WisconsinMomma

13 hours ago, David CO said:

I am willing to listen to people who feel that we need a different policy on physical contact. I might even encourage the discussion. I like discussion.

That said, I think you are going to far when you say that it is wrong. 

 

My objection is to this hanging Bobcats upside down for pinning their patch nonsense.  I understand it was done long ago, but I'm glad it's gone.  It was interesting that someone mentioned it, I had never heard of it before.   Given that the BSA has discouraged the practice and it hasn't been around for more than 20 years, it's not really a problem.  As far as being a new person to Scouting, yes, it's not the 1990's anymore.   That's where I was going with the touching -- the holding kids upside down -- that's no good.   Don't approve, BSA got it right. 

Focus on your den.  I hope you have a good den leader.  Enjoy that group and just leave the Pack alone.  

First, here is a discussion about it --- very old, from 1997 -- that covers a lot of the topic:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.scouting.usa/DXEr2AotQiw

Second, look at the news right now and inappropriate touching.  Society has changed since the 1950's.    There is to reason to physically manhandle a kid at a Pack meeting and it's wrong. 

Not everything about the good old days is good. 

How about those who prefer leaders keep their hands off the kids?  Given the number of kids with sensory issues, and the number of kids who aren't participating with two parents, etc.   I don't see any value in the custom. 

Stosh, what decade was that? 

I found an article on Bobwhite Blather:
https://bobwhiteblather.com/stop-flipping-them/

I'm glad that packs aren't doing it anymore.  

6 hours ago, Eagledad said:

holding a scout up-side-down during an awards ceremony was a form of hazing.

Holding a scout upside down during an awards ceremony????

17 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

and yet without that "hazing", they wouldn't have learned, via a real world situation, conflict resolution.  And now, as boys is when they should be learning that, not as men when nuclear war is potentially on the table.  

 There are plenty of opportunities in life to learn and practice conflict resolution.  It's not like this was the only moment in time when they'll ever have the chance.  

Did you get it worked out?

I imagine that even if a pet store does not need volunteers,they are public and you can visit their reptile section anytime...   

They look nice.  This is small stuff. 

I always feel bad for the kids.  Sounds like the decision to remove the family is already made, but if you want to or can offer to have the boy continue if the mother agrees to limit her participation, then you may have a win.  I wonder if the mom has some mental health concerns, but that is not anything that you can do anything about.  If you cannot manage the mom situation then it sounds like you are set on the path to removal.  If you can work with the mom to have her just focus on her son and getting him to and from the meetings, and attending his den meetings, then that would be a nice result.  If you need something nice to say to mom, give her encouragement that her son is doing well and is liked in Scouts and that you hate to see him have to leave.   But you need to also have some boundaries. 

As far as complaining, I once was dealing with a heckler in a job I was in.  Someone told me that some people are just like that, that's what they do.  The issue regarding communicating about the money is a concern that needs to be addressed.

Best wishes with it.   Good luck!

Good information.  Our cub Pack is usually camping the day of Jamboree on the Air and I think the Troop camped the same weekend this year.  If setting up a ham radio is easy, then it seems like it would be a cool thing to get into.   I don't know any ham radio operators, but I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to find someone.

14 hours ago, Stosh said:

Okay, we have added siblings, added parents, added... added.... added and finally a ton of added rules to handle all the added "stuff".

Is it possible to involve parents and families on an occasional basis?  I don't get the impression that parents and siblings want to do every activity and trip, but maybe show up once in a while.  At Troop meetings, we have a group of moms and younger siblings who hang out down the hall while the boys meet in the gym.  That's not interfering.   My husband is an ASM and goes to summer camp and says with the same breath that he does nothing and that what he does is important.   This year I almost went to camp to do nothing too but the schedule did not work out.  I don't see the big problem if I go to a thing once in a while.  In fact, I am thinking of going to and sitting in on a PLC meeting, just to be a fly on the wall.  I am curious how much the Troop adults participate vs the boys and I'd like to see it in action.

