WisconsinMomma

FWIW, my oldest studied Martin Luther King's, I have a Dream speech for Citizenship in the Nation.  I believe MLK is mentioned in the booklet.  

And here are the Aims and Methods -- while they refer to boys, it's not particularly male-centric, and God is only mentioned once:

 

Aims of Scouting -- character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness

 

Methods of Scouting

The methods by which the aims are achieved are listed below in random order to emphasize the equal importance of each.

Ideals

The ideals of Boy Scouting are spelled out in the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, the Scout motto, and the Scout slogan. The Boy Scout measures himself against these ideals and continually tries to improve. The goals are high, and, as he reaches for them, he has some control over what and who he becomes.

Patrols

The patrol method gives Boy Scouts an experience in group living and participating citizenship. It places responsibility on young shoulders and teaches boys how to accept it. The patrol method allows Scouts to interact in small groups where they can easily relate to each other. These small groups determine troop activities through their elected representatives.

Outdoor Programs

Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoor setting that Scouts share responsibilities and learn to live with one another. It is here that the skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with purpose. Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for God's handiwork and humankind's place in it. The outdoors is the laboratory for Boy Scouts to learn ecology and practice conservation of nature's resources.

Advancement

Boy Scouting provides a series of surmountable obstacles and steps in overcoming them through the advancement method. The Boy Scout plans his advancement and progresses at his own pace as he meets each challenge. The Boy Scout is rewarded for each achievement, which helps him gain self-confidence. The steps in the advancement system help a Boy Scout grow in self-reliance and in the ability to help others.

Association with Adults

Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of their troops. In many cases a Scoutmaster who is willing to listen to boys, encourage them, and take a sincere interest in them can make a profound difference in their lives.

Personal Growth

As Boy Scouts plan their activities and progress toward their goals, they experience personal growth. The Good Turn concept is a major part of the personal growth method of Boy Scouting. Boys grow as they participate in community service projects and do Good Turns for others. Probably no device is so successful in developing a basis for personal growth as the daily Good Turn. The religious emblems program also is a large part of the personal growth method. Frequent personal conferences with his Scoutmaster help each Boy Scout to determine his growth toward Scouting's aims.

Leadership Development

The Boy Scout program encourages boys to learn and practice leadership skills. Every Boy Scout has the opportunity to participate in both shared and total leadership situations. Understanding the concepts of leadership helps a boy accept the leadership role of others and guides him toward the citizenship aim of Scouting.

Uniform

The uniform makes the Boy Scout troop visible as a force for good and creates a positive youth image in the community. Boy Scouting is an action program, and wearing the uniform is an action that shows each Boy Scout's commitment to the aims and purposes of Scouting. The uniform gives the Boy Scout identity in a world brotherhood of youth who believe in the same ideals. The uniform is practical attire for Boy Scout activities and provides a way for Boy Scouts to wear the badges that show what they have accomplished.

In Boy Scouts one of the major pillars of the program is adult association. Since it was BOY scouts prior to this summer it’s implied that it was men designed to be the role models and mentors. No offense but I don’t look to women in my troop to be my mentors. None have the outdoor skills or Boy Scout experience. Frankly the questions I have are more male oriented. I wouldn’t go to a lady for these answers any more than I would go to a man for advice that is not male oriented.

 

Hi BackPack,  OK, I am very curious about the questions you have that are so male oriented and where an answer from a woman would be less useful.  Care to share any examples?

 

I once did some research with alumni of a boys' high school and one of the most interesting comments was from a man who said that after he graduated, he didn't believe women were as intelligent as men, and it took him a while to overcome that bias.  Interesting, huh? 

 

 

Here is the mission of the BSA, and I think it's so interesting that it has no reference to males:

 

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

I saw this at Wood Badge first weekend, and I realized right then -- there will be girls.  At our second weekend when we had a workshop on change, someone asked, what will change about the BSA and I said, "girls", and then I scanned the room to see if anyone looked angry (hard to tell).  But you can see from the mission, it is not exclusive.  It says nothing about male bonding or a safe haven from women and girls or anything of the sort. 

