Pale Horse

13 hours ago, elitts said:

Let me re-write that for you more accurately.

Our Pack of 38 Cubs will sell $65k in popcorn solicit $65,000 in donations. My son is on pace to sell $8k in popcorn collect $8,000 in donations, and will barely crack top 10 in our council of 60,000 scouts.  Do people reach those levels selling meat sticks?

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The core of the problem people have with popcorn is that calling it a "product sale" is so disingenuous it's practically lying.  The popcorn is SO overpriced that it's no longer a product sale, it's merely a conversation opening for scouts to solicit a donation. 

In fact, if a troop approached most councils with a different yet equivalently priced product, it wouldn't meet the requirements for an appropriate fundraiser. 

You're right, it's a donation to support Scouting. We're fine with that; we know it, and our customers know it.  Nobody is "lying", if they want cheap popcorn, they know it can be bought inside the supermarket we're selling in front of.  Yet for some reason, his Pack still sells thousands of dollars outside supermarkets.

My son isn't trying to run a business. We're out funding our adventure in the most efficient manner possible, so we can get back to doing Scout stuff.  

Depends on weather & planned activities to a big extent. I would suggest a minimum of 1 gallon of water per participant per day.

4 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

We should have a contest:

Pale Horse can have a group of kids standing outside a shopping center selling $20 bags of popcorn and I'll have a group of kids right next to 'em selling $1 meat sticks. Whoever makes the most money gets to buy the nicest tents for their troop.

As I mentioned in my post, people gravitate towards the cheapest option.  By standing right next to the kids selling popcorn, the meat sticks will of course sell more.

Our Pack of 38 Cubs will sell $65k in popcorn. My son is on pace to sell $8k in popcorn, and will barely crack top 10 in our council of 60,000 scouts.  Do people reach those levels selling meat sticks?

I'm a shill for Popcorn. Even with the slightly better commission (before Council gets a cut), my son would have to work 5 times as hard to raise the same amount of money selling meat at $1 (even if people bought 5 at a time) versus what he does selling popcorn.

Our problem isn't customers saying "No" to popcorn,  it's catching people when they're home. Those that aren't home or don't answer the door aren't going to buy.  But with meat, the ones that are home are now just going to buy a couple bucks in meat sticks, meaning my son has to visit 5 times as many homes to reach his average sale total of $20. The number of people saying "Yes" isn't going to explode enough to offset the loss in gross revenue.

Those who are willing and able to support Scouts at $10-20/bag more than makes up for those that are only able to support at $1-$2.  Currently, those people who only have a couple bucks but still want to support typically end up offering this as a donation.  By converting that to meat sales, you've effectively lost 58% of the bottom line donation.

This theory has been proven to be true. Numerous people have even gone so far as to entirely eliminate the $10 popcorn options from their lineup and sell only those $20+.  Their sales have increased substantially.  Even though people know popcorn is overpriced, they still want to help support. The problem is they still gravitate toward the cheapest option. By making the cheapest option $20, that's what they take. Make it $10 or $5, or in this case $1 for meat; that is what they choose.

I'm in favor of a statute of limitations to bring suit. What happened to those kids is a terrible shame; but after a certain point in time, what sense does it make to punish those that had nothing to do with it?

After 30 years, are any of those responsible for the actions or knowledge of the concealment still around?  You're asking today's families to pay for the transgressions that happened before many of my Scouts' parents were even born. We're 2 generations after-the-fact in some circumstances.

5 minutes ago, PACAN said:

 If DEs have no influence at the council level why do we need them?

Who else is going to coordinate for FoS to come solicit for money?

If National registration was the "all-in" cost of Scouting, I could easily sell an increase to $75/year. But it's not. To most people all that fee gets you is your name in a database.  Registration fees don't cover the cost of one badge or pin, much less a camping event.

Anyone that has done an actual cost study on the true cost of Cub Scouting, knows that it already takes close to $200 to put a kid through a year of Scouting.  That's just to run a bare-bones program for Cubs (no trips, no campouts, etc.).  That's $600 in popcorn sales before we even begin paying for outings and adventure.

Outside the cost of trips and camping,  it's actually more expensive to run a Cub program than it is a Scouts BSA program. New neckerchief and handbook every year; the cost of 2 or so pins/beltloops each month and the cost (time or money) in planning fun pack meetings.  The most complaints I get from parents are when their older kid crosses over to Scouts BSA and they start to wonder why they're paying more for Cubs than they are the older Scout. 