OK, I need to clarify because Tampa Turtle mentioned quality control in regards to an upcoming AT hike and how to (discern? manage? control? decide?)  who should go on an advanced hiking trip, and whether any parents or younger scouts should be allowed to join.

I also made note of the phrase, "the best scouts" as in, the best scouts might be leaving (paraphrasing there). I don't know if that kind of thinking works IRL or not, but it sounds like the more skilled and older scouts are more... needed in the troop?

Anyway, that's the context, TT, please chime in to clarify if needed, thanks!

Here's a follow up question --- what is quality control in Scouting supposed to look like?  Is there supposed to be quality control?   We have adult leader training and the handbooks and the publications -- is it supposed to go beyond that and if so, what does it mean and look like in action?   (This may be straying off topic, or not!)

When people have more enthusiasm than experience,  I can understand it's frustrating.  I am high enthusiasm, low to moderate experience with the BSA.  There's a lot to learn.  That said, enthusiasm for the program and for the outdoors is a good thing if it can be guided appropriately.  I don't doubt that the AT is difficult hiking.   My Wood Badge staffer who was with our patrol wants to hike the AT but he came home from his trip with an achilles injury, and he's a very experience hiker.   In your troop's parents shoes, I would be comfortable with an explanation that training and conditioning is essential for an AT hike and that the hike difficulty is more for the older boys, as long as it doesn't come across as a "you suck" or "you don't know jack" or "this is ridiculous, how dare you even ask"  message.  Positive attitude is everything.  If the younger boys want to build up their hiking exposure, miles and experience then local hikes would be wonderful and inviting interested parents along is agreeable, I think.  I can see the point of view and benefit of getting more people outdoors, but it doesn't have to be crashing the big trip.  
Your Scoutmaster has a lot to consider,  best wishes.  I hope it turns out well for the Scouts. 

Here's another idea, just make some shorter hikes that are prerequistes to the big hike for new hikers, so -- in order to sign up for the AT,  parents and Scouts at whatever age or level need to complete the following pre-AT hike events,  at whatever training mileages are appropriate for beginners.  The hiking merit badge has hike length intervals that might be perfect for the AT pre-training.  

I think you can work it out -- don't lose your positive attitude! 

ETA:  As for differences between moms and dads, of course there are differences.  It seems my husband goes along with and accepts -- "this is the way we do it" at face value, whereas I do not.  I like to ask -- "why do you do it this way?"  I like to know more about why things are the way they are.   This has led to some disagreements in my home because my husband is frustrated that I want to know more.   We work it out though, but he is appreciating that I don't want to feel like an outsider to my sons' BSA experience and I am learning to trust that the Troop runs OK and I don't need to over-worry it. 

Here's while I'll pitch in with individual perspective.

1) You have older boys who want to go on a big AT hike.  Cool!

2)  You have parents of younger boys who want to go on an easier AT hike.  Cool!

This doesn't sound too difficult.  The older scouts can plan their big hike and with the Scoutmaster, decide their expectations for the trip.  If the end up saying something like, we're doing XXX miles and this hike is designed for very experienced hikers, then that would be a great way to position the event.

For the parents of younger scouts who want to do an easier AT hike at a later time,  I think that's a great idea.  If the younger scouts want to go on an "intro to hiking" hike and agree with the general idea, great!  Perhaps there are some opportunities for the older scouts to mentor the younger scouts and the whole troop can be excited about their respective trips.  Maybe some of the older scouts will want to serve as leaders on the younger scouts trip.

So what's the big problem?  If the Scoutmaster needs to set boundaries and say -- this advanced hike is not appropriate for Tenderfoot Joe and his parents, or Second Class Bob and his parents, then that's totally acceptable and reasonable, isn't it?  

Here's the thing.  A Scout is part of a family and the Troop should try to maintain a positive relationship with parents.  Having parents along should be generally OK and if they need coaching to let the boys be responsible, then that's a process that needs to be worked through.  It takes time for people to get into the groove of how Boy Scouts works and that learning curve is part of the game. 

