Pale Horse

On 8/13/2019 at 5:34 PM, Owls_are_cool said:

c) Committee Chair job is open and I can serve in that position. Though I would take the support role of the committee seriously and let the scoutmaster run the program. I will run into conflict with parents that want to run the program from the committee. Though Scoutmaster needs an assistant that can help him.

 

If you and your son want to stay in this Troop and make any difference, Option C is the only way to go. Grab that CC seat and boot the troublesome parents to the curb.

BSA has partnered with a Marketing Firm (I forget their name) who has created a campaign on this very topic.

The major theme is "Scouts Start". Whereas in just about every sport there are the few starters, there is no "Bench" in the BSA; every Scout is a Starter. 

Also, where most "Try Out" for sports, in BSA you "Try In".

I thought it sounded a bit hockey at first, but it's actually very well done. 

5 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

It's not that I doubt you, but is that really true? 

If they're selling Trails-End popcorn, then No, it is not.  Someone either misheard the message or was given incorrect information.

Trails-End has developed an app that will significantly help Popcorn Kernels in their work. However it is completely optional. You can use the whole thing, parts of it, or none of it at all.  If you choose to use it to take credit card orders, Trails-End and Council are covering all transaction costs.  However you are free to not use it and use Square to process CC orders, either absorbing the cost or passing it on to the customer.

What's most sad is we're here debating what level of supervision Scouts need, there's a post on one of the Facebook groups where people are adamant that leaders must sit in the same section of an airplane to properly comply with YPT.

It's a sad state when people think they need to be within 3 feet of their Scouts at all times.

22 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

If there's a plan in place to balance the books it should be available to anyone to see, keeping it secret and trying to put a positive spin on negative news just makes the truth harder when it's confronted.

There is a plan and it's open. Your COR is a member of those proceedings and invited to every meeting. The problem is most CORs have no interest in attending, so when decisions are made unit leaders cry "Why wasn't I told or asked?"

On 8/4/2019 at 12:09 PM, David CO said:

This was predictable.  One only needs to look at the Summit to see where all the money is going.  A hundred local scout camps will be sold off to help pay for it.

Not sure where you're getting that. Absolutely zero funds from the sale of council camps goes to national, much less to Summit in particular.

The funds raised from these sales goes back into the capital improvement fund to help pay for the much needed repairs and upgrades to core council camps.  

Although it's sad to see camps go away, there's absolutely no need for 27, 16, 12 or even 8 camps in-council when we're hovering around 30% occupancy in our camps.  

19 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

This is a purely hypothetical question for me because so far our Pack has no female dens and no one has stepped up in our CO to start a female Scouts BSA troop, but does anyone know if there are rules regarding Den Chiefs having to be the same gender as the den?

There are no such rules.  Unfortunately, I can't point you to anything expressly stating they are allowed either.  Needless to say, having a female Den Chief would trigger the requirement to have a female register leader present.

Were they rescued or were they evacuated? To me, they're different things, invoking differing reactions and thoughts.

I do realize "rescue" was the news paper's choice of words in their headline.

Requirements have been updated to match the changes that went through in Fall 2017.

18 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

Well, Mr. Horse, if it's profit margin you seek, your troop might want to look into selling Krispy Kreme donuts (45% margin to troop) or Country Meats meat sticks (again, 45% to the troop).  

The disadvantage to these, from the council perspective, is that all the profit is retained by the troop, whereas, overpriced lame popcorn nets the council a cut of the take. Never mind that, while the margin might be good, the volume is HORRIBLE because everybody knows the popcorn isn't a very good product, it's obscenely overpriced, and it's complicated to sell with too many products at too many price points. Girl Scouts might only be seeing a 15-20% margin, but when girls routinely sell $1K+ of product that net sure is a bigger pile of $$$ than the Boy Scouts with their 35% from scouts routinely selling ZERO.

Nope, net is important to me for both Unit and Council. Unless something can compete with the ~75% combined to council and unit, we'll stick w/ popcorn.

We have no problem with volume. Pick any neighborhood and door-to-door sales will gross at least $125/hr. (sometimes as much as $300/hr.). All it takes is Scouts actually getting out there and asking, instead of sitting at a cookie booth where the cookies sell themselves.  

