HashTagScouts

That they would be independent thinkers and learners is hardly socialism or communism.

I'd start by referring her to read the rank requirements, pointing out: 30 days (minimum) required to earn Tenderfoot due to the fitness requirement, 4 weeks (minimum) after earning Tenderfoot to earn Second Class (fitness requirement), 4 weeks (minimum) after earning Second Class to earn First Class (fitness requirement). I appreciate the kids enthusiasm, but it is a marathon and not a sprint. To each unit their own, but I wouldn't accept the youth doing videos for rank requirements. If the youth wanted to come to a troop meeting and ask the SPL if there is time for someone to test him on requirement X if time allows, that is at the SPL discretion.

The last unit I was with had purchased new tents the year before that YP change, and they were intended to be used for three youth - bad choice IMO (3 per tent?), I came in at the tail end of that decision and couldn't understand that logic- also thought they went with too high-brow of a tent model, and within a year two of them were missing poles/had broken poles/had tears in the rain fly. Prior unit did individual, Scout (parent) purchased, tenting and that worked out well. Troop had a few troop owned tents that mainly were used for the first campouts after crossover so the youth transitioning in had a little time to learn the ropes. For the kids who preferred hammocks, they used hammocks. Their tent, they were in charge of bringing it home, airing it out, and keeping it in good repair. Some kids would bring their family 6 man tent to a campout, but the other Scouts would make it known that this was not up to expectation pretty quickly (usually by making that Scout wait it out before helping them to set it up- watching an 11 year old try to set up a 6 man tent by themselves is a sight to behold). Some Scouts would start off with a $30 Walmart one-man tent, some went right for the REI models. My son had a Walmart one, but he saw me taking care of my tent, so with him hitting it with waterproof spray at the start of each year and checking seams that tent held up well for him over the years. That tent only weighed a little over 4 pounds, so wasn't bad for backpacking or regular weekend outings.

Also are not supposed to be tenting youth together that are more than two years apart in age. For mixed age patrols, that just requires a little extra vigilance on how the patrol decides on tentmates, which then means adults having to be hovering over their shoulders for something that years ago we just left them to it.

We had started off with intent to keep units separate, then when numbers fell and recruitment just wasn't bringing in new girls, for practical purposes we had to do everything jointly. The pilot just made sense- especially as we were told from our Field Service Director that National did not want councils to keep letting units re-charter with 3-4 youth year-over-year anymore- that it was survival for us. Too many girls in our pack have brothers, and to lose pairings each year would kill us, and eventually begin to make parents question why they are even registering their kids in our pack when they'll have to move to the town over in 3 years like their BFF's kids had to do.

The "Make Our Program Highly Relevant" presentation was the relevant one to watch (https://nam.scouting.org/presentations/). Angelique spoke in that video on the pilot and what they are reviewing and timing as "fall". The "Opening General Session" Roger Krone" mentioned October on decision specific to this pilot. Not sure where the December was coming from, but the February that Angelique mentions in the FB post is - to me anyway - odd If the pilot is killed for existing units (for forming new units, that would correlate to AoL crossover, which makes sense if continuing the pilot). I still say that with the 174 units that are in pilot, Scouting America is highly unlikely to do away with this option.

General discussion at National Annual Meeting on it. Videos of presentations found here: https://nam.scouting.org/presentations/ No decision on continuing the pilot will be announced until October.

