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Everything posted by Eagle1993

  1. Has anyone gone to Summit for summer camp? Any thoughts on the experience?
  2. All of the below assumes state health department & our council allows us to camp. The discussion we are having as a Troop is what level of social distancing we are able and willing to enforce during a summer camp. At this point, we are unwilling to enforce social distancing smaller than a patrol. If there is a need to enforce social distancing smaller than patrols, then camp will not work. Patrol level is difficult but may be achievable, but probably not at 100%. We talked about clear visual indicators of who is in what patrol and ensuring scouts in different patrols stay 6+ feet apart at all times. Tent buddies from same patrol and keep patrol tents/setups apart. Even this will be difficult to fully enforce during a full week, but could be a way to limit reduce/limit possible contacts. Troop level is nearly guaranteed if you have your own summer camp. If going to a council camp it will depend on the scouts & camp counselors. Our camp is fully patrol cooking, so we think it is mostly achievable given the info we have been provided … but again, not 100%. In the end, we are discussing as scouters what we are willing to enforce. We will discuss with the PLC to see what they view as achievable while still maintaining the summer camp experience. We can then go to the parents to get their thoughts/concerns. For those looking to keep social distancing at the individual level, camp will not be an option this year. You will have to accept that at minimum your son/daughter will come into contact (<6 feet) with at least 6-9 other scouts. I think after that level, it is really dependent on the Troop/camp and their practices/plan.
  3. Camp Freeland Leslie just sent an update - June 21 is now their start - Patrol cooking only, they had planned a dining hall type experience this year as an option, that is cancelled. - Camp wide pig roast cancelled - Camp wide flag/fire ceremony cancelled - Family night/visitor day cancelled - Cloth facemasks will be provided to all campers - Personal bottle of hand sanitizer to all campers - Large bottles of hand santitizer across camp - Symptom screening setup - Shared equipment cleaning will follow CDC protocols - Disinfecting procedures for common areas to be followed. - Refund policy improving … allowing cancellations closer to camp.
  4. I agree, but I'm also thinking about the leadership in the state. New Mexico's Governor is very aggressive. She is setting up roadblock around Gallup https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gallup-new-mexico-lockdown-sunday-governor-lujan-grisham/. I would not be surprised if she shuts down Philmont. Florida, on the other hand, well ..
  5. I expect it will be a phased approach for most states. Groups of 10 or less would allow some patrol activities/camping. Groups of ~50 would allow Troop. I was much more bullish about summer camp one month ago. However, that assumed we would be a in a lot better shape now. One month ago, our state was predicted to see few new cases now and <<100 infections by June 1. Deaths were declining in mid April, but late April that switched and now daily deaths exceed our previous peak (same for USA). The latest models I see now show <<100 infections by August 1 … and that assumes we social distance all summer. https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america I think as a Troop I'll push for a mid August Troop lead summer camp if our current date falls through. Mixing scouts within a community is much less risky than mixing scouts from different regions. It won't be the full experience, but it may have to do this summer. I hope we will be able to do this as being locked inside all summer will be tough.
  6. I know that is the current plan, but I would be shocked if it went through this summer. While the curve has flattened (we are now linear growth), we haven't driving cases down. I have a team in China (not Wuhan) but when I discussed with them the USA's response their biggest shock is the travel we allow between locations. That is a big way they limited the spread. I think governors will realize this more and more and put a stop to locations that attract out of state visitors. It kills me as I think there is a risk that some of these high adventure bases may be sold off in Bankruptcy. I also know it provides cash flow for BSA and many would lose out on a once in a lifetime experience. I just think there is no way New Mexico or Minnesota will allow this to proceed. Florida … perhaps and I have no idea about West Virginia.
  7. I think you are going to need to figure this out until there is a vaccine or decide not to go camping. We are already talking as a Troop as to how to help reduce risk. Given that a vaccine may not be available for years, Troops that begin planning will do much better than those that either ignore the risk OR decide to stay inside until 2022+
  8. Good point. I'm guessing the traditional bug juice will not fly this summer. Individual water bottles/drinks.
  9. Per CDC: "...essential service providers, such as first responders, healthcare workers, transit workers, and other industries where a parent cannot stay home" So, basically, opening this up to kids of parents who cannot work at home.