Trails-End has done studies and the #1 reason why people don't buy popcorn is because nobody has ever asked them to. Show up on someone's doorstep in a neat uniform and ask politely: "Hi, I'm X, would you like to help fund my Scouting adventures by buying some popcorn?" 8 out of 10 times you're walking away with a sale averaging $20-$30.

3 minutes ago, Terasec said:

understand the overall land

its still 350 ppl/day being funneled in/out through single place

don't like being herded like cattle out to pasture

 

500+ coworkers enter and exit my building everyday, yet I seldom walk in with another person.  Like you, I absolutely despise crowds and refuse to go most places that have them. 

In this instance, I think you're overestimating the crowded-factor.  I've never been to Philmont, but based on responses of other posters and those that have been there, I don't get the impression it's crowded. Certainly not as bad as the pictures of check-in and lines at World Jambo.  Now that is something that really turned me off.

11 minutes ago, Terasec said:

reading that actually discourages me from pursuing Philmont,

350 arriving and departing daily? am not a fan of crowds,

At about 220 sq. miles, I would hardly call a population density of 1.5 people/sq. mile a "crowd".

33 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Which in my mind is the challenge we face.  Our society today does't believe in taking risk.  If there is any risk associated with an activity that is beyond an "act of god" and the leaders did not take steps to avoid the risk, then the leader and BSA is liable.  The BSA could perhaps have an impact on that, but only in so far as it has any influence on public opinion.  It's not the BSA who is making these choices, but instead it's the framework of our legal system.  You want to fix this, it's in the purview of our elected officials.  

Living in fear of litigation and the "what if" is no way TO live life. I choose to run a good program, with exciting opportunities. I'll continue to do my best to mitigate risks, but they won't stop me from doing things. 

Whatever comes, will come.

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

One big challenge you may face is getting agreement on what bullying is.  Too often resolving situations like these is hard because of differing perspectives and opinions.  I'd work to build consensus and understanding.  If you can't do that, all the rules and procedures won't help.  

Agree. Personally I find people too quick to label rude behavior as "bullying".  Bullying has been such a hot button issue lately, that it's turned a lot of people on ear to hear about it.  We spend so much time raising awareness and teaching kids how to respond to bullying that now they call everything bullying.

Let me be clear, neither bullying or other rude behavior (e.g. teasing) have a place in Scouting. But it needs to be said that Teasing and Bullying are 2 separate things. Where BSA considers bullying to be a YPT issue, teasing is not. Approaches to respond and resolve the two may vary.  I'd recommend googling the difference and determining which category the behavior in question falls into.

As someone mentioned above, SPL usually picks his ASPLs. I'd be surprised he picked someone he didn't like and would feel the need to bully.  However, they are kids; if they're anything like mine, one day he's best friends with X, the next day he never wants to see him again.

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

The model here of course is Girl Scout cookies.  $5 a box isn't too expensive and speaking from experience as a GSUSA parent, many people buy multiple boxes.  The challenge of course is that cookies seem to be a unique product.  No-one really needs 4 boxes of popcorn or jerky - but they are happy to buy 4 or more boxes of cookies. 

As someone who buys GS cookies in bulk for personal consumption, I completely understand buying multiple boxes. Far less frequently do I see see customers purchase multiple bags of popcorn, however, I wouldn't call it rare.  We're blessed to live in an area with a lot of support for Scouts. We live in a community that has the highest ratio of Scouts per capita in the nation. We have 2 troops within 5 miles that have  120+ Scouts and another with around 75 (not to mention a few others with around 30 Scouts). We also have at lease 5 Cub Scout Packs in my town, all averaging around 35 Scouts.

From what I hear from my GS friends, the unit's return on cookies isn't nearly as good as it is for popcorn. Somewhere in the 15-20% range goes to the troop, as opposed to popcorn where 35% stays with the unit (and ~35% to council). I do envy the cookies ability to sell themselves, but the profit margin is terrible.

There's always been a lot of discussion about offering lower cost items. Marketing and sales people have looked into it; it's a losing proposition though.