Why? If your Council is anything like mine, these Council weekend camporees and events are adult planned and adult lead, not Scout planned or Scout lead. Taking a smaller, younger unit to one a year to spark them to suck up some knowledge might be good, but otherwise, I'd rather have them off learning by doing. Making mistakes is a part of learning in my book. It is long and complicated history to get all into Scout camps and long-term resident camp structures, but for me one has to first look at the program itself and how it morphed over time. The earliest days of Scouting were small and fairly widely distributed on units that were formed prior to 1910 and in that first decade 1910-1919. Mostly rural, and camping meant hiking across town to a patch of woods rather than trekking off to some 500 acre camp. BSA growth from 1920 to post-WWII was predominantly in urban areas, and that began the rush for councils to acquire property for these units to have spaces of their own to build out and structure for solely Scouting purposes. Not all of these properties were huge tracts, some were just several acres. Residence camp ("summer camp") for many was multiple weeks, and didn't involve brining in adults to lead- the Scouts/units themselves generally lead the program. Our legacy council was split to three districts, and camp, up until the early 50's, was two weeks per district. The SE was the camp director and in charge of logistics (how to get Scouts and food to camp), and there was one other adult that was "staff"- that was the program director and worked with the with units to carry out their planning of daily activities. The camp property the council had in those years had no dining hall, no showerhouse, etc. There were only three structures on the property when it was sold in the early 1950s and they acquired a new, larger property. Beginning in the 1970s, as membership had peaked and began to drop in many areas, "excess" properties began to be sold off or sometimes transferred to state/municipal entities. For New England as a whole, from about the mid 1990s to present, about two dozen properties have been sold or transferred (many in the later category will still allow some limited weekend usage by Scouting units). Some of those were several-hundred acre type properties, some were hold-over small properties (often with little to no developed structures or water/electricity supply) from decades past. From the mid 1970s to the mid 1990s, several dozen properties were dispatched, often as part of paying down debts to stave off inevitable council mergers. Our youth several years ago tried to get SPLs from other district units together to plan a fall camporee, as our troop stopped going for a few years because it was all adult lead. The District Chair and the District Activities Coordinator were all onboard, until suddenly after a few meetings they weren't. The weekend went off fully adult planned and lead. When we inquired why this had changed, the response was that the "at large" District members (these are adults that are not registered to units, and not in a District Key 3 position, but are still registered to BSA) felt that they were being "left with nothing to do". Our unit had nothing to do with Council/District, aside from Eagle Boards, for the next four years. We couldn't understand how adults that were supposedly sticking around in a front of "supporting Scouting" took over youth running an event, and that seemed appropriate to everyone in a position of authority. I certainly don't have all the answers, and I may be completely wrong on this (even just for simple basic "health and safety" concerns we have to face today), but I am fine with the organization being at the size of youth membership that it is today, if only we could go back to that simpler time when a Council was only a small cluster of towns and had one employee, and camping and program in general wasn't big production. If we could process paperwork with nothing more than typewriters and the USPS back then, technology today should certainly make it feasible to scale appropriately without over-the-top bloat.

I have never asked anyone from that Council, but I did talk with an old timer from NY several years ago and they came up in conversation. The longstanding rumor is that they told National many years ago- like, when they were still headquartered in NYC- that they would never agree to change any of the charter agreement language, so that what you stated would remain the case as it had been going back to 1912, that Council was in charge of hiring their own staff. Camp Seton is also believed to be legally owned by the Greenwich Council corporate entity, and Greenwich Council "threatens" National that they will never agree to transfer ownership of it if National tried to take away their charter. 250 acres in Greenwich CT is worth a pretty penny in todays real estate market I'm sure. This all as I say rumor, would be interested if it is accurate.

Greenwich Council covers only just Greenwich, CT. Sometimes it comes down to the donors.

Aquatics guide is now available digitally: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/Aquatics/pdf/Aquatics_34346.pdf?_gl=1*o4y99g*_gcl_au*MTQ1MzU5MzYwOC4xNzQ5NzM1MDgw*_ga*ODM0ODQ1MjkxLjE3NDk1ODQ2OTI.*_ga_20G0JHESG4*czE3NTI1MTMyNTAkbzMkZzEkdDE3NTI1MTMyNTckajUzJGwwJGgw&_ga=2.213894036.1402502429.1752513250-834845291.1749584692 All swimming and activity afloat must be supervised by mature and conscientious adults, age 21 or older, who • understand and knowingly accept responsibility for the well-being and safety of youth members in their care, • are experienced in the particular activity, • are confident in their ability to respond appropriately in an emergency, and • are trained and committed to the nine points of Scouting America’s Safety Afloat and/or the eight points of Safe Swim Defense. The Den Leader, Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, crew Advisor, or Skipper who accompanies the unit on an outing is responsible for the first and last bulleted points. However, Scouting America policies do not specify that the unit leader must be the one who satisfies all of the above criteria. Under appropriate circumstances, the unit leader may delegate responsibility to others. For example, a Scout troop at a water park with trained lifeguards on duty need not assign separate unit personnel to perform water rescue. A Venturing crew on a whitewater excursion may rely on a licensed outfitter to provide the necessary equipment and trained guides. As the above examples demonstrate, a unit can participate in fun and challenging aquatics activities even if unit leaders lack the knowledge and skill to conduct the activity themselves, provided leaders ensure that others, such as venue staff, provide the required components. On the other hand, a troop on its way to a jamboree need not forgo the use of a hotel pool just because the facility does not employ a professional lifeguard, provided unit leaders are properly prepared.

