborate tax fraud scheme, netting herself some $87,000. She is now in a federal minimum security facility. I think BSA was recording youth SSNs at that time. The next year I noticed it was dropped from the youth app. I always suspected that it was because of this incident, but that is purely speculation on my part. GSA has also dropped the youth SSNs from their apps.

OK, here's the rub, and back to the original post. There were two Webelos 2 dens in our pack, both of which began as Tiger Dens (though only 2 boys from each of these dens stayed with it until 5th grade). Both dens had exceptionally strong and experienced leaders. The first den determined that all their AOL requirements were completed and chose to cross over in September (49 months after joining). Five new boys joined this year and all went into the second den who whose leader was wanted to work with them all on earning the AOL (even though the original 5 had nearly completed their require

Fair enough. ~~~_/)~~~

Thanks Guy! Sounds like we have same thing in mind--FUN!!! I was looking for some more technical aspects. Do you have a sign up list? Do you follow up with these Cub Scouts and their parents? Do you do the "hard sell" and actually ask them to join (I have done this with adults at Cub Scout open house, with good success)? If you follow up, do you have the committee, SM/ASMs, or boys actually make the calls? We invited the Dens from out Charter partner packs (our charter has 2 packs and 1 troop) to our COH last Monday. We had photos of events from the past year, and I put togethe

OK, update time. We have commitments from 6 packs with a total of 12 dens which will be participating; we are expecting 60-80 Webelos (4th and 5th grade dens). But I am looking for some advice here, mainly as relates to the recruiting aspect of this. I don't want to turn this into what people perceive as a recruiting event (I would prefer to be more subtle than that). We have "commitments" from maybe 10 scouts who want to join the troop. We would like to recruit 5-8 or so more this year (2 new patrols). We want to pitch the troop at the lunch, but we don't want to make it a hard sell

Thanks for all the good info. What I was really asking here (and I clouded it with my own fluff) is what is BSA's policy on Service Stars. I believe it is complete and whole years. If this is true, then the most would be "4" and not "5" for crossing Webelos. Right? I am only an honorary member of the uniform police, (not a registred member with full benefits...) but my son is crossing over in 2 months, and I would like to see that all the boys in his den are recognized correctly.

Sorry, but I do disagree. I just checked out references on the national site. There are several references to Den Leaders (plural), but only where discussing multiple dens or a collection of leaders from multiple dens. On this den page, as an example, http://scouting.org/cubscouts/activities/den.aspx, the reference is to a singular Den Leader. And look in any of the handbooks (Tiger thru Webelos). In no place does it refer to a den's leaders; always it is a Den Leader (singular). And again what is the purpose/value/function of an Assistant Den leader, if multiple den leaders are intended t

Actually, you need to look a little deeper to see the exact age requirement. In order to earn the Arrow of Light, one must be 10 years and 6 months. If not having earned the AOL, one must be 11 to join. So really 10.5 is the youngest one may be to join a troop.

How do your different packs handle service stars for their Cub Scouts? In the past, we have always let the parents get them if they wish. Also, may I assume that a Cub who joins as a Tiger and continues through Webelos and crosses over keeps a 4 year pin? I say this because if he crosses in February/March, this is only 4 years and 6 months as a cub scout. Right?

Sarge, Depending upon when you divide your den, change your registration and graduate your scouts to Bears will have an impact on your time in position (no double dipping for time requirement for these cub scout awards). With that in mind, let's say that you cross over (graduate) to Bears on June 1 (and your position changes to DL). Leaving 7 months of being registered before your DL time begins. If you look at the Cub Scouter Progress Award form, you will see that there are multiple ranges for the "Dates of Service." After you complete your year as a Den Leader, you will presumably

"...we usually have all of our Den Leaders registered as Leaders and not assistants." I think this really defies the intent of what BSA has in mind for the cub scout program. Each den should have one den leader. Otherwise, why have and Assistant Den Leader position in BSA, if you can make them all Den Leaders. That is also why there is no such position as "Co-Den Leader." It is important to have a single leader of a den to whom the boys can look up and recognize as a leader. If no one is a clear leader, they loose the sense of the leadership organization, which carries through to Boy

Thank you, insanescouter, for your reply. I did look on your site but did not find that for which I was seeking. Prehaps I can be more specific about what I am trying to find (and why). I am looking for image files of the old position badges. We are painting and fixing up our scout hut over the holiday break, and one of the things I want to do is print out the old insignia emblems, frame them (8.5x11) and hang them on one wall. I want to subtly introduce the scouts to their meaning. There is plenty more that I want to put up, but I felt this would be a good start. At the same

I am looking for quality images of the old style insignia for all positions, APL-SPL and adults. Can anyone suggest a website for this? I am not looking for scans of old patches but image files of these designs. Any help will do. Thanks.

