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Posts posted by Eagle94-A1

  1. Here is the deal @RichardB. A rule that supposedly has been a round for a few years, yet NO ONE , including councils, knew anything about except for you is being placed up on us for no reason whatsoever. In fact we pointed out instances in BSA's own literature that showed the rule is brand new. And the were taken down. 

    We, the unit serving volunteers want to know why it is acceptable for a pack to camp two nights at a council event, but not on their own at a council approved location? We want an explanation as to why something that has been allowed for over 20 years is no longer allowed.

    As to the links you provide, they do not answer the question we all have: Why are packs limited to 1 night of camping on their own when this has never been a published rule, and was in no BSA literature previously? (emphasis added).


    As for my Dodgeball fixation ,  when will you change the FAQ to remove the lie " Dodgeball has never been an authorized activity in Scouting"  A Scout is Trustworthy.  We both know it was indeed an approved activity since at least 1929 until the ban in 2018. Heck I even gave you the link on BSA's own website about Dodgeball being an approved game. Which you quickly removed. All you need to do is remove the sentence ," Dodgeball has never been an authorized activity in Scouting" from the FAQs and I would be fine.

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  2. The only rationale for this arbitrary rule is that the folks making it are under the impression that 'Cubs don't need to camp." Yep heard this from a member of the council camping committee a while back.

    I know one pack will now start having two overnight experiences when they do pack camping. One overnight experience will be from 5PM Friday to 12:00 Saturday, and a second overnight experience from 12PM Saturday to 11AM Sunday. Families can choose which overnight experience they want to attend, or if they want to do two over night experiences in a month.


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  3. 22 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

     It is weird how an organization that promotes honesty uses this level of deceit and disingenuous practice. In this very thread we have now seen a rule change, not a clarificarion, while being told it has always been this way.

    Don't worry, I am still waiting for the FAQ on Dodgeball to be changed. Before they took it down off their website,  I pointed out how Dodgeball, and several varients, were approved games by BSA, and gave them the link. They took down the link, but never changed the FAQ.

    Thankfully print copies showing they are lying about Dodgeball exist.

  4. 2 hours ago, KublaiKen said:

    Just to make sure I understand how to keep kids safe: BSA maintains that it is safe to camp two nights in groups smaller than a Pack (i.e., a Den), and larger than the Pack (e.g., a Council camp), but at the exact size* of a Pack a second night presents an inherent level of danger so great that it cannot be mitigated and such events must be banned. And to be clear, camping is allowed in all of these individual circumstances, but the second night is the huge risk, the safety violation. Is this right?

    * - How big is a Pack?

    Actually if you look up Webelos Overnighter in the Language of Scouting webpage, they changed it last week to say"  1 night." Prior to that, it was "one or two nights."

    Welcome to 1984.

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  5. @5thGenTexan, WOW that is not a troop but Cub Scouts. I will give you an example of what I mean.

    Last year the troop did a whitewater rafting trip. We wanted to make sure everyone going was prepared, and worked on those knowledge and skills for 3 weeks. Those folks got the Whitewater Award, and some advancement done.

  6. 44 minutes ago, nolesrule said:

     The prohibition on camporee overnight attendance means a Webelos or AOL den cannot camp with a troop at a camporee. I don't know what makes a camporee inherently more risky or what other reasoning they are using. One would have to ask national.

    The prohibition has been around on and off since before i was a Cub Scout, I remember riding 3 hours round trip to visit a camporee, and upset because I could not stay over. I actually spent more time on the road.

    One way I have seen councils get around the prohibition is to have an all ages event where Cubs, Scouts, Sea Scouts, Explorers, and Venturers attend. In one council, it is mostly Cub Scout events, but has enough Scout+ events to attract troop, ship, post, and crew interest. Another council had their Cub Family Campout and Camporee the same weekend at the same location. There was a designated area for Cubs, Designated area for Scouts, and a common area where both were allowed.

    Now for a brief period of time circa 2012 to circa 2021, the prohibition on Webelos camping at camporee was NOT in effect, and I know at least one council  pushed Webelos to attend camporees. I know  when i was running camporee, we had one event specifically for Webelos, and they could do all of the events the Scouts did. Everyone on staff was on board with showing the Webelos how to do things they did not know, and letting htem try themselves.



    What I do not understand is if a council run event is safer than a unit organized one and can run 2 + nights, why would a camporee not be safe for overnight camping?

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  7. 10 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    I don't deny that Scouting should be fun, but when the entire emphasis is on fun above all else without goals of the Aims & Methods...  Leadership skils, character development, citizenship, etc.    Well, then all you have is an outdoor play group with uniforms.

    Troop I grew up in used the term "Stealth Advancement" basically having fun but learning at the same time. Best example was the ASM who let the Leadership Corps drive his boat  IF they spent the time with him learning how to drive his boat. We did, had a blast, and at the COH about 1-2 months after the boating weekend, we received Motorboating MB. Everything he taught us met the requirements, and then some.

