Eagle94-A1

@@ProScouter06,

Welcome back from the Dark Side.

Well last nite was interesting.  We had two, unannounced visitors. One was a Webelos, the other was a Scout looking for a new troop.

Bad news was that things got changed on us by the CO at the last minute. Long story short, we had to do an impromptu service project for the church. I'm very happy we did it because the troop needed to do something to thank the church. We eventually got around to patrol corners and the work that really needed to be done for the camp out.

Good news is that the transferring Scout likes the fact that we camp 10 months of the year, do a lock in 1 month, and do summer camp the last month.

As a former professional,  I can sympathize greatly with local pros. It is a tough, demanding job. I've seen too many pros sacrifice their families and health. I've had friends and coworkers have mental breakdowns and other stress related health issues because of the job.  I have had friends get divorced because of the time away from their families. I was fortunate in that my wife of 2 months gave me an ultimatum. Several of my friends had wives either walk out on them, or kick them out. Worse one was my friend who put his wife through law school, then was served divorce papers by her after her graduation ceremony!

The disdain and animosity towards professionals, at least for me, comes down to two things. First and foremost are those that lose the vision of Scouting, and it becomes a job for them. They do whatever it takes, including some questionable stuff to put it mildly, in order to meet their Far Exceeds goals, or be #1 in their division. I'd rather have a solid, attractive program every year, than a great recruiting or FOS year, but have a lousy program and lose donors and members after the stellar year.

The other problem pros IMHO are the ones who were either not involved in Scouting prior to being a professional, or have moved so far away from the boots on the ground, that they no longer know what it is like at the unit service level. One boss I had was never in Boy Scouts or Exploring. Had no idea what it was like, and how camp operations were like. Zero experience whatsoever. I was hired because I had 4 seasons of summer camp staffing at 4 different camps. Freaked out when she read my proposed SOP manual for camp operations. Questioned every single point in it, and  would not listen to anything I would say. And didn't even stay at camp to see how things were done once we started, she just assumed. Only when she worked Jambo did she realize how she screwed up stuff.

And when volunteers see stuff like Department of Labor laws for businesses being applied to Scouting, you do question the sanity of those in Irving. Heck my Bears, when the DOL rules were incorporated into the G2SS, thought I was joking when I said they couldn't use their little red wagons for a service project.  And off course there is going to be push back when the folks in Irving, farm removed from the unit level apparently, try to mandate having trained leaders redo basic training every time the course changes. It took me 18 months to get trained, and that was only with me involved with a troop and going to college. Nowadays I have 3 district level PORs, serve as an ASM with a troop, serve as  pack MC, plus have a job and family. Yet training I had and have applied all these years is no longer valid because the name changed?

To quote one long term volunteer on this topic, "I've forgotten more about Scouting than you've ever learned, and I still know more than you do!"  And the volunteer did!

For a more humorous digression

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bsastaffer/truths-about-being-a-professional-scouter-j3wp

ah, but monthly plop camping doesn't really cover backpacking

You'd be surprised. First time we did any type of backpacking was essentially plop camping. Only a few of the Scouts have backpacks, mostly those going to Philmont, So the troop plopped it. HOWEVER, all meals had to be backpacking meals and only stoves if used  were backpacking stoves.Anyone going to Philmont had take down camp, and backpack the trail, while the others worked on hiking requirements.

I can see this for new leaders, but Star Scouts? They should have had these topics covered already. I know T-2-1 requirements covers all of these topics, and cannot see how a one day course can expand those skills. MONTHLY CAMPING (emphasis) is the way to do it.

HOWEVER, if the course is designed to help the Scouts TEACH these skills at the troop level, I'm good. BUT it better be hands on.

I am a lifelong Scout and Scouter, and it is painful to see a movement that I so deeply love and believe in miss the mark as widely as it does with Wood Badge.  Wood Badge has the potential to drive a more consistently high-quality program for many more kids.  To do so requires a pretty radical re-imagination of what Wood Badge means.  

 

I am with you so far. I've been involved with Scouting for a while. And   WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!

 

I would like to see a training approach markedly different from that taken by BSA for the current program.  I quickly sketch out a few problems I see with the current approach, then suggest a different approach for consideration and discussion.  

 

A few significant problems with the current approach:

• Ungainly and labor-intensive:  A cumbersome structure with a large staff, a long preparation lead-up, and 18 months of follow-up.  I think other training suffers from the resource drain.