 

And, as for women's eligibility to be leaders, it's a done deal!   I hope that in your life you will respect and also be open to input from women that you meet and work with.  Be open to learning from females, they can be insightful, too. 

 

Here's the thing about women leaders -- it's not like women leaders have taken over the program since 1988.  Likewise, I find it unlikely that girls will dominate Scouting in the US any time soon. 

 

I am concerned that a requirement for believing in God will be the next to go.  It is very likely to happen.  I have mixed feelings personally.  I think that people need to respect that there is something in life bigger than themselves, so they don't become self-centered.  At the same time, if the BSA wants to be inclusive, it's the obvious next step. 

Here is another idea if you have a pet shop in your town.  Ask the pet shop if they would allow the Scout to volunteer at the store and help care for one or more of their animals.  A local small pet shop near us takes kids 12 and up as volunteer workers and they can help with the animals and get some light work experience. 

I have a couple of uniforms.

 

1. My standard troop uniform.  Has the standard CSP & Lodge Flap

2. My OA Adviser Uniform.  Has the OA Centennial CSP & Lodge Flap set

3. My new Jamboree uniform - that one has the 2017 Jamboree CSP & Lodge Flap

4. My Venturing uniform - also has the 2017 Jamboree CSP & Lodge Flap

 

Obviously, I had the last two put together for the Jamboree (I was staff), but now, they are just in the rotation.

 

#1 is getting a little worn and will probably be replaced next year.  I will probably maintain the standard look.

 

Maybe, if I go to NOAC in 2020, I'll replace #2

 

Our Scout Shop staff is all for selling multiple uniforms!  LOL.  I am trying to be thrifty. I have one shirt for Cubs, and no shirt yet for Boy Scouts, although I could put together a shirt with a Troop Committee patch.   Two uniforms would be plenty! 

Thanks for the great feedback.  A no-show would be very annoying if that kind of thing happened.

 

I want to encourage Scouters to go to Wood Badge, and maybe more personal encouragement and support would be a better way to do it. 

Ben Hunt was local to my area, and in the historical cabin that honors him (that he built) there is a canoe made from I think, old shipping crates. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Ben_Hunt

 

Here's an article he wrote for Boy's Life about it:

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=gdvlr4TKT4cC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=ben+hunt+canoe&source=bl&ots=86njDgJYvX&sig=yS0gBE8edjpfFTpJ8z2uqqCgglM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZ-5-pgN_XAhXnllQKHeA9BtAQ6AEIRTAI#v=onepage&q=ben%20hunt%20canoe&f=false

Our Cub Scout pack and I believe our Troop also will participate in Wreaths Across America at the VA cemetery in our city.  

 

I am not sure how Scout led our Troop service projects are.  They do the same stuff every year.  

Huh?

 

If a single mom is intent on having a male role model for her son, she has many places to seek out and find a role model.  Or maybe, her son will find his own role models, hopefully positive ones.  A troop with a female SM may have male ASMs or other dads around.   Or she may find another troop or a male role model through sports, school or other activities and relationships. 

 

I haven't seen anything in Scouting about providing male role models as a major purpose of the organization. 

Ugh. I remember being blindsided by that 1988 decision. The BSA had won in the courts (1986, 1987) and it seemed the BSA was going to continue as a male-only program. But fewer men, particularly former scouts, were stepping up  and instead of determining the problem(s) and fixing them, the BSA sought female adult leaders.

 

In retrospect, I will say that having female leaders has not hurt the BSA.  A female Scoutmaster may be good or bad, just as a male might be. 

 

I'll be starting as Cubmaster for our Pack this month and I'm looking forward to it.   My Wood Badge course director is female, she had an incredible, hard working team and the program was thoughtfully planned and well executed.  

Our council has a patch.

 

Then there are other council patches.  I received a special edition one for a gift to FOS, and I just received two from my wood badge course.

 

But, would you wear a unique council patch on your uniform, or stay uniform? 

 

What do you do with your extra patches?  My boys have patch blankets, I keep my extras in the sewing box for now. 