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  8. Folks,

    Has anyone ever heard that you are not covered by BSA's insurance if you do a fundraiser, and their is no Fundraising Application? I saw this comment on a FB post, and it sound funny. I was told that the purpose of the Fundraising application was to A. stay in United Way's good graces, i.e. not fundraise when they are and B. to avoid solicitating donations from companies that the council is going after.

  9. 15 hours ago, Wëlënakwsu said:

     Anecdotally... after appeal; membership was rarely, if ever, reinstated.

    I have read of only 1, stressing ONE, case that ever had the person reinstated. That person went to a bar, in uniform, to make a phone call because the troop bus broke down and the bar was the closest place with a phone. He was in and out of the bar within 20 minutes, and did not order any beverages. Someone saw him walking out of the bar in uniform and called his council on him. Took several months for him to be reinstated.

    Sadly I know someone who was thrown out of Scouting, had a criminal investigation into the alleged incident, and had charges dropped because the evidence showed her story to be correct. They found the peephole into the shower house and evidence of what the teen was doing. She was never reinstated.

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  10. 2 hours ago, Chisos said:

    You get a concurring opinion from my son who is working on his Eagle application.   :)

    the Service Project workbook and the application are the reasons why he said it. FYI I did not know this until recentlyu, but you can find out when eagle is approved and official in the SCOUTBOOK records. No more waiting for the certificate to come in.

    Sadly you cannot  correct the entry once it is done. My youngest earned Eagle on one day, but they put the date in his records as a few days earlier. Tried to correct it, and was unable. At this point we don't care what date it is, he is an Eagle is all that matters.

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  11. 47 minutes ago, Alec27 said:

    So far so good.  SB is letting us enter the leadership roles and the day counter looks accurate.  Fingers crossed when it comes time to populate into his eagle app, but so far so good.  Thank you !!

    The Scout can always download the Eagle Application and fill it out themselves if there are issues. Just have a paper copy of the info ready.


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  12. I have had 1 unit call references. I had another unit do a criminal background check on me, in addition to checking references. Kinda nice having a LEO as SM. :) 

    The other units did not do background checks as I was a known volunteer, and in fact helped train some Scouters prior to joining the units. Or I grew up in the unit.

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  13. Yes, the ITOLS cause can take some time to complete as that is a physical, weekend long class. In one council I was in, it was offered 2 times a year. Another council I was in, each district offered it once per year.

    And I would double check your records. None of my committee members are "trained," yet all of them have been to WB and have years of experience in various Scouting roles.

  14. 1 hour ago, ShootingSports said:

    The difference seems to be in Unit camping on their own and not on council property - limited to one night.  

    Council camp with program provided then 2 nights is ok.

    Yes, but why can a Webelos Den do 2 nights on their own, but the entire pack cannot? And why limit packs to one nite, unless it is council run?


  15. 1 hour ago, HashTagScouts said:

    If you are concerned about additional responsibilities, use the Unit Scouter Reserve position. They are not ASMs nor Committee members. 

    I think folks are more concerned about A. allowing Scout activities to be open to parents which is something BSA has promoted, and B. financial situation of families. I am so glad my oldest is out and Middle ages out this year. But if these prices were around when all 5 of us in my family were involved, it would be over $400 just to register.

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  16. On a different note, any idea why Webelos are not allowed to camp at Camporees once again? I know for a fact that policy was rescinded in 2014 becuase it was no long listed in the GTSS for a number of years. The council I am in encouraged troop to have Webelos camp with them as a recruiting tool. And when the policy came back into effect int he past few years, the council  had a camporee already planned, had promotional materials sent and publicized to both Webelos and Troops, and had activities planned for the Webelos to do. Pros  allowed it to happen because it was already planned and no notice that the policy was being reinstated went out to them in advance. So it was the last camporee with Webelos camping.


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  17. 4 hours ago, scoutldr said:

    Again, clarity seems to evade most BSA statements.  Does the adjective "singular" modify "overnight" or "experience"?  If the intent is to spend only one night, then say that.  Or, "Cub camping is limited to one night per outing." 

    Good catch. A two night weekend camp out is a 'single overnight experience. 



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  18. 1 hour ago, PACAN said:

    @RichardB   Oh keeper of the G2SS can/will you provide us more than a link to the dictionary on the whys/logic/decision process on the cub "single overnight experience"?    Is there a safety issue?   YPT issue?  Thanks.

    Especially since it appears that not even a SE knew about this rule.

    And why can councils do multinights, but not units? I've known packs that not only had BSA qualifcations for Cub Camping, but Scout and advanced outside agencies, i.e. SAR, Swift Water rescue, ad nauseum.


  19. As someone involved in Scouting since before Cub Scout packs could conduct overnight camping trips, and as someone who taught BALOO, this "Single Overnight Experience Policy" is indeed new.  I have never seen it written in any BSA literature I have or used to teach BALOO that limited Cub Scout packs to 1 night. This is going to hurt many packs now, and in the future, especially when all the camp closures come about due to the bankruptcy.  

    On a different note, what happens in those councils that do not have a list of approved campsites? And when asked about the approval process are told "Cubs don't need to camp." I ask because because there are councils out there that do not have a list, so packs use the OA's Where To Go Camping. Especially since state parks meet the Cub Scouts standards better than their own camps.

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