  10. Looking at my council, United Way is the top revenue source … hopefully that doesn't drop. Outside of that, FOS (I expect will drop), investments (will drop), product sales (will drop), camping (frozen), activities (frozen), special events (frozen) … 75% of their revenue is either frozen or will see substantial declines due to COVID-19 and the economy. I don't know their cash on hand but their cash flow will go negative this year without substantial cuts. I hope they don't simply take the easy way out and sell a camp or two. While I pushed back on immediately looking at council mergers as strong councils may tie themselves to high risk ones, I think COVID-19 and the resulting economy is a perfect storm that could permanently injure BSA if councils don't aggressively act together. Hopefully the national BSA bankruptcy will provide the abuse protection and councils can evaluate mergers based upon ongoing operations vs risk.
  11. Not a fan of the virtual camps, though I appreciate the effort. Our summers are fairly short here and my kids will have had enough of virtual learning by June (over 3 months of school). I have no desire for them to be watching more videos during summer. If camps cannot occur, I'll punt on the virtual programing and have them play outside without the structure of video guidance. If camp is cancelled, I hope our Troop is allowed to put on our own. If not, I think we will simply recommend some local parks for families to travel to and restart virtual programming (if needed) in the fall.
  12. Looks like Sea Base is planning to be active in June. Given this, I expect many councils will continue to plan to hold summer camps, unless states prevent them. I was thinking there would be a lot of cancellations if HA bases close, but as they are remaining open, it will encourage councils to also find a way forward. In the end, it will really depend on the CDC and state health departments … they will have the final say.
  13. Philmont update … June Treks cancelled, but July is a go. https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/coronavirus/
  14. From info I could find. There was a FB post where people listed councils that cancelled camps. I tried to doublecheck their FB pages or websites and below are the ones I was able to confirm. I expect may more will be coming and I didn't list the many that have cancelled camps in June (hoping that July dates hold). Cancelled (BSA): Allegheny Highlands Council (New York) Blackhawk Area Council (Illinois) Minsi Trails Council (Pennsylvania) Nevada Area Council (Nevada) Sam Houston Council (Texas) Sequoia Council (California) Southeast Louisiana Council (Louisiana) Transatlantic Council (Europe)
  15. Our camp is pushing hard for more signups, even today. They have emphasized they absolutely plan on holding camp. Now the CDC and health departments will have a say, and I expect <50% chance it happens. My Troop has over 40 signed up for summer camp at this time. Over 400 are signed up for June dates (3 weeks) at the camp we attend. We had only 1 scout pulled … that could change. We had an ASM get Covid-19 about two weeks ago, but he wants camps to be active and plans to send his kids. We have several scout parents that are doctors and nurses … they are signing up as well. What is interesting, is that the parents who are closer to health care are actually raising less concerns than the parents without health care backgrounds. Now this could be based upon assumptions from the parents in health care of where we will be at in terms of the infection in late June vs non healthcare parents who are looking at the situation of where we are at now. Just a guess.
  16. I'm starting to see several summer camps cancelled. The below two were announced this week. Not sure if there were others …. Blackhawk Area Council (Northern Illinois) Sam Houston Area Council (Houston Texas)
  17. I feel for him as well. A lot of tough decisions to make. I think his current goal should be keeping this a Chapter 11 and preventing Chapter 7. Then rebuild ...
  18. It looks like the CDC & White House are working on guidance that includes summer camp recommendations. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cdc-draft-proposal-lays-out-phased-reopening-of-childcare-religious-institution-food-industry-amid-coronavirus "As for summer camps, the CDC draft recommends that camps be restricted to children of essential workers in phase one, with phase two welcoming children who live in the local area only. By phase three, the CDC recommends that camps restrict attendance to those from limited transmission areas." I don't see any way High Adventure camps open this year given this guidance and if you live in high transmission areas you are probably out of luck for all camps all summer. BSA summer camps would struggle to open depending on what is defined by "local area" and timing of phase two in each state. So far, GSUSA cancelled but my kids other camps are still open (Zoo, local universities, local museums, local ecology centers). GSUSA asked everyone to not ask for refunds and just use the fees for future years ..
