Eagle94-A1

I agree it is not good as it leads to burn out. And I do agree I wear too many hats. Trust me I've stepped back from to focus on the two units I serve.

As for the UC role, gotta remember I'm the Assistant District Commissioner for Cub Scout Roundtable, and was asked to be the temporary UC when the CO's UC died and they could find a replacement. Reason being was that I was with the CO, but not with the troop, and maybe the SM would listen to me. Didn't happen, and I asked to be replaced before a UC could be found. Long story short, there have been two UCs since me, one who was a former ASM with the troop who moved for 2 years and then moved back. Everyone who has tried to help have shaken their head in dismay with the troop.

As for not allowing a Scouter to serve a unit with with another CO, I respect that and understand. You can read in some of my threads how hard it has been for me to remain "neutral" and how I've stayed with the pack because A) friendships my Cubs and I have made and B) sense of commitment to the pack.

I admit if the pack's IH asked me to step aside, I would with great sadness because i think it would destroy the pack. When the Troop's CO restarted their pack and troop,  they asked one of my pack's DLs to be the CM. He stepped down, but didn't say why/ No one knew that the CO was restarting the pack and troop until he showed up to the first Roundtable fo the School year. Over a 4 month period, via word of mouth 1/2 out pack transferred.

Thankfully my Troop's IH will not give me a choice between his church or the pack's church. We've discussed the matter, and he understands and appreciates my sense of commitment to the pack

If someone was poaching from my unit, I wouldn't be on speaking terms with them either.

I gotta laugh at that because you need to read my previous posts over the years about this troop. I have bent over backwards trying to help this troop out.  Here's a quick summary of the past 6 or 7 years.

As soon as I found out the old SM was stepping down and that the new SM and other leaders did not have IOLS, I set up an IOLS course in 3 months working around that troop's schedule specifically to get their leaders trained. The SM was the only one to attend and told me the reason no one else showed up was "it's too cold to camp."

When their UC (who was very active, knowledgeable, and attempted to help them) died, I was appointed UC and tried to help them, only to be told "Scouting needs to change with the times," and ignored. Thinking the SM might listen to the old SM and a former ASM ( he moved to the crew at this point and was district training chair) I got them involved in trying to mentor the SM. They too were ignored.

When the district and pack was recruiting new Cubs and some Boy Scout aged boys showed up, against my better judgment I recruited for the troop. When I ran into them again, 4-6 months later, they had quit the troop and would not consider looking at other troops. EDITED: against my better judgment because I had ran into several Scouts from the troop who either quit, transferred to another unit, or were only registered to stay active with the OA and not the troop. The exodus from the troop had started 2-3 years before my son made a decision to join a different troop.

When the pack and I begged them for den chiefs to not only assist the pack, but also build the relationship with the Boy Scouts and help with recruiting for the troop, we were ignored the first year. Second year they reluctantly provided den chiefs only when they found out another troop asked if they could provide den chiefs ( not my troop by the way). Those den chiefs caused more problems and were eventually sent home and asked not to come back after about 2 months.

When the pack and I begged the SM to invite the Webelos to camp, not only to meet Webelos advancement, but also develop a relationship with the potential new Scouts, it was reluctantly given, the Webelos were not treated nicely, and the troop had major issues. We  begged them two more years to invite us to a camp out, despite the negative experience, only to be told  "No" one year, and the second year we got the invite the week before the event, at which point we had accepted another troop's invitation because we had not heard form them.

When my son decided he would not join that troop after camping with them one time (it was pretty bad), only one Scout and parent in the den knew he was not joining them; his best friend. All four of us deliberately stayed quiet about it until the last minute so that we would not influence the others. Eventually 2 of those who joined quit Scouting altogether, 2 transferred to our troop, and only 1 remained in that troop as his dad is an ASM.

When the troop didn't have enough leaders to camp because most of the Scouts and leaders left early, I stayed behind to make sure they had 2 deep leadership, and tried to talk to the SM about Training, boy run, etc to no avail.