To top it all off, I'm still not sure why I need to pay national insurance fees on top of my own council's insurance fees. They say each council is a separate and unique entity, so why do I have to pay the insurance costs and abuse payouts for incidents that didn't happen in my council.

31 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Mentioned in news release, BSA Registration Assistance Fund. I found this form. 

https://247scouting.com/web/BSA160/attachment/document_14370746730_1259.pdf

 

 

It's great that this is available, but it does nothing to help the vast majority of Scouts coming from middle class. These families are not considered "low-income", but certainly don't have a spare $1,000/year to throw at BSA; and the families that do, have higher things on their priority list.  

5 hours ago, Double Eagle said:

Seems you are loyal to D-A as much as I am Silver Trails.     

Not at all. I prefer Cole Canoe Base.  Only reason we go to D-Bar-A is because Cub families refuse to travel more than 90 minutes.

1 hour ago, Double Eagle said:

 Centrally located in Michigan's thumb, it would be a couple hours drive to another camp.  

I'm not sure how old you are, but D-Bar-A has been around since 1950 and is just 45 miles down the road.  

Silver Trails had some fine programming, but utilization just wasn't there to keep it open. We're hoping most, if not all, of that can be relocated to relocated to D-Bar-A.

7 minutes ago, Double Eagle said:

I know of many adult leaders that drink heavy (not at events), cuss like a sailor/trucker, and do many "unscoutlike" behaviors.  They are still welcome in their units.  Heck, even parents that get speeding tickets to scouting events (yes it happens) don't get removed.  If we have faith in the system of due process, then let it work. 

Thanks for your thoughts.  However there's a huge difference between "victimless crimes" like drinking and swearing in one's own home and mutilating an innocent child.

See my previous post. There is no disputing that the FGM occurred, but it's technically not a crime.  I have a hard time getting past that.   Legal or not, it's Child Abuse.

4 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

You say he wasn't charged because of technicalities in the system. What were those technicalities? If he truly was guilty, why wasn't he charged in the face of the evidence that leads you to be so utterly sure it happened? You seem to have no doubt of his guilt, yet the courts chose not to convince him, and these are crimes not easily ignored, especially in today's judicial climate.

 

FGM was illegal because of a Federal Ban on the practice. A federal judge struck down the ban citing Federal Government's lack of jurisdiction in the matter; determining it to be a State issue. That's the sum of it.  I bet you didn't know only 35 States have bans on FGM. I didn't realize that mine is one of those that doesn't.  That means however despicable the act is, it technically isn't illegal, so charges were dropped.

Whether the procedure was done or not isn't in question (it was). Just the dispute on whether it was acceptable.  This isn't a person that's repentant for past actions, but one that's convinced what was done was perfectly acceptable. 

16 minutes ago, qwazse said:

And I think permissive sexual ethics are a form of abuse. Hasn't changed my ability to welcome such "abusers" while promoting a restrictive sexual ethic.

What if, it turns out, the spouse is no damn good? And this accused parent was stuck in a cultural vise? They both will stay "stuck" if you all can't bring them into your community and watch each other's kids race a wood block car down a track.

Sorry, I'm not following you with "permissive sexual ethics", please clarify.

What this boils down to is, the Dr. abused young children (sexually or otherwise).  You would welcome this person?

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

I assume the situation is that some parents took their daughters to him and he performed the mutilation.  I would ask my COR to prevent him from being leader.   Outside of that I would let his child join the pack.   If he wants to attend events with his child (and is legally allowed to) I wouldn’t stop him.  While I don’t agree with his actions I would not want to punish the child and I don’t see him as a threat to children of parents who would not bring them to him. 

Thanks for your view. Personally, I view FGM as a form of abuse. Just because it's under the guise of a "religious practice" doesn't lesson the impact.  Many of my leaders share this opinion.

We're open to allowing child to join the pack, of course. But were considering to ask that only the Spouse attend.  Curious if you think it'd be ok to allow a parent who's a "former" sexual predator to attend.

6 hours ago, Chadamus said:

@Pale Horse remind us again please - what is your role in your unit?

CM

Looking for advice and opinions, I'm sure I'll get a shortage of neither.

We had our Pack JSN recently, which a New Parent and Youth attended. The parent is a Doctor who was arrested and charged with performing illegal medical procedures on young girls. Think genital mutilation.  Most of the charges have been dropped, not because the Dr. didn't do what he/she was accused of, but because of federal jurisdiction and legalese...