While not a WBer, I have staffed JLTC ( or as some called it WB Lite) and done my time as a trainer. Reason for the large staff is to demonstrate how the more people involved in a unit, the easier the work load is. Also emphasizes using the resources. Pre-WB21C, most WBers I knew had staffed district and council  level training events as a ticket item. When I did SM Fundamentals, about 1/2, maybe more, of the staff were working their ticket. When I staffed JLTC 75% of the adults were working their ticket.

• Programmatically unfocused:  It tries to cover so many things that many of them are covered poorly.  What do the kids need their leaders to know?  Boy Scout leaders pretend to be a Cub for a few hours? Cub leaders pretend for days to be Boy Scouts?  We have even less of an idea about how to incorporate Venturing, let alone Varsity. 

Agree with you. Someone at national came up with the idea of "one size fits all" in regards to training. While some training can be combined IMHO, i.e OWL and IOLS, WB really needs to go back to separate CS and BS versions.  I know there was an Exploring version back in the day, but do not know how popular it was.

 

• Emphasis Confusion:  Is it important to be outdoors?  Do we need to cook or is it ok for others to cook for us?  Is WB an industry-caliber leadership course that you would take in corporate America at the cost of thousands of dollars?  Does that apply to the Wolf curriculum, the core Eagle merit badges, etc?

"OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING,"  and I personally think it needs to be in the outdoors, utilizing the patrol method, and having the leaders master the skill. One reason why I didn't do WB at Gilwell park when I had the chance; you were living in dorms and in class at the time.

• Resource drain:  Large time and financial commitment for already-strapped volunteers.

Agree, why I have not even considered taking it since getting out of college. That, and being told it would be a waste of time after staffing JLTC. I give up enough weekends and vacation to Scouts, my work is tired of me trying to get off for Scouts. And the cost of the courses around here is enough to do 10 monthly campouts.

• Heavy-handed:  It puts a lot of energy into pitching and attempting to motivate students who are already motivated enough to be in the WB course  Two movies?  Sappy poetry?  Questionable myths presented as fact?  There can be a fine line between motivating people and alienating them through perceived attempted emotional manipulation.

Don't forget elitism as alienating. I've been in councils where if you don't have beads, you don't know $#!^. Heck at a major training, I got strange looks from some  other staffers, because I was teaching a class,  but didn't have have beads.

• Since the course is so complicated, it is hard to update or modify.

IMHO, the leadership principles of pre-WB21C, which were used in BA22 and JLTC, are timeless and really do not need to be updated or modfied EXCEPT in the tools that can be used.

• The ticket is not a training scheme, it is an add-on.  I understand the rhetoric of "now go out and put what you learned into practice," but isn't that what we should be doing in our Scouting positions? I also understand the position that tickets should be tailored to support one's position; anecdotally for many they are add-on make-work projects that many tolerate to get the beads.  

Mixed emotions on this one. One one hand, I agree we should already be what we are doing already. And back in the day, stuff I was doing already were being done by many as ticket items. How the heck am I going to come up with ticket items that would be challenging, but doable if I'm already doing stuff used at ticket items?

 

But how many leaders are actually doing Scouting correctly? How many are doing their own thing? How many need someone looking over their shoulder to make sure they are doing things correctly?

• There is a counterproductive mysticism and mythology surrounding the course.  If it's really the "premier training," "mountaintop experience," etc., then why are so few people taking the course and why do staff have to arm twist so hard to get attendees?

I think, and folks correct me if I am wrong, National is pushing WB. I remember when I was a young leader, WB didn't happen every year or every other year. I remember being encouraged to attend because it might be 4-5 years before the next course, and told I could get a tenure waiver ( you had to be an leader for 3 years prior to attending back then. One of my JLTC troop guides did in fact get a waiver to go b/c he was 18 years, 1 month old when the course was offered). Now they did offer a course a year later, but only because there was so much interest in the first one, they actually had to turn away people. So interest was there, and they did fill the second course. But the third course was about 4 to 5 years after that.

 

Now national wants you either doing a course every year, or working with other councils to have the consortium put one on every year. Hence the pressure to do WB.