When the troop finally did do something with the Webelos this past March and  the Scouts and I were at the campfire and talking about ways to get involved with the Cubs and ways to recruit new Scouts after having 2 years with no new Scouts crossing over to them, I was told to "SHUT UP AND GO TO BED!" by the SM.

I don't think I have poached, and that's why I gotta laugh.

SM holds on to all blue cards until the scout eagle's and THEN, if he can find them gives them to the scout. Because my son had most of his merit badges done before this troop, SM only lost 3 eagle blue cards and two others on him. Instead of waiting, son went back to MBC to get another blue card signed. This troop is high maintenance to say the least. Ughhhhhh.

I know the blue cards have a section for the Scout to keep as a record, so I don't understand why the SM holds onto all of them until he is an Eagle. Glad he got the MBCs to sign a second card.

Question, can your son get a copy of his SCOUTNET records from the council? I'd be more concerned about that since if the SM loses bluecards, is the records getting turned in to council? And even then, I know for a fact that sometimes councils will lose, misplace, or even use the wrong date the rank and/or MB was earned in the records.  Took  a month AFTER my EBOR for council to fix my records as they had the date they were inputted into their system (preSCOUTNET) instead of the date actually earned.

Some ideas without expanding upon the hurt feelings:

Scouts volunteering at Cub Scout Day Camp, Pinewood derby, etc.

Den Chiefs which is what you are doing already.

Get pics in the newspaper, website, facebook group, etc. Publicity is a good promoter.

Have scouts invite their friends.

Get a list of all the dropped Scouts/ failed to cross over ex Cubs, have the Scouts look at it, and see who they can talk into visiting.

I can understand your situation completely, i.e. involved in one pack but involved in a different troop. I'm still in it, a pack committee member with one CO and an ASM in another CO. SM of the pack's CO's troop and I are not on speaking terms because I "betrayed" the troop by going to another troop, and then Scouts not happy with that troop transferring into mine. Try to not let it bother you.

Last night was another reason why I like having a Scout pay some how, whether doing fundraising or putting "sweat equity" into doing camps and trips.

As you know, my troop's Philmont trip was cancelled, and we had a bunch of upset Scouts. One of the leaders was bound and determine to get the boys on a special backpacking trip and they are doing the AT. One of the Scouts who was suppose to do Philmont is in financial difficulties. The fundraisers didn't pan out as planned (one reason trip got cancelled). Anyway, to go on  the AT trek, The Scout was borrowing a bunch of the gear needed for the trek. They leave Friday, and he backed out last night for "family reasons."  Trip is the same week as the Philmont trek, has been planned since the folks knew Philmont was cancelled (heck planning started before it was announced to everyone as the AT trek leader found out before anyone else did!). And since they were going low budget, each person was responsible for their own food, the "big" cost of the trip, other than gear which he was borrowing. Needless to say, very disappointing.

I think we need to consider the very real possibility that a financially struggling family might be invited to a special event as somebody else's guest.  

That is a very real possibility. My wife's best friend and my in-laws had a conspiracy to send us to Orlando to go to Disney as a Christmas present. Friend had a timeshare she couldn't use last year, and the in-laws paid for the tickets. We could not afford to go otherwise.

Edited: One thing I did was mention that fact to folks, because it can look very bad, and appearances are important. I especially mentioned how the present was given, i.e. a box with a card saying "You're going to Disney!" and the look at first of stunned belief on the youngest son's face, then the "happy dance" he did.

To quote Spicolli, "AWESOME! TOTALLY AWESOME!" 
 

I took my post down. Sorry for the rant. Little too strong. Just follow the guidelines. 

No apologies needed. Trust me, I've probably heard the rant a time or two.  One reason I didn't send oldest to that troop to look at. However, that is the troop oldest has a bunch of friends from the homeschool group in. 

Yes, the maple sugar frosting and BACON is awesome.