Needless to say, our current leaders and parents are uneasy with the Dr.'s presence, especially the parents of girls.

What are my options here, and what would you all do?

Yes, I'm in process of contacting my USE/DE and Unit Commissioner.

32 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

The odorproof bags are, unfortunately, not odorproof to bears.  The Opsacks have a poor reputation for durability, too.

Nothing is "odorproof" but they do reduce the amount of odor significantly.  They're also designed to be semi-disposable. I've been using them in my ursack and get a season's worth of use out of them.

21 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

An in-between option, still not cheap is an Ursack.  They aren't approved in all national parks, though.  They're a lot lighter.  For weekend backpacking trips, they're probably a better option unless the area requires a hard sided canister.

https://www.ursack.com/

I like the Ursack, much more packable. That, and in Northern Michigan, while we do have black bears, we're much more likely to lose our food to raccoons and squirrels. 

I'd also recommend their opsack for sealing the odors.

https://www.ursack.com/product/opsak-odor-barrier-bag-2-pack/

18 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Update Friday Aug 23, 2019: 

After a century, I. Goldberg Army & Navy closed Friday. Back in the 60's, my Dad bought my camping gear there.  

https://www.inquirer.com/business/i-goldberg-closes-for-good-army-navy-taps-20190823.html

https://www.inquirer.com/business/i-goldberg-army-navy-philadelphia-business-closing-20190820.html

Back in the day, civilians used to buy Military surplus because it was typically the best stuff available for the outdoors (and often cheapest).

Nowadays, those in the Military buy civilian gear because it's usually much better than that issued to them (though never the cheapest).

Obviously there are exceptions, especially when we started getting issued cold- and wet-weather gear made by Patagonia.

We complain that training centers are underutilized and "we'll never be able to pay the balloon payment on Summit" Then we complain when we make accommodations to lure more people to utilize those facilities.

This has zero impact on Treks.

5 hours ago, Treflienne said:

Number of youth members on the most recent charter renewal (A) divided by the number of youth registered at the end of the prior
charter year (B) minus any age-outs (C). Total = (A) / (B-C). Age-outs are youth who are too old to reregister as Scouts. If the troop has a
December charter, use the one expiring on December 31, 2018; otherwise use the one expiring during 2019.

Obviously for new units, you simply replace the words "at the end of the prior charter year" with "on the initial charter."

You therefore have:

Number of youth members on the most recent charter renewal (A) divided by the number of youth registered on the initial charter (B) minus any age-outs (C). Total = (A) / (B-C)...

7 hours ago, David CO said:

I think it was a big mistake for scouting to replace the name of the community (on the uniform) with the council patch.  

 

I agree, so our pack chose to rebel a bit to build community spirit. We bough custom unit patches like this (that's not our Pack/location though). The kids like them, and parents love them since their easier to sew than 3 separate numbers & veteran bar (and including the Established year instead of the veteran bar means they don't expire every 5 years). 

58 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Professionals won't touch unit problems with a 10 foot pole unless A) Youth Protection, and B ) Money is involved.

Pessimistic question: which will get their response quicker?

29 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

"professional life" ... I was differentiating with trades.  Trades can provide good income to raise a family.  But, trades still mostly require a two year degree (or more) that directly targets the skills to be used. 

Fair enough regarding the "professional" (white collar?) vs. trades professions.  However, plenty of trades (most?) don't require a degree; the apprenticeship path is still the way to go.  For those that do, a 2 year certificate/degree from a vocational school is still a fraction of the cost of even the lowest in-state University.

22 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Maybe, but if you want to advance and move up the ladder, you eventually need a BS/BA, and sometimes a MS/MA. Best example is nursing. You can be a LPN with a years worth of training. But your scope of practice is limited compared to a RN with a 2 year associates degree. But to move up to supervisory positions, a BSN is required. 

I'd disagree on 2 points. The first is that nursing isn't a trade profession. Besides, I think it's all in our best interest that health care providers have a bit of formal schooling and education.

Secondly, most vocational trade professions have absolutely zero degree requirements. You can go from apprentice to master craftsmen with zero formal education. This doesn't even take into account the entrepreneurial opportunities that abound for those so inclined.  

12 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I firmly agree, but it's now the starting point for a professional life.  Very hard to have a long term stable career without a college degree. 

Except for the thousands of in-demand trade skills positions that pay premium wages without needing to go into debt for six figures.