BSAChaplain

It is so wonderful to hear these stories about Scouters getting fit. KEEP IT UP and KEEP IT OFF! Earlier, I wrote that I had put on 5 with my last week away, well getting back on it, has paid off and it came off pretty quickly. That puts me back over 50 lost. What really helped was that the day after I got back from the trip, someone I had not seen for a while came up and said "You're just wasting away, keep it up." Boy that reminded me how shortsighted I can be both forward and backward. I was thinking about the scale that morning, not the one in January. Those encouraging words sure do make a difference, don't they.

Welcome fellow Arrowman and Eagle. We are glad to have you and look forward to your participation. We may use the buddy system, but remember there are no lifeguards on duty.

One more comment on your inital posting. You wrote, "My son (a recent crossover from Webelos) still wants to get his Eagle, but its in spite of last nite's presentation, certainly not as a result of it." I can still remember sitting at the Eagle Court of Honor of Gerard Leiga in 1977. I was a newly crossed over Scout. I clearly remember thinking, what could a boy do that would have this many adults come and talk about him. A letter from the President, representatives from our congressmen, the Scoutmaster, previous Scoutmasters, all of these people telling us how amazing this was and how special it was that he had made it to Eagle. I remember nothing of the content except that they waid that less than 4% of the boys who become Scouts, make it to Eagle, and yet 100% of the Scouts have the ability to make it. I resolved then and there not to be one of the 96%. I knew that I wanted to live a life that was worthy of the kind of honor Gerard got that night. Plenty of people droned on and on that night, but I caught the vision. A month or so ago, our OA chapter held a Court of Honor. It was really cool. Families came and many award were given. At the end of the event they called all of the Vigils up, described the honor that it represented. Then called the new Vigil candidates up for recognition. I could feel my son, a Tenderfoot at that point, watching me as I stood up there. When we got in the car to go home he said, "I've figured it out. Next year I can be First Class and I'll have all of the camping nights, so I can join the OA." He's still a little fuzzy on the election process. He caught the vision. In two weeks we will have the first Eagle COH in our troop since my son became a Scout. They are going to make it a short ceremony (maybe even too short), and I will be adminstering the Eagle Oath. I hope that my son, the ten newly "crossed over" boys, the boys stalled at 2nd class and the ones stalled at Life catch a little more vision that night of what their future can hold, because of the honor we will all be paying to this young man.

Sure, if I invited a preacher, sure I'd expect him to preach. But I'm not sure that encompasses it all. Speaking for myself only, I see myself as a pastor first and a preacher only as a part of that role. A pastor is a shepherd, responsible for the long term spiritual care of a person or a group of people. That's as much about lunch time meetings, late night phone calls in tears, hospital visits and weekends at retreats, as is is about monologuing (sp?). (I'm sure most of you know that, but sometimes people forget it.) My assumption, from an informed Scout point of view, would be that I was there to speak about the new Eagle from the standpoint of a Scout is Reverent and Duty to God. Maybe to challenge him to soar to new heights in these areas or to lead others who come behind. Then again, if the new Eagle asked me to come deliver a fire and brimstone sermon and no one told me it would not be appropriate in this setting, I'd do just that. (Well maybe not but that's not my style.) So once again it comes back to communicating to the speaker what you want.

Amen - "May it be so"

Well, as a youth pastor, I am sorry to hear that this person did a poor job. Often times adults who are not familiar with Scouting don't know what to say, so they say what they know. I have been called into situations like that outside of Scouting and my own congregation, and it requires real prep work to know your audience. Good ideas across the board. Give clear parameters (topic and time limit) to your speakers. Don't assume the message given wasn't the Eagle's choice (unless you are so bold as to ask) Ask the members of the clergy unfamiliar with Scouting to provide an invocation. Help all speakers to know their intended audience and what is appropriate in a Scout setting. Oh and speaking of people using a platform for their own purposes rather than the one it was intended for, may I suggest the use of the Private Messages feature for personal matters in order to avoid confusion for readers as well as extraneous postings to wade through looking for material related to the thread. Wish I was going to Jamboree and I hope you have a great time. I'll see you at both of the 100th anniversaries 2007 & 2010! I hope that was tactful enough, I don't mean in any way to offend. They are only a slightly annoying, because they are not a consistent problem by any means, but it seemed ironic to have this sub-thread interwoven here of all places.:-)