I should have added, my family too has a ban on DD. Something in their ingredients really gets to my hoodlums and make their behavior worse than normal. In-laws are not happy with that as Mom-in-law is a donut fanatic, and used to bring a dozen or two from DD since we have a DD store 3 blocks away.

But KK and a local bakery's donuts, as well as the Duck Donuts above (with their MAPLE AND BACON DONUT ) do not cause behavioral issues.

We've had some transfer in, and some transfer out. Our door is always open. Our concern is when they quit altogether. I've helped Scouts find homes, even if it wasn't the troop I'm with.

When I say I find a troop's practice EBOR, here's the reasons. 

1) The DAC and/or EBOR members have a yearly meeting talking about the entire Life to Eagle process: i.e. projects approval process, paperwork involved, the EBOR, etc. I attended part of one (it was the same night as Roundtable), and it was extremely informative. It does prepare Scouts for the entire process and I want to take my son to the next one as soon as he is able to.

2) From I've been told, these "practice" EBORs are harder, more difficult, and are more on the lines of retests than a true BOR.

3) I've been told that some Scouts who have "failed" their "practice" EBOR are not allowed to have a district EBOR until the unit approves.

Hmm, this is interesting. I've never heard of practice EBORs.

 

Maybe our EBORs (done by District) are easy, or our scouts are just above average, but the BORs not challenging. I spent a little time explaining the EBOR format during my SM Conference with the scout by giving few general examples, but that was more to show him that nothing will be asked he doesn't know.  

 

Practice EBORs? What does your EBORs ask that typical Life scouts don't already know?

 

Barry

Yes, I've never heard of a practice EBOR until I moved to NC. Only reason I can think doing it here locally is that when the council went from troops holding EBORs with a district rep to district level EBORs, the troops kept doing them anyway, calling them practice.

Personally I think it's a waste of time. But that is me.

 

Is there a reason your unit only does one fundraiser a year?  Why not have a car wash or a spaghetti dinner?  Those one off fundraisers could be enough for whatever he may need and then some surplus for anything the troop needs or even a fun trip one weekend.

 

We did the one fundraising event (two fundraisers at the event; 1 involving Scouts, second involving adults) because it was enough to cover 100% of the troops expenses (the adults selling food) and anywhere from 50% - 100% of the Scout's expenses, pending the number of hours we worked, and activities they did. Yes, Individual Scout Accounts are no longer acceptable, but this was back in the day. Only time I had to do extra fundraising was when I did a big trip.

We haven't gotten that far yet. Highest ranking Scout is Star. However, our district advancement committee, which is really the Eagle BOR as they don't really handle all the other stuff involved, does a yearly meeting for all Life Scouts, parents, and leaders interested. Don't know if Star Scouts are invited, but if they are, I'm hoping to have one particular Scout attend if he can finish up one requirement for Communications, and have a BOR this month.

I've had both, and prefer KK over DD. HOWEVER, after experiencing  DUCK DONUTS,  a mid-Atlantic chain, I go for them, hands down. Duck Donuts' Maple and Bacon donuts are "da bomb." And yes, real BACON on the donuts.

Basically MD, DO, PAs, and RNPs are the only ones who are authorized by the BSA to provide physicals. Basically those with a standardized medical degree. Some DOs are into the allopathy field, it goes alot with the DO field of study from what I've seen and heard.

I admit, I've not taken the 1990a WB course or the new WB21C one. Back in my time, there was a specific Boy Scout leader WB, designed for adults who had completed training and had 2 years tenure in Scouting as an adult ( 2 years tenure could be waived on a case by case basis, but it was rare.) There was also a Cub Scout Leader WB designed more for CS trainers. Before my time there was an Exploring Leader version of WB.