 

What might it look like instead?  As far as I can discern, WB was designed by B-P to be Scoutmaster/unit leader training.  The present UK scheme builds on and extends this idea; it is nearly ideal in my estimation:  

• Those people in key positions for which WB is required (hands-on leaders, commissioners, etc.) have three years after appointment to complete WB.  It is not some esoteric "mountaintop experience," rather it is simply required in-depth training for key Scouters.  No mysticism.  No question of whether to participate.
• It is modular:  37 modules comprise the "adult training scheme."  Only those that apply to a Scouter's particular position are required.  
• Modules may generally be completed by attending training or through online/recorded video presentation followed by validation.  
• There is a method to validate prior learning rather than compelling completion of a module already mastered.
• Scouters changing roles need only complete modules not previously credited as completed.
• There is a tie-in with their equivalent of NYLT.
• There is no mention of the word ticket in the scheme.

Ref:  https://members.scouts.org.uk/documents/Adult_Training/Adult%20Training%20Scheme.pdf

 

I think the BSA needs to step back and ask what training our Scouts need their leaders to have.  Then it needs to revamp WB to address those needs (that may mean that a six-day residential course is not required), and make WB mandatory for all hands-on unit leadership and commissioners.  A good start would be to copy the model used by the UK Scout Association.  As adapted to BSA, I suggest the following modifications/clarifications to a matrix, incorporating:

• YPT and quick start modules.
• Trained strip.  Add BALOO to Cub Scouter trained requirements.
• Tie in with Journey to Excellence program.  
• Scouter Training Award.
• Create a system to validate prior training.

In regards to making WB madatory for unit leaders and commissioners, until there is some way to make it more affordable AND more convenient, I AM OPPOSED TO IT (emphasis) .  Affordable is very doable IMHO. Convenience is going to be a challenge. There is a reason why it's either a weeklong, or two weekends. The best way for Boy Scout leaders to understand the Patrol Method, or Scouts from troop who do not use the Patrol Method properly or at all, is to thrust them into a Scouting environment for a a minimum of that time, and essentially use the PM.

 

And some folks are already so passionate and involved in Scouting, that adding this requirement would negatively both their personal and Scouting lives. I know one leader who had to tell his PLC to change dates or change activities because of WB. Same leader was also threatened with divorce because of his involvement at both the unit and council levels. WB was the straw that broke the camel's back with the wife, and once WB was completed, he actually had to step back from some of his duties.

 

I also know of 2 cases where attendance at WB eventually caused two divorces.

 

YPT is already to be rechartered, and see no problems there.

I agree with BALOO and trained strip, especially since Cubs are doing camping. HOWEVER I do see some push against this from LDS leaders since they do not camp.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Training and JTE are already tied in. BUT if you want WB trained leaders tied into JTE, then I am opposed for the reasons above.

 

Back in the day if memory serves, if you were eligible for WB without a tenure waiver, you met the requirements for Scouter Training Award.

 

As for training records, that is easier said than done. Up until SCOUTNET came about in 1998, training records were on paper. Unless your council kept great records in a great location AND you have a team of volunteers to go through them,  you gotta take the word of us old fogeys. And you can't even look for training cards. I didn't receive a standard "training completed" card fro several of my courses, but locally made certificates or "diplomas."

 

Then you got the programming and inputting problems with SCOUTNET. When the big push to get training records into SCOUTNET came out in the early to mid 2000s, only the most current training courses were listed. None of the older courses were listed. The workaround we were told to use was enter the current training code(s), but enter the dates of the we took the course(s). So my Scoutmaster Fundamentals in 1993 became New Leader Orientation, SM and ASM Specific Training, and Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills in 1993.  Eventually some of the older courses were put into the system, and the system started to discriminate dates. So all the leaders I used the fix above started being listed as "Untrained" again. Trusted me, I had a lot of ticked off leaders, especially the district commissioner who trained all UCs for the council and served on Philmont Training Center staff! So it was back to the beginning AGAIN.  And some of the courses were STILL missing. Some of those affected had served as training staff, so I used the courses and dates that they staffed.

 

THEN national had the crazy idea of only counting the most current courses for wearing the "Trained" strip and JTE. So everytime  the course changes, leaders would have to go through training again. Thankfully a compromise came about;  local training chairmen can approve of disapprove older training. this was after a lot of pushback. PLUS if this was policy, EVERY CS leader as of June 1st would have to go through training again.

 

BUT it is the reason why I suggest that every trainer includes their information as a student on training reports now.

 

This approach addresses all of the shortcomings I perceive and ensures a consistent level of training for all front-line leaders, rather than having just a few participate in WB.

 

P.S.  If you want a ticket scheme, make that part of a new service award with square knot, not part of Wood Badge.

I'd wear a campaign hat, but I'm too thrifty (read, cheap) to purchase one. 