  19. Our PLC is telling scouts to focus on the MBCs that require tracking (personal fitness, personal management) or are bookwork (Citizenships) right now. The idea is to get those out of the way so you can focus on the outdoor ones later. I thought that wasn't a bad idea.
  20. We received a couple emails from two councils who have camps in our state yesterday (seems like yesterday was the day to release updates). 1) Camps are still being planned; however, that can change. 2) Camps will implement additional changes (temperate checks of everyone at arrival, hand sanitizer provided to everyone + at various locations, etc.) 3) Three proposals are in discussion … summer camp schedule with no changes, summer camps to begin July 5 (June dates cancelled), alternate camping/advancement option if traditional summer camps are cancelled. 4) All councils who have camps in our state are meeting to have a common plan for summer camp this year. 5) CDC, state and county health departments are being consulted. Next update is May 4th.
  21. Our camp is 100% patrol cooking, there is no dining hall. Meals are cooked and eaten in Troop camp sites. Our biggest building simply has a roof over a slab of concrete (no walls). I agree early June in a building half filled seems risky.
  22. We are having similar discussions. Our plan A is stick with our June date … but I expect that will be cancelled. Plan B is to go to same camp in mid/late July. Plan C is different camp in mid/late July. Plan D is our own Troop summer camp in late July or August (we have 2 crews headed to Philmont in August). Plan F is an additional extended weekend in the Fall. Plan G is a week in Florida during winter break. Plan H is giving up until 2021 or later when a vaccine or good treatment becomes available. What gives me some confidence is that we have many scout parents who are doctors and nurses … all of them have shown support in us going to summer camp. Now if our state numbers start looking like NYC I'm sure that could change. I have a bad feeling that this may be the last summer of many of these summer camps. Between BSA bankruptcy, FOS failure, recession/depression, loss of summer camp income, falling rosters and failing units … I expect many camps will be sold after this summer. I hope I'm wrong.
  23. Our schools are shut down for the semester as well, but the DOE removed minimum hour requirements so most schools are ending on time using online learning. Our school had talked about going until end of June, but several parents in our Troop (including me) will pull our kids from school to attend summer camps if they are open.
  24. So far, not a single one of my kids camps have cancelled. GSUSA, BSA, Zoo, various museums, college nor a local ecology center. YMCA, JCC and other major overnight 3+ week camps are still going. Without these camps, many parents will not be able to work or they resort to less than ideal solutions where older family members are watching kids. I have seen countless examples of <15 year olds being watched by >70+ year olds … a very BAD combination which seems to be increasing daily. Having these kids go between camps for the summer may be safer than having them be around high risk people as businesses reopen and parents go back to work. You need to balance perfection (100% of people locked away until a vaccine) with how people will really respond. We are only 1 month in and lawsuits are starting in my state to undo the directives of the Governor and protests are mounting. Many businesses have threatening to reopening in my area in defiance to the Governor and several sheriff departments have stated they will not enforce the lockdown. I'm not a fan of this chaos, only pointing out there is backlash growing and to expect everyone to be locked down in July like they are today is completely unrealistic. BSA should follow CDC & state guidance. CDC and the state should be looking at infection rates and balancing the risks. I trust the CDC and state health departments will make better calls than 100s of individual camps. At this point, I expect June camps will be (and should be) cancelled, but sometime in July may be ok … but that is a guess. High Adventure will likely be cancelled for the season (too much potential to mix across country); however, BSA should be preparing as if they are "on" until CDC and state health departments respond. The camp we go to is adding guidance and changes for COVID-19. I think more is needed and will be provided. As a Troop, we already started to discuss additional steps such as adults in the patrol kitchens to inspect KP, adults helping to enforce hand washing. No personal KP (disposable only). Daily temperature checks. Etc. … I hate this as I generally think adults should be out of the patrol areas, but this year is different. Nothing will be 100%, but to be fair, I think being outside in the sun and fresh air is much safer than any trip to my local grocery store.
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