My husband has a similar hat from the Army that he modified and wears occasionally. 

That is a very good point Qwazse - thanks for making it.  I was speaking more that it could be done this way rather than it should be done this way.   

Since everyone appears to ignore the bylaws anyway, a repeal is not urgent.  It's good to know however that there is more than one path to get the job done. 

My parental attitude towards raising the boys is not really connected to Wood Badge in any way.  I think it is a balancing act and will back off on making some of the decisions for the kids... but... I do make some decisions for them, such as -- put that computer game away!  (that's a big one nowadays).  The boys are sort of going along with Scouting and I don't know if they have any particular goals and desires for the program.  While they generally like Scout things when they get there, they don't necessarily desire on their own to go.  Both boys if given totally free choice would likely live on the couch with a remote control and an ipad, and so for us, Scouting is a way to pull them off the couch and put structure to some life skills.  Nothing's perfect.  

 

Most of all I just want the kids doing something other than electronics.  If I ask the kids to pick something and they pick nothing then we might pick things for them once in a while.  

 

Right now oldest is sort of working on family life and both boys are taking swimming lessons. The middle son says he wants to work on swimming and that's his thing, so that is good.  Both will learn valuable things at the upcoming Electricity merit badge class, and then we'll see.  I'd rather have them do something than not do anything at all.  

 

We can ease up on the kids -- and I like the process you suggested for the Citizenship in the Nation merit badge -- that sounds ideal.  I have read some books about becoming an Eagle scout and there is a lot of instruction to parents that they must push and that the big three with the 90 day logs are a huge obstacle.  

 

It is interesting, most Scout parents I have met push their kids.   I agree that as kids get older they will decide whether to go for Eagle or not.  Some examples of pushing, a dad at TKD is always offering parenting advice and has said you must push them and drag them, etc.  Looking at his kid, his kid has turned out fantastic, top of his high school class, a TKD instructor, doing great in college.  A mom on our committee was reviewing a log of all the merit badges that had been earned by the troop over the last 10 years and said about her son -- I made him get all of those.  Our retiring treasurer/former cc told us that his oldest son was pushed to Eagle at 14 and that then he let his second son take a little more time.  At our recent committee meeting, a cooking merit badge counselor complained he hasn't heard from an Eagle candidate who is coming up on 18 and needs to finish. Should be interested in the kids' progress, or que sera sera? 

 

I've met a lot of pushy parents!  I don't plan to be as pushy as those parents, but I may push a little.  It would be very hard to let, especially my middle kid, do nothing.  

 

Today we were out target shooting with a .22.  Youngest loves it.  Oldest liked it and tried it,  middle didn't want anything to do with it, but dad made him shoot one round.  Middle didn't like it but survived the experience.  Was it the wrong choice?   That's really still our decision as parents. 

Good to know.  So that is the IH and COR, together, can change policy?  

 

I think I need to go read the troop committee guidebook...

The IH and COR can change any unit policy without a vote. It might upset some people, but they can do it.

Good to know.  Thank you!   

 

So our chartered organization is a school PTO that seems to be pretty out of the loop, but the PTO co-president has a son in our troop, so she would be the "natural" COR.  Probably need to make that more formal?  We do not have anyone as a COR who attends troop committee meetings at this time. 

 

IH is institutional head, correct?  Would that be the PTO president, or the School principal?  

For me, I went to Roundtable once and it was a lot of people.  I personally did not find a lot of value in Roundtable (as a Cubs person) and I wouldn't fault you if you wanted to skip out of some RT meetings.

 

Wood badge is cool.  If you go, just talk to your course director and let them know you have anxiety issues and I am confident they will help you and accommodate your needs so you can enjoy the course.

 

If you are good with the boys that's the most important thing!  

I love the idea of Patrol accounts.  I would love to propose this to our parent committee and Scoutmaster.  

 

Can you give me some examples of how Patrols have used their funding and how much money the Patrols would get as a starting balance?  