Some of us don't touch the coffee, and stick to hot chocolate (or for those of us trying to kepp ourselves more physically fit, Diet Coke). So whatever your camping beverage of choice is, welcome. We'd love to know a little aobut your Scouting life. I checked out your site and tried to look at your profile but couldn't find anything related. So pull up a stump and tell us your story, the campfire burns 24 hours a day here.

Thank you Packsaddle. I take it as a compliment and appreciate it.

Hurray for you. Yes Hunt you can still post here after that. I'd love to hear about your continued success. Julie, Kudos to you and your husband. It's always easier to do something with a partner. Keep at it. The whole reason for asking only obese (and overwieght included) was to keep this thread supportive of one another as people who are walking the path together towards fitness.

So now that I've posted the question, I'll post my own situation. I've been losing weight for the past few months. Mainstays of my diet are crockpot cooking, Subway wraps and Carl's Jr. Charbroiled Chicken Sandwiches (extra lettuce, extra tomato, extra onion - all at no extra charge). I have no good answer for campout food except restraint. I spent the past week between OA Conclave and at a youth church camp and it set me back 5 pounds. I'm shooting to get down to 200 (I don't want to be skinny) and I've got 110 pounds to go (it was 105 last week). I treadmill a few times a week and use the time to pray. One minute for for this..., one for him..., one for her...it is amazing how fast 20 minutes flies by. Only a month into my exercise program I staffed an OA event. During the course of the night, I walked about 12 miles up and down hills. Yes, it wore me out, but I hung in there all night. I'm wearing my 3X shirts now and when I get down to 2X in a few months, I'll pull the patches from the 4X (currently my backups) and trade or sell them.

Okay, if you aren't obese, this isn't for you, read but please don't post. I'd like this thread to be a place to encourage and celebrate Scouters who are doing something change their weight. Hunt has lost 5 pounds, Seattle Pioneer reported losing 50. Hurray! I'm sure there are more. Please post us with your successes and your failures. Tell us what you're eating, especially when you dine out or camp out. Tell us what you do to exercise and how it helps you, especially as a Scouter. Oh and maybe we can do some uniform exchanging along the way.

I have to agree with Hunt." continue to think that a Scouter who is overweight and/or out of shape (like me) fails to set the best possible example for Scouts IN THAT LIMITED RESPECT. After all, I too am a wonderful person in almost every way, and I don't want to be judged just on my appearance, and Scouting should be grateful to have me as a volunteer, etc., etc., etc. Still IN THE LIMITED RESPECT of fitness, I know that I can set a better example than I am doing." I don't think that Seattle Pioneer's question is an invalid one, not do I think that he means to offend. One of the things we need to know as Scouts or Scouters is what it is to have a true friend. Somewhere along the line, Nutz, you came to realize that you needed to sober up. (By the way congratualtions.) I'm also going to guess that you didn't do it alone. Whether it was the support of your wife, a friend, your pastor, a sponsor and a program, or the work of God, you didn't do it alone. (By the way congratulations on four years.) Seattle Pioneer you asked two questions. #2 was What are the responsibilities of obese Scouters? A Scouter's responsiblity is to do their best. There best for God and country, their best for others, and their best for themselves. I will tell you that for most of the overweight scouters, they probably feel like they are doing their best to keep themselves fit. Even if you don't think they are, how can you know? The first was What are suitable ways of dealing with Scouters who are obese and a poor example for Scouts because of that? So here is the suitable way to deal with a Scouter who is overweight. 1. Become their friend, really their friend. Not becasue you want to change, them but because they are someone of worth and value even if they never lose another pound. THEN... 2. Give them access into your weaknesses and failings, and ask them to help. THEN... 3. Be brave enough to tell them your concern for their health and their example to the boys in that area, and when they are ready to change, be there for them. That may mean going out of your wayto exercise on their schedule. It may mean eating at the restaurant you don't like, but it has a healthy fare. It may mean waiting longer for them to decide to change. If it sounds like work, it is. If it sounds like it will tke a long time, it will. If it sounds more like a lifetime commitment, it is. But we didn't become Scouters because we believe in the quick fix. We invest in boys lives over years. By the way, in my years of being overweight hundreds of people have been so kind as to tell me about the diet their cousin went on and lost 20 pounds. Trust me, we all know why we are overweight and how to change. Move more, eat less. It's the challenge of doing it. I have directly asked people who were "worried about my weight" to make time to regularly exercise with me. Noone has ever said "yes" and followed through. They've never even invited me to their regular exercise time. So let me come back to what Hunt said. I know that I'm not the best example of fitness. I need to change that and I'll say to all the rest of you who like me know you're unhealthy, It's time to change, for the Scouts, for our families, for ourselves.