BW, I get the impression that you thought I meant for the COR or the UC should be brought in to fix the situation with the EBOR. Sorry if I was misleading in that way--that was certainly not my intention. I disagree with how the EBOR allegedly handled the situation, but that is only my opinion, but really not the point I was trying to make. I suggested bringing in the UC and the COR, because I felt that a unit which was exercising an obvious lack of checks and balances is a unit which is likely to have many significant problems. If something as basic as a POR is being overlooked by t

Not to point fingers, but the two biggest failures here are the Scoutmaster and the Scout. How can a SM sign of Life and then Eagle without a POR? Prehaps more importantly though, this is the scout's repsonsibility. Knowing that he was not filling the requirement for a POR, why would he have even asked for a SM conference? Obviously (to me) the scout must have been completely familiar with the requirements for Eagle, as he did jump through all the right hoops for his ESLP. I agree with Scoutldr on this one. BoR should say no and let if necessary, let it be apealed. There is no "ap

I agree with BW 100%! When the math works, dens should have 6-8 boys. This is truly the optimal size. I have repeatedly seen larger dens collapse upon themselves (leaving 2 or 3) even with a qualified, talented and excited leader. More than 10 is just too many. Divide that den! Just my opinion.

Lisa and John, Thanks for the encouraging words, but my real thanks are to you and all here who gave me the perspective and advice to resolve this (and other issues). I am glad I found the group. And I certainly intend to do the best for the boys. In fact, with much soul searching, I am stepping down from most (but not all) of my other scouting positions. Scoutmaster is a job which does not allow for one's time to be divided in so many ways so easily.

Thank you, Lisabob. I don't think I ever disagreed with what you said, and in fact, whether I explained it completely or not, I agree completely. "... Sometimes, though, it puts them in the uncomfortable position of having to laugh off comments..."This is exactly what is happening here. Joseph wants to fit in, but he has been pressured to "fit in," by going along with it. It is the error of us, as leaders, to have allowed this to continue. Now, this cannot be acceptable any more. In part punishing the boys harshly for this, when we have allowed it to happen,is our failing, as leaders. I

Sorry for the delayed response. I was just too busy yesterday to type that twice. Anyway, some things came out last night which put a slightly different spin on everything, so perhaps it was best I did not get that completely out yesterday. Regardless, the weekend went well, though there were some unexpected twists. For starters, SPL was a no show. He got into some trouble at school and was disrespectful at home on the matter, and his dad said Nix on the hike. SPLs dad was supposed to come on the hike, and still did. But Ill talk more about dad and SPL later. I had a chance

I made a long reply earlier which did not post. I am busy today and may not have the chance to repeat that essay. All is good, weekend went well. Details will follow.

Thank you John, and and all of you for your consistent, or is that persistent, advice. I do not believe this is coming out of the home, in either case. We have some rough middle schools here, and I believe this is a peer generated response (outside of scouts). That is also the consensus of the other troop leaders who know these scouts and their families. Finally, (and I have been reluctant to say this until now), I have an ulterior motive in not kicking these two scouts off this campout. If I remove these scouts, then I remove the SPLs father also. We can find alternate transport

Beavah, I hear you loud and clear. In fact, I have no intention in saying anything about their POR and the next hike. Any decision regarding that will be made by myself, the CC and CoR. I do intend to address the issue and advise them that they need to come up with a plan. I will not "advertise" how this may be implemented, so it is unlikely they will make a leap connecting this with their advancement. I will be very clear with them that any escalation of this will result in immediate action on my part. For Joseph's sake, I cannot allow this weekend's activity to take place without

OK, here is what has been decided so far. Tonight before the weekend activity, I will have a Scoutmaster conference with each of the offending scouts, separately, of course. I will advise them that a matter like this would normally be presented before the PLC for review (aside: All discipline is usually handled through our PLC and has been for many years; sometimes the PLC has decided that this is out of their hands and they defer the adult leadership, however). As all involved (offenders and victim) are members of, and make up nearly half the PLC, this is not a practical solution, and I w

There are times I am happy I am involved with a very old troop. That low number can be easier to deal with. Every good troop should be rewarded with a single digit.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)