Having one size fits all training does a great disservice to the Scouts in my opinion. For one thing, because you have different training requirements, when they are enforced, you have adults with different levels of experience and knowledge. I think it would be hard for a Cub Scout leader from an LDS pack which is not allowed to go camping, to have an understanding of Boy Scout patrol camping. Terminology gets watered down or changed into something that can make it intimidating or confusing for some, i.e. Course Director = SM, Also because all three programs, Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, and Venturing, need to be incorporated, real life, applicable situations are shortened. Instead of an entire week as a Boy Scout, Cub Scout, etc, you only get a few days to get ti together.

Again you needed to have completed basic training and have tenure unless waived. First course I was approached to attend would have waived the tenure requirement because a) I had 20+ months in as an adult and b) I was staffing JLT. That tenure allowed  me to grow and get mentored in my role as an adult. Yes I was "trained" taking the old Scoutmaster Fundamental's course as an 18 year old ASM, but the tenure allowed my fellow adults to mold and counsel me when I reverted back to Scout mode, specifically SPL. I needed experience as an adult.

Which is why i like the tenure rule when it was around.

This may sound cold-hearted, but I would make him work for stuff. I would look for more fundraisers to do, and make sure he works them, and if parents can help, his mom as well. Don't let the lack of equipment stop him, but don't give him anything, let him do things to earn it.

I say that because i was in that situation after my father walked out. My troop did 1 fundraiser a year, and I helped all weekend, and my mom helped as she could too.  When I went to Canada and jamboree, I worked every fundraiser I could. There were some that only the adults could work, and mom worked every single one of them. And I was given lawn mowing jobs by the SM. I really appreciated what I had.

Good luck

I'm quoting the 9th Doctor, "RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"

If SPL hates the troop, that's a major problem. Unless he is trying to change the troop around, he needs to leave. And even then he needs the adults support, otherwise they will do as they are doing.

My troop is not as bad, but we have issues of adults running things when they shouldn't be. My son is not 100% happy and wants to change things. Luckily there is some support for that. But if things do no change, he is transferring.

Regarding AOL and Scout and Tenderfoot Rank. At one time a Cub Scout who earned AOL could automatically get Scout, and his time requirements for Tenderfoot was waived. That was noted in the BSHB of the time, and I was one of those new Scouts who had it applied.

Regarding the Scout Requirements:

#1. Should be easy as it is an AOL requirement.

#2 Tedious but doable

# 3 should be easy, but may vary from troop to troop since some have NSPs and others do not.

#4 These are Cub Scout requirements for the lower ranks

#5 is Whittling Chip, a Bear requirement.

Regarding Tenderfoot requirements:

#1 and #2 are easy if you are a hiking and camping troop. AND Let the PLs sign off; TG if using NSP

#3a-c Again Cub Scout requirements revisited

D Totin Chip. I'm cool with it.

more later

Thanks Jason, I stand corrected.   Many moons ago, we Webs were still considered cubs.  

 If they are in a Pack, they are still Cubs.

Does anybody have an old edition of the Handbook handy? I believe all the MB requirements were in the book. Last night I looked at the oldest one I had handy, the 1959 edition, but they weren't in there, so it would probably have to be at least one edition before that. Or a Requirements book would help. I also looked on the Internet and found a site that had requirements for a few merit badges from 1911, but I don't think that's a reasonable comparison. What would be useful would be to compare the requirements for Canoeing MB from sometime in the 40's through the 60's, to the requirements of today.

 

I have a feeling I know what you will find, and an opinion as to why, but it's probably better to get the actual answer first.

If memory serves, only the 1972 edition of the BSHB has all the requirements. The way national changes requirements, think Cooking which changed twice in 3 years, I think the separate requirement book is a goo idea for the most part. Better would be to not change the requirements as often.

My major negative is the amount of data that the app has access to. It has access to EVERYTHING just about.

I know some of the specialty outdoor organizations came up with their versions of WFA, But the Red Cross got a foundation for their course from a local chapter in the mountains of NC and the BSA. The standard 16 hour WFA was pretty much standardized by the BSA. National was the ones that got the experts together to come up with the course.

Interesting thing to me is this: the bulk of what was covered in my WFA class was stuff I learned in First Aid MB back in the day.