Well, if I recall correctly I said something profound like, "Hi," at a camporee in '81, to the younger sister of one of my fellow Scouts. It seems to have worked. She served cake to everyone at my Eagle Court of Honor in '83 and we served it to each other at our wedding in '90. But for a cheesy pickup line how about, "I've been Scouting for you" "My tent or yours?" "I think I've just found the 11th essential, it's you"

Well I am Mr. 3X (formerly Mr. 4X). The reason for my change was because I became a role model in the troop. There is no good way to approach this topic. You can't tell the adult to so eat away from the boys, like you can tell a smoker. You can't ban food fom outings. like you can alcohol. You can help us and set an example for the boys by having good healthy, reasonably portioned meals on outings. This is a very difficult topic, the character of our adult volunteers. National sets the baseline by eliminating homosexuals and atheists because they don't show the characteristics that Scouting upholds. Maybe there's a committe on obesity already hard at work. I'm sure that we won't get the ACLU to defend us if we get kicked out. :-) But most importantly, I think we need to remember that of the three, morally straight, mentally awake and physically strong. the physically strong, particularly obesity, is the hardest to hide. The boys know who's fat and who's fit. They can tell the difference between a mule (AKA Sturgen) and a whale. They won't look to the latter as role models in fitness. But if you give us up, you will probalby be giving up excellent models in other areas of life.

Okay, my turn to weigh in on this one. :-( The troop with which I am registered and to which my son belongs, has a horrible uniform policy. They wear the uniform shirt, neckershief and Scout Hat. Typically, uniform shirts are not tucked in to the gym shorts (of every color) that they are wearing. Most of them have Scout pants, but don't wear them except to a Court of Honor or Board of Reivew. When they wear a jacket or sweatshirt, you can't even tell their Scouts. Between Memorial day and Labor day, the "Class B" uniform (their word not mine so don't jump on me), is worn, except when traveling to campouts. Three adults always wear their full uniforms including the Scoutmaster and me. None of the 3 ASM's wear more than the Scout shirt, but they are regularly tucked in. My son is the only boy who wears the entire uniform to every meeting. Subsequently, he carries the American Flag for every opening flag ceremony. Having said this, I must say that in the past year, the troop has moved in the right directions. We've finally come to embrace the patrol method and are in transition now, and are doing a fair to good job on the other six methods. They'll get even better when the other two cylinders are firing as well. I'm hopeful about this troop's future and I am glad to be a part of the change.

Welcome, we are always eager to have Eagles and Arrowmen around our campfire. We look forward to your perspective and input along with your stories and questions.

Another troop in our area makes those same requirements for Star and Life. The indidvidual must plan and carry out a project of their own which meets those hour requirements. This same troop has made a rule that no boys makes Eagle before turning 16. I find both of these completely improper on the part of the Scoutmaster and other troop leadership. I would read the Scoutmaster's approval of the service hours to be there to ensure that the service is planned and of the caliber fitting the boy himself and his rank, but not to prescribe the hours or to rewrite the rewuirements description.