I hear ya. I lucked out with mine First one I earned upon completing Brownsea 22, as that was the recognition as well as a patch.  The council issued US GI surplus hats to those that graduated. That one went through 1 hurricane, numerous camp outs, being shot at by German Scouts, etc.  I did buy a BSA chinstrap, but use a British Scout Association's hatband that is branded with the camps I worked at over there, and a plume I got at BP House.

Second one issued to the "youth" staff who worked JLTC.  It was number of years after my BA22 course that the council did JLTC.  At 20, I was a "youth" and SPL. I was also the only person to have done BA22 or JLTC on staff. Council reintroduced the Smokeys upon completing JLTC, and since none of the youth staff had Smokeys already, and mine was "experienced" They issued us ones to wear. Again US GI surplus hat with Scout Association branded hatband and BSA chin strap. However, I gave my BP House plume away, and now wear a 2007 Century Anniversary plume.

I'm under 55 and wear one. In my old council, only folks you saw with Smokeys were WBers, and BA22 and JLTC graduates. Wore one until I got my Expedition hat when I worked for supply. Since then it's a toss up.

Problem I have with the Smokey is that when I wear it, people assume I'm in charge.

It's YOUR scouting unit. If you can't figure it out, why do you expect someone else to clean it up for you?

I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, but he is referring to units he is a UC for.

One of the great benefits, as well as great disadvantages, is that every unit is different. It's a benefit in that if a unit does not meet you needs, you can hopefully findone that does. It can be a disadvantage when a unit's leadership leadership thinks they know better than the former unit leaders, district trainers, and UCs assigned to them, and they do their own thing. And doing their own thing does not include using the methods of Scouting.

I have such a unit in my district. They were hemorrhaging Scouts, and have only stopped due to a HA trip next year. Last time I camped with them, they were nowhere near ready for HA. Ihope a lot have changed since then.

I've done or seen a bunch of OA ECOHs. I liked them. At one of them, the Eagle even performed a dance at. I've seen everything from a big shindig, to a coh after a troop coh. I also know of one eagle being mailed everything (he was active duty USAF).

My troop had a set script.While the SM and CC played a role, the Eagle usually had a choice in who did what, i.e. who his honor guard is, who had what speakingparts, who is lighting the cansles, etc. I had friends and mentors in the various roles.

I'ld talk to your son and see what he wants to do.

GOOD LUCK!

Scouting's successful future is going to be based on scouting's successful past.   This current baloney dreamed up by Irving--teams of graduated DEs/SEs with MBAs that don't like outdoor adventure, giving smooth briefings in the conference room--ain't going to cut it.

 

The numbers tell the story.

Sad thing is, those DEs who are pro-program either leave in disgust, or are pushed out. 

Lifesaving.... nah.  A boy might already be a certified YMCA Lifeguard......  But again, ok I'll buy it for the average scout.....

ACTUALLY I had my YMCA Lifeguard Instructor register as a MBC so I could get that MB.

And even if a Scout was a certified lifeguard, SOMEONE taught him.

So a question....

Which of the Merit Badges would actually require that the MBC be the teacher?

 

#1 Lifesaving.

#2 First Aid, especially when changes occur.

#3 Canoeing

Shall I go on?

"Banana Republic General"   Hey now there's a new rerason for National to make a few bucks.  They could sell flags with one, to four Flur-de-lays" to signify ego. 

Sea Scout leaders can have their own personal flag like general and flag grade officers.

http://www.scoutstuff.org/sea-scout-leader-flag.html#.VhgaC27ig40

http://www.scoutstuff.org/sea-scout-flag-rating-stars.html#.VhgaDG7ig40

Forgot about the liability insurance. I saw "supplemental" and automatically assumed accident.

Liability insurance, at least back in the day, was on a per person/per event basis. So both Accident Insurance and Liability Insurance had to be budgeted.

And I agree with knowing the insurance policy and procedures. I've made a few mistakes in dealing with the Boy Scout insurance. Thankfully they are very understanding, friendly, and work with you.

Very interesting that the author picked the year 1972 as high water point.    Gosh, something else happened in the BSA that year...that's right, the Improved Scouting Program.   Where National scuttled every winning strategy in its arsenal for something that they perceived as hip, cool, modern, and PC (before there was such a phrase).  Too bad no one outside of National thought so.   Didn't work out so well.  