I was reading someone's comments on another site yesterday and the person seeks to be a dog walker and start a dog walking business.  She loves dogs.  But, dog walking is only half about the dogs -- it's the humans who need to be pleased.  Boy Scouting is not that different, a Troop needs to work with the boys but also maintain good relationships with the families, and that will require patience, understanding and some degree of customer service skills.

Oh, I agree the list is very limiting, but also, I think generally the spirit of these requirements is that Scouts build a variety of experiences.   Someone should request / recommend an update of this badge, but that doesn't help you right now, Hawkin.  

Do you have any offbeat places in your home that need curtains, like maybe a garage window or a basement window?  Think about every room in your house.   Otherwise, I think it's totally fair to ask your counselor if you can repeat and see what s/he says.   

Good luck! 

23 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMHO disappointed. I think he expected the world to a be a better place because of Scouting.

I think the world is a better place because of Scouting, and the world would be noticeably worse off without it. 

We charge the Scouts and Adults the usual yearly registration fee. We have scholarships available for yearly registration and summer camp for boys who need assistance.The COR picks up any other fees.

 

Fundraising: Annual Chili Supper- big hit! We hold the event every early November.  The Farm King Corporation gives us a large yearly donation. The Scouts get a 30% commission on the Chili Supper ticket sales for their camp and scouting-related expenses.

The chili supper sounds like a lot of fun!

I have my sons' backs, of course.  Right now there are no girls in their program.  We will see how it goes, but if girls join the program we'll take it one day at a time.  FWIW, my oldest loves girls and his friends are girls more than boys.  He's preferred the company of girls since kindergarten.  I wonder -- for his First Class requirement -- could he invite a girl to a meeting?  But no, it's not the right thing to do yet. 

Both my boys have worked with female merit badge counselors and they were both great.  Their camping experiences are right now, all with guys, so I'm not going to cross the bridge about worrying about girls until they start showing up.   

What my boys will get out of the program is not about gender. 

BackPack, I don't remember where you are in your Scouting experience, are you over 18 and done, or still in the BSA youth program? 

Did you have any female merit badge counselors?  Just curious about how it worked out for you.

Of course there are some things that are very personal and private and there are some topics that I would share with only a select few, and I may prefer a same-gender person to talk with.  That's normal.

But, say the Personal Fitness merit badge -- or any merit badge -- could be counseled by a male or female.  For example, at the fitness center where I work, there are female personal trainers that instruct mixed-gender classes, and they get male and female customers.  An Eagle coach could be male or female as well.  There is not a lot of content that requires a male role model. 

Having a different perspective is not disrespectful.  I am a mother of three boys who will be in the program over next 10 years and I care about them very much.   I disagree with the assumption that adding females makes the program mediocre.

 I am making the case for girls in Scouting (I have neutral feelings toward it and will go with the changes as they happen). You are entitled to sharing your point of view, but not entitled to shutting down mine. 

As for working with youth, I have some experience too!  We all have different things to bring to the table.

Here's a link to an interesting article about B-P:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jul/30/bensummerskill.theobserver

'We scrambled down the bank where we were sitting... and he came towards us demanding: 'What the dickens are you doing here?'

'Our `patrol leader' said: 'We want to do the same thing as the boys. We want to be girl scouts.' Baden-Powell said: 'That's impossible, this is only for the boys.'

'We thought he was going to send us away but in the end he said: 'I'll think about it.' We went into the arena when it began to rain and then joined the march-past. We were put at the back with some other girls.

'We were laughed at, we were whistled at, there were catcalls, but we didn't mind. We were there and we were part of the show and when the speeches were over and the telegram from the King was read we raised our hats and our poles and cheered the King and we did the same and cheered Baden-Powell.'

Dues are $12 per year. I prefer the boys to pay out of money they earn, but a check from the parents is okay. We use it to defray the cost of rank badges, merit badges, POR patches.

 

If i had my way, I would have the SPL collect $1 cash from each Scout the first meeting of the month. "A Scout is thrifty and pays his own way."

How do you cover chartering?  Is that extra?  What kind of fundraisers does your Troop do?