Well let me chime in for two more lodges in W4B. I am a former Lodge Chief of Navajo Lodge (Old Baldy Council), and former Chapter Chief, Kinaani Chapter (Sunset Chapter). (Youth) Now live in America's Finest City, San Diego. That means I am a member of Tiwahe Lodge (San Diego-Imperial Council). Wulinaixn Chapter (Black Mountain District). (Adult)

I couldn't agree more OGE, acts of physical and emotional violence should be erradicated from any BSA practice. The only reason that I should be sore after a campout is from the hiking, not the ceremony where I was honored. I wanted to be an OA member so badly, I would have put up with anything. That doesn't make it right. Appropriate and desired physical contact is good; a handshake, a hand on the shoulder. We can maintain the TAP part of the Tap Out, we can maintain the mystery without hazing without hurting. I really like Meamemg's suggestion on using the Scout Sign - I have not seen it writtten anywhere as policy, but I'm not on a ceremony team, and Trevorum's "laying on of hands." Srisom, I don't think that it was only a few who complained. However many there were, they spoke for hundreds or thousands more who just put up with it in silence.

The troop that I have been a part of for the past year, had never attended a Camporee in the 20 years as a troop. That changed this year. The "old guard" of the troop has been skipping several of the methods, including the patrol method and uniforms. On my first visit to the troop one parent went so far as to mock those troops. (He had no idea of my Scouting background or opinions. Hey he probably doesn't even know there are methods.) Fortunately, a new group has come in that has brought us closer and closer implementing the 8. In my opinion, Camporees will demonstrate how closerly a troop follow the methods, especially Leadership, Patrol Method, Uniform, & The Outdoors. By the way, our boys had a great time and it was our best attended event of the past 12 months, even without some of the "old guard". One patrol took first in 2 of 10 events and 3rd in another, but it also showed some of our weaknesses. A new Eagle Scout didn't know how to tie a bowline and our SPL couldn't tie two-half hitches. But that SPL swears we'll be back next year, he had a great time. So how do we draw them in. I guess that depends on your resources. What if the theme were more of an Extreme Scouting or Fear Factor tone. Perhaps you could have 2 or 3 tracks patrols could choose some more mental, others more physical. Can you use a rifle range or archery range? Do you have a climbing area (or rent one that comes in on a truck?) Is there a moutain biking opportunity to mix with a compass course? But we can't give up the ship, it should still rest on the foundations of Scouting and the methods, spurring them on to come back the next year BEtter PREPARED.

Caoming from the era of Tap-outs, I will tell you that our lodge did not divulge the results until our camporee. (This helped to boost camporee attendance) The new Ordeal Candidates were grabbed at the campfire, escorted (roughly) to Chief, pounded out-I mean tapped out, given a token to wear around their neck and put under a night of silence. It was quite an honor, really. I waited three long years to be "tapped out." This past weekend our District Camporee had about 30% of the units represented and only 2 of the units had not told the boys about their election immediately (ours being one of them). The boys were picked up at their troop sites and taken to a location for a short explanation of what was to come. I'm not really sure why we even had them. I know we need to eliminate the harsh stuff, the hazing and "secret order" ideas. But in this lodge (not the one I grew up in) we have taken some of the anticipation, mystery and ceremony out that could have easily been left in.