 

IMHO, it was probably the last year you can get accurate membership records. Remember all those inflated records being discovered in various councils in the late 1990s?   Those SEs pushing membership at any cost and telling their staff how make the membership quotas without getting caught were the DEs of the 1970s who started the membership mess.

Easiest way to bump membership is to now merge LfL with traditional Scouting since the membership policies have changed.

Accident insurance is an interesting, and confusing topic. It can be handled a multitude of ways, and if anyone can give a better, or more current, explanation please do so.

If memory serves correctly, individual units can get the supplemental accident insurance that covers all of their activities. So if you take you troop to the local scout camp and get a dislocated shoulder with fractures, the UNIT ACCIDENT insurance covers it. If you do not take it, then you have to pay out of pocket.

Councils MUST have accident insurance for their events. They need to charge a per person.per event fee to cover it. Again they must have it. So when district/council events are planned, the insurance must be budgeted. So if your unit opted out of the supplemental unit policy above, and go to a district/council camporee, you  will be covered. It sounds like that is what your council is doing.

Another option, one that my council does, is make it MANDATORY for all units to have through the council. At recharter, in addition to the $24 national fee, all participants, INCLUDING TIGER PARTNERS (emphasis) pay $1 for accident insurance. BEST DOLLAR SPENT EVER!

On a personal note, the BSA's insurance company is AWESOME!  I've been dealing with them for the past 2 months. Problems I've have had were VERY easily resolved, and great customer service. Well worth it.

@@scoutldr,

No problem. 

@@John-in-KC

Thanks for the clarification. I could not remember the formal process.

I can't believe that BSA has discontinuied the nesting Patrol Cook Set, that has been around forever.  The skillets weren't anything to write home about, but having the nesting pots was great.   My troop went inactive and after a few years the CO said they needed the space where all the gear was so i had to get rid of it, I made sure I kept the BSA Cook set that i had bought 30+ years ago for the leaders to use.

Unfortunately not everyone in the Supply Division has an actual Scouting or even camping background. So they do not know what they really need to keep and what they don't. Sad thing is at the annual planning conference in December, the PLC was talking about getting those for the patrols. BSA still sold them, and they were about $80 a set. I'm  hoping when they raise the money, we may be able to find some stragglers at council stores or at the nearby national scout shops. Sometimes you can get lucky and find discontinued merchandise. BUT I bet the patrol cook kit goes fast!

Taps on an instrument is a simple melody but very powerful. I think it only has 21 notes. Don't touch the keys on a trumpet and it's a bugle. Have the bugler back away from the audience, where it can be heard but not too sharply.

 

Agree with you.  One of the most powerful versions of TAPS I ever heard is what was locally called "Echo Taps".  2 buglers, either on opposites sides of the parade ground out of view, or one out of view on the parade ground, and the other out of view on the roof at the opposite end of the field,

I think Scoutldr's concern is with UNIT LEADERS ( emphasis) short cutting the system that can affect health and safety.  Compared to legitimate  physical disabilities with COUNCIL/NATIONAL APPROVED modifications to advancement.

@@Krampus ,

PLEASE (begging) tell your buddy Saint Nick I've been good, really! Oh and I look forward to watching you in action on December 4th.

We have one troop that traditionally serves meals at one of the local restaurant chains that was started by veterans. Other than that, the Scouts in my area do not do anything special for Veteran's day as it is called in the US.

Now our Memorial Day is different. We have a district wide service project in conjunction with several veterans' groups. We are the ones putting the flags on Veterans' graves at 5 cemeteries.

As others have commented, Memorial Day has turned more into a "Beginning of Summer" or a three day weekend than a day of remembrance for most Americans. When the local school system decided to start holding school on Memorial Day, most parents protested because it interferred with their day off plans.

Then again I can't say the scouts have always honored Memorial Day either. When I first moved to the area, school was finished by Memorial Day. We were not putting out flags, and Cub Scout day camp started on Memorial Day.

And now we get helicopter recess...

 

http://www.startribune.com/support-seesaws-for-recess-consultant-at-2-edina-elementary-schools/330529851/

REALLY?!?!?!?!?!?!

Agreed.  ... I am just frustrated with MBCs that really have no topical knowledge, interest or drive.  It produces lame experiences.  

 

Essentially, it's the situation where one person says "WE A MBC for XXXX" and someone volunteers.  Well, if they are just a warm body acting as a MBC and not bringing anything to the table as an MBC, they should not be volunteering.

Agree 100% A MBC needs to have the knowledge, skills, and abiltities to cover all aspects of the merit badges