Don't disagree with you on when they could have messaged. Does seem to be desired to use NAM as the showcase the past few years- but that could be self-serving trying to get more people to attend ((BSA makes $ off the registration fees for NAM).

I think the roll out timing post NAM 2024 was a little late to see immediate impact - AOLs would have already crossed over at that point. Waiting to give measurement now that they have seen numbers for the pilot units that took on crossovers this spring, plus seeing what recruitment numbers look like for those units as they approach back-to-school recruitment events, you should see a better picture.

In the two years of fumbling it took us to get enough girls to start a girl troop, we lost five kids (two sibling pairs + 1 friend of of one of the families) from out of our own pack to a neighboring town because they had a functioning linked boy troop and girl troop. We managed to get our stuff together to charter a girl troop with minimum #s that next year, but by year's end one aged out and one of our female adults moved. We were down to four girls going into 2024 and knew one would age out over the summer, so the mixed gender pilot was the saving grace for 2025. Very doubtful that BSA is going to drop that, and would bet the farm that by 2026 it is just one of the membership options that any unit can use.

NAM 2024 they announced pilot for mixed gender troops. My former linked units merged to single mixed gender unit for 2025 re-charter. NAM 2025 briefly mentioned it- no immediate plans to fully incorporate it as a full-fledged program option yet, but as I understand it, the plan is to expand the pilot in additional councils in 2025. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/NAM/2025/0 - Opening General Session.pdf

beascout.org can display multiple units with the same number- we have a number of examples of this within our council. A single CO can also sponsor more than one troop of the same gender- again, we have examples of this in our council. Several years ago now, Lodges were asked to do a clean-up and synch to National by updating/adding unit OAIDs from National. With those IDs in place, Lodgemaster can synch some unit information to the National database. We never had any issue with Venturing crews that were 0###, 00##, or 000#, so i suspect there is actually two fields in the National database- the actual unit ID as assigned by National, and then whatever ID the local council is using to identify.

It does, indeed: 10. Following the Leave No Trace Seven Principles and the Outdoor Code, participate in at least three backpacking treks of at least three days each and at least 15 miles each, and using at least two different campsites on each trek. Carry everything you will need throughout the trek. @ScoutsMama I hope the Scout enjoys this weekend, but don't get bogged down of whether "it counts for anything". Many, many youth in the program don't even experience more than a single overnight backpacking these days, so take the experience as an "intro" to backpacking of sorts, and cherish it.

I have a vintage sash that was fairly grungy when it was given to me. I didn't want to get it pristine white, but I did want to take out some of the mildewy smell from it to be able to wear it without everyone knowing I was there the moment I walked into a room. Your sash is probably the gauze like material, with the merrowed border all around- I would avoid using a washing machine on it. I took an old travel mug that had a top that sealed on well, and filled it about half full with a solution that was three parts warm water and one part bleach with a small dash of Tide- rolled the sash up like an Ace bandage, put in the container, put the lid on and agitated it for a few minutes and then let it soak for about an hour. Pulled it out after and just ran it under cold water to rinse and then let it hang over the shower curtain rod to drip dry. It's fairly white now. I would suggest this method before resorting to anything more drastic.

Yes, I would agree that only having half your staff as lifeguard cert is a concern. In the specifics of this tragic event, under the BSA aquatics policy, having the aquatics director as the sole individual over the age of 21 then would place them as the "supervisor". But if that individual isn't in actual position as to truly observe the operations and movement of that motorboat, is it really actually supervision? Knowing Hidden Valley, the swimming and canoe/kayak/rowboat area is on one side of the lake and the motorboat launch is on the opposite side (that is at one of the lakes, they also have a waterfront on a different lake that was mainly for small boat sailing). Then there is Camp Bell (both together, Hidden Valley and Camp Bell make up Griswold SR), where the main waterfront is a good distance to the opposite end of the lake. ultimate question is how many staff 21+ do they have at each of the waterfronts? I'm sure that is the angle this attorney is going to use in arguments, if that aquatics director age 21+ was on the other side of the lake when this occurred, then to the family the camp is negligent that it would be unreasonable to assume they could observe and react to what is happening several hundred feet away.