"Is democracy really part of the Scouting philosophy? Does Gods (sic) grace include Buddhists, Muslims, Hare Krishnas for instance. Again I'll refer to the Nepal Scouts as my example. Below I have posted the Promise and Law of the Nepal Scouts. Point 7 "A Scout obeys the orders of his King, parents, Patrol Leaders, Scoutmasters without question," certainly does not promote democracy, but point 4 is more telling. "A Scout is a friend to all and a brother to every other Scout no matter to what country, class or creed the other may belong." In a country where the class system is still a very strong part of their social fabric, it shows the positive and democratic influence. The question about God's grace is primarily a theological one, that I will refrain from answering, but notice the reference to God in their promise. To pursue this further it would help to look at the Scout Laws and Promises from countries around the world. Promise: On my honour I promise that I will do my best: To do my duty to God/Dharma, my Country and the King, To help other people at all times. To obey the Scout Law. Law: 1. A Scout's honour is to be trusted. 2. A Scout is loyal to his country. 3. A Scout's duty is to be useful and to help others. 4. A Scout is a friend to all and a brother to every other Scout no matter to what country, class or creed the other may belong. 5. A Scout is courteous. 6. A Scout is a friend to animals. 7. A Scout obeys the orders of his King, parents, Patrol Leaders, Scoutmasters without question. 8. A Scout smiles and whistles under all difficulties. 9. A Scout is thrifty. 10. A Scout is clean in thought, word and deed. My fingers are tired and I'm going to bed. It's 2:30 in the afternoon in Nepal. (That makes it 1:45 in the morning here.) Yours in democratic, God's grace spreading, and sometimes gender separating Scouting, ;-)

As one from a country who still has separate programs, allow me to respond using the material from the FAQ page of www.bsalegal.org Q. Why cant girls participate in Cub and Boy Scouting? A. The Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs were designed to meet the emotional, psychological, physical and other needs of boys at various stages of their development. Boys in this age range seek out and enjoy group activities with other boys. These programs were developed after careful professional consideration. The Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. and other female youth organizations have developed programs designed to meet the needs of young girls. The Boy Scouts of America is a private organization, and as such, determines its own membership standards. Q. Is the Boy Scouts of America discriminating against girls? A. Of course not. Older girls may join Venturing. In the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs, Boy Scouts of America is simply providing a program designed for young boys, just as the Girl Scout program is designed for young girls. Q. Why did the Boy Scouts of America open all of the volunteer ranks to women? A. Women have been an essential aspect of Boy Scouts leadership for many years. In order to provide male role models for boys, Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster positions had been limited to men, but in 1988 those volunteer positions were opened to women as well. Today over 400,000 women serve as registered volunteers in all levels of Scouting. I personally support co-ed programs like Venturing. However, boys and girls are different (in case anyone here hadn't noticed) As someone who works with 11-18 year olds every day, I believe that particularly the 11-14 year old boys think and act very differently than their female counterparts. Having separate programs at this age is a very good thing. The disservice that we have done is to not promote the achievements of our Girl Scouts. Many know that earning your Eagle is a difficult thing, but how many know what the Gold Award takes? It is only in the past year or so, that I found out. I recently visited the Astronaut Hall of Fame in Florida. An entire display spoke about astornauts in Scouts. It listed every astronaut who had ever been a Cub Scout or Boy Scout. Of course it made special mention of the Eagle Scouts. But it only spoke of Boy Scouts. I don't know if any of the female astronauts were in Girl Scouts and that's not right. Think of it this way, I don't try to wear my wife's pants. They are not shaped for me. She doesn't wear my shirts, but she does occasionally borrow my tube socks. We both select clothes that fit us in all the right ways. The important thing is not that we have the same program, but that our programs meet our needs and that we recognize achievement where and when it happens. As they grow older, things like Venturing and Sea Scouts open the doors to a gender shared experience. Having said that, I believe that perhaps we should open up the opportunties for advancement to Eagle Scout or Quartermaster Award, to the girls who particiapte in those programs. I'll hit the democracy issue in another posting. Well, ozemu, when the pill wears off, I'll look forward to your reply.

Wow, sounds like your keeping busy. We'll look forward to hearing aobu the trials and the victories. I'm sure you'll find the forum a helpful resource.

Welcome fellow Eagle. It is great to have someone here who is passionate about Scouts and about the church. Don't try to do everything, it's okay to focus on a few things. Right now your wife, college and the Pack are plenty. You are beign a good Arrowman by serving the program. So pay your dues and wear your lodge flap with pride. We look forward to hearing more from you. By the way, what does your wife do for the church?