In our council, we offer two $10 options., which is perfect.  If people want to support Scouts, they will. We market it as making a $10 donation and you get a free bag of popcorn. Not a $10 bag of popcorn.  If $10 is too much, many people just drop $5 in the bucket, even just a few dollars nets us the same as selling a $10 bag. We're just as happy with that.

My son has routinely been among the highest sellers in his council (last year he sold $6k+). Most of his sales are door-to-door, from pulling a wagon behind him, I've found that most people either fall into 2 categories: 1. those that want to get this kid off my porch without looking like a miser,  and 2. Those that realize $10 is an absurd price for a bag of popcorn but will still pay to help fund that Scout's adventure.  Even at $10, he gets very few people that  will flat out say "no".

If you lower your lowest item to $5 all you do is cannibalize your $10 sales; if there's a cheaper option, people will choose it. Then you have to sell twice as much volume to make the same amount of profit. Imagine the number of people you'd have to hit to sell the equivalent if your were selling $1 meat sticks. 

For us, we'll stick with popcorn. It's our one fundraiser a year, we meet our budget, give council their share, and move on. Parents hate fundraising. Do it once, hit it hard, make your target and forget about it until next year. I never understood the appeal of doing multiple fundraisers a year (popcorn, can drive, meat sticks, camp cards...). Talk about overload.

5 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Schools or any other building can catch fire with or without a criminal involved.

In which case the door stops won't be in use. 

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

Interesting.  They are presumably on the inside of the door.  If the classroom has suddenly filled with smoke from a fire and the teacher has become temporarily incapacitated, one wonders whether a panicky child trying to open the door, when its mostly dark due to the smoke, is going to immediately realize why the door won't open.

I would imagine these door stops aren't in use unless an active shooter situation is ongoing.  I'm (thankfully) yet to hear of the school shooter who also attempts to torch the school down.

Besides, rooms don't tent to just suddenly fill with smoke.

Council runs an invite-only event at the end of the popcorn campaign for those that sold $1200; usually an advance screening of a new movie or tickets to an indoor waterpark. I see no reason why a pack shouldn't be able to do the same.

3 hours ago, DuctTape said:

While class a, etc... are just words, they matter. When we begin to use historically military terms, we start the crack which may widen to allow the ideas and practices to change as well. 

If we're looking for military terms, we shouldn't forget there's a whole military occupation called Cav. Scouts.  We should find a new name.  We should also get rid of patrols, since that's a military term too.  

2 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

I try to evenly distribute the weight in my pack to some degree, makes the trail miles much easier.  Though you likely want slightly more weight in the top.  Keep water low and not too much stuff randomly strapped on bouncing about.

I may have missed the intent of this discussion.....

Generally, something along these guidelines.

Not necessarily. Without Den Leaders driving their families to attend, you'd be surprised how quickly attendance drops off.  The biggest marker for us having good attendance, at any event, was if the Den Leader was going, and if they were pushing it to their families.

I've found that having engaging Den Leaders that communicate well with parents and put on a fun program is the best way to recruit and retain Scouts. Since my best leaders right now are Bears and W1, we're heavy in those ranks.

Cub Summer camp will always be heavier toward the older ranks. Less parents of Tigers/Lions are able to take off work to meet the 1:1 requirement. Still as Wolves and Bears, even though they're allowed to attend w/o parents, few parents trust their child to attend an overnight campout without them.

Webelos are starting to make the transition to Scouts, so you should (hopefully) be seeing more of them camping and breaking away from mom & dad.

35 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Actually,  agree with the don't try this.   If you do this as part of the BSA as some have mentioned you would be leaving kids without Two Deep Leadership, a core part of Scouting's Barriers to Abuse.  

 

Two-Deep is required at the activity. It doesn't mean 2 adult Scouters must be within arm's-reach at all times.  I would see nothing wrong with dropping qualified and competent Scouts at a location a few km away from home base. Of course I'd ensure they were prepared, and had communication devices.  Don't really see much difference between this and sending Scouts off to MB classes at summer camp while Scouters stay back at camp.

Or if we must be overly protective, who's to say the Scouters couldn't just follow along, not interacting or helping.

If council denied it, who would you appeal to? National?  Doubt that's an issue they'd get involved in.

If you want real advice on what to do, post actual details of your situation.