Can't speak to all parts of the US, but there have been several examples of Councils in New England trying different things. Narragansett Council effectively transferred ownership of their properties to an "outside" group- Rhode Island Boy Scouts, which in turn leases the properties back to the Council. That also allows RIBS to explore opportunities that can use properties for non-Scouting programs. One example they do at one property: Camp Norse Co-Op Spirit of Adventure Council, Daniel Webster Council and Narragansett Council are partnered to run weekend "Base Camp" half-day and full-day programs at various properties, which are open for sign-up to both Scouts and non-Scouts. Knowing several folks who have worked these weekends, their feedback is attendance could be higher if it were allowed to have one adult bringing their child and say 2-3 of their friends, but to ensure they are compliant for youth protection each youth has to be accompanied individually by an adult.

Too few adults, and resulting drop in expectations resulting by BSA are not a good combo. Not that many years ago, it was a requirement that at least one adult leader on a Scouts BSA overnight outing had to be IOLS trained. That is no longer the case (why the requirement that there had to be someone BALOO trained for Cubs, and not any requirement in Scouts BSA, IDK). IOLS can be run poorly, but by and large in my experiences those who staffed the trainings I was involved in knew what we were doing (at least within a certain skillset- I was usually woods tools and knots myself), and were dedicated to make it as fun and informative as we could, while emphasizing the real objective was to demonstrate the Patrol Method. I'd love to see some reports from a national level on just how many units don't have someone who has been IOLS trained. If you have units rolling with adult leaders who don't truly get the program, it's a big ask to who may have been the only willing volunteer to be a Commissioner and expect that person is going to impart anything onto that adult. Most of the Commissioners, whether they be Council, District, or Unit that I have interacted with in the last decade+ have been retirement age, long since been active to a unit, and often have been pressed into it. The results often were mixed, especially in light of the later part.

I'm glad you'll welcome comments. Membership started steady decline after 1999. Gay youth were not openly admitted until after 2013. How do you explain those years? “Good riddance,” SmartyPants might say. But the straight kid’s smile is the same as the trans kid’s smile when he learns to swim. But the straight kid is not at camp. Momma said, “Sorry kiddo. We’re not doing that.” 1 - 9 = -8. Don’t erase boys. Apparently, your presumption is that gay youth are not "real boys". As a youth, my son was a Scout. My son is an Eagle Scout, Vigil Honor recipient, spent years on camp staff, spent years as NYLT staff, Lodge officer, served stints as Den Chief, Quartermaster, Scribe, ASPL, and SPL for his troop. My son is also bi-sexual. He never hid that, it was never an issue that he felt was a necessary topic within Scouting and felt the same for anyone who is straight/gay/bi. That is who he is, and he who he has always been. Period. I would say your "smiles at the waterfront", while holding a bigoted view of those youth when you are away from the waterfront is far more of a problem than someone like my son having been a part of the BSA.

We may make more of that than is needed, just because many of us were around before and after the change, and we're more trying to find our own way on how adjust. Each country has their own flavor on how they have set up their program, but the comparable program to what many of us have known as "Cub Scouts" and "Boy Scouts" are just "Cub Scouts" and "Scouts" to them. Scouts UK Scouts Canada Squirrel Scouts 4-5 years Beaver Scouts 5-7 years Beaver Scouts 6-7 years Cub Scouts 8-10 years Cub Scouts 8-10.5 years Scouts 11-14 years Scouts 10.5-14 years Venturer Scouts 15-17 years Explorers 15-17 years Rover Scouts 18-26 years Network members 18-25 years Scouts Mexico Scouts Brazil Cub Scouts 6-9 years Cub Scouts 6.5-10 years Scouts 10-13 years Scouts 11-14 years Walkers 14-17 years Senior Scouts 15-17 years Rovers 18-21 years Pioneers 18-21 years

We'll get t-shirts and hang out in the lobby

I was thinking they were just not putting Venturing/Sea Scouts and Exploring on the plot line, but that was where the difference in the final numbers were. Slide 16, if expected total membership = 1,500,000 for 2028. Slide 17 Cub Scouts and Scouts BSA = $1,380,858 for 2028. Then expecting Venturing/Sea Scouts and Exploring to grow from ~37,000 in 2024 to 119,142 in 2028 I guess? The math ain't mathing.