I think that with my sons' Troop, it's going to be a journey of baby steps to help the Troop become more boy oriented and less adult controlled.

 

On the way up to our Thanksgiving spot, I chatted with my husband (an ASM) about the idea of throwing away the bylaws.  His feedback was that -- no one follows the bylaws anyway so don't rock the boat repealing them.  This may be a good suggestion, especially since the bylaws' amendment process is a 2/3 vote at 2 consecutive meetings.  I have been attending parent meetings for a year, but I'm still "new".  Is this the best use of time? 

 

So I asked my husband what he thought of proposing that the Scouts choose their own summer camp destination this year.  He feels that suggestion is more meaningful.  The troop has a deposit with the regular camp but that could possibly be refunded.  The troop committee is imo, very adult run in how they plan outings.  I think that if we can encourage the Scoutmaster to take Scout input (and the committee to back off), that would be a big and meaningful step.  So I will pursue that.  Maybe I will ask the Scoutmaster to have coffee? 

 

My boys like their Troop and it is our local troop.  Another troop in the area is huge, giant, and unappealing because of its size and the other troop that is very nearby does not have a strong outdoor program. 

 

Maybe one bite at a time, the elephant of adult control can get eaten and out of the way. 

The reason I am asking is that our fundraisers are generating less money than they used to.  I am wondering if the Troop should charge families more in fees to cover their costs. 

 

Then again, I could just do the meeting minutes and not worry about it.   Not my problem?  

 

So the issue is described as -- parents aren't interested in doing fundraisers.  And the natural solution is -- then families pay more "dues".   Do your fundraisers have buyouts? 

OK, Stosh so give me more details on how this works.   

 

Let's say that in the year, the expenses are something like $300 for summer camp,  $30 for BSA enrollment, $20 for supplies like patches and pins and Eagle gifts, etc. and $50 for other outings.

 

Does the parent pay $50 to the troop for the supplies and BSA enrollment? 

 

Our Troop has scout accounts but honestly I am not up to speed on how those work out.  We usually pay as we go for our kids activities.  So for example, they have a camping weekend that's $25 a kid, and we'll write a check for $50 for our two kids. 

Are there any nature centers in your area that have animals on exhibit that do not have admission fees?  Or, could you ask a zoo or nature center for special permission for the Scout to visit for his badge? 

 

When my oldest did this badge this summer, we had an interesting time -- first, he had one of these little african frogs that we've had forever as a pet -- they live a long time.  They're tiny and cheap and easy to maintain.  That's what he did his log with. 

 

Then, I came across a painted turtle that was crossing the road, just as he was starting his badge work. We grabbed it, brought it home, and got a 55 gallon aquarium for it from Craigslist.  (this was somewhat expensive.  we got it sand and rocks and a heat lamp.)  We observed it for about two weeks and then one of the boys took it out to our front ditch for it to have an outing, and after a few minutes unattended, it had made a great escape.  It was very fun observing this turtle, but it was good that the turtle went back to the wild. 

 

You could also borrow a friend's pet if you know someone who would be agreeable. 

Our CO is an elementary school PTO that is very hands off, and interesting, our district commissioner is the person who is listed as Scoutmaster on our 7 page Troop bylaws.  

 

Guess I'll focus on my jobs -- being a good mom, and making great committee meeting minutes.  Honestly I don't want to make things messy, but it would be wonderful for the boys to have more opportunities to make decisions for themselves.  What can I do to help make things better in the Troop? 

Questions:

 

Does your Troop have annual dues, what do your dues cover, who (adults or youth) determines the dues amount and handles collection? 

 

What is the relationship between dues and fundraisers in your Troop, and do you have any great ideas for fundraisers?  Who decides which fundraisers your Troop participates in, adults or Scouts? 

 

Thanks!

 

Right, would it be fair to say that a BSA Troop operates per BSA policies?  Is there a piece of literature that would be referred to?

 

I am not sure if I should attempt a bylaws repeal with the parent committee, or a "repeal and replace" with something extremely simplified. 

 

Or, just go as is, assuming no one reads or really follows the bylaws anyway?