BrentAllen

scoutingagain writes, "Iraq war vets will have strong credibility with respect to defense and security issues, especially running against Republican incumbents that have spent the last 4 years in a comfy Washington office, or who have never served. Although I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the depth to which this party will sink to given the way they have treated veterans such as McCain, Murtha and Cleland." Cleland was voted out of office because of his political positions, which are far left. He was not treated unfairly, unless you consider using his voting record against him as off limits. I guess some think that even though the huge majority of Georgians disagreed with Cleland's positions and voting record, we should have voted for him because he is a disabled vet. Sorry, but that dog won't hunt here in Georgia. I don't know the rest of y'all, but considering the fact that Cleland was not wounded in battle, it is pretty hard for me to consider him a "war hero," as he is often described. Yes, he lost both legs and an arm, but it wasn't on the battlefield. An engineer accidentally dropping a grenade at his feet is not the same as a combat soldier injured while fighting the enemy - at least not to me.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

Wow. I don't know whether I'm glad or sad to see that jkh not only hates the BSA, but he also hates the USA. I think a move to Canada would suit him well. He asks, "Are a few "terrorists" a graver threat than Fascist Germany and militaristic Japan were? Are they a larger threat than the Soviet Union was - a nation armed with hundreds, thousands of nuclear warheads with the means to deliver them?" The answer.... Yes!!! Too bad you can't see that?!?! The German, Japanese and Soviet armies wore uniforms. You knew who they were, and where they were. The terrorists are right here in our backyard, living among us, and we have no idea who they are, or even how many there are. The do not wear uniforms; they have chosen their field of battle - our country, our cities. If you think all the terrorists went up in flames on 9/11, you are kidding yourself. A terrorist with a suitcase nuke or dirty bomb, detonated in a major city in the US, will do more damage to this country than Japan did at Pearl Harbor. It will severly cripple our economy and cause tremendous panic. And who will be the first crying about how our government should have been able to stop the attack? Those same people who were crying about the Patriot Act, those like jkh.

The date stamper on this page is working again, which means posts written today and tomorrow will be inserted into the existing threads which were one day off - in a word, a mess. This should straighten out on Saturday. You can still posts to old threads, you just have to look in the time-stamped order, instead of last on the thread. They are just going to be jumbled.

I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I am GLAD the FBI found out that "...people in his class (with Arab sounding names) were sending emails back and forth about terrorist groups (like Hamas and Hizbullah)." If the FBI missed those emails, then how are they ever going to catch the real bad guys?!?! If this professor didn't expect that kind of attention, I don't think he should be teaching at the college level. Duhhh! The bottom line is right now, our intelligence is in pretty bad shape. Whether that is due to all the cuts under Clinton or for whatever reason, we don't know who the bad guys are, nor where they are located. Given that fact, how do any of you propose we protect ourselves from terrorists? If we can't listen in on phone calls and check emails, how does the NSA, CIA or FBI locate and stop the terrorists? What do you suggest? Would y'all consider the government checking the rolls of students taking flying lessons as an invasion of privacy? SR540Beaver wants to know when the war on terror is going to end. I doubt it will end in our lifetimes. We didn't start this war, it came to us. As long as militant Muslims see the west as a bunch of infidels, and want to destroy us, we will be on the defensive. Now, we could surrender - give us support for Israel, pull all our troops out of the Mid-East. I'm curious what you think would happen then.

Let's take another look at our neighbors to the north, where they opened the doors to gays and girls. The following numbers list the year, youth, adults 1996 - 172,680....58,362 2000 - 142,200....46,112 2002 - 120,000....40,000 2003 - 103,000....30,000 2004 - 94,230.....28,440 Present - 84,000...25,000 Now that looks like a plan for growth! (If you are looking for negative growth). All in favor of following Scouts Canada, please say Aye!(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

That site blames a drop in BSA membership on the gay issue. They claim the BSA policy is out of touch with mainstream America. I would like to hear their explanation of the following: "(AP) In a resounding, coast-to-coast rejection of same-sex marriage, voters in 11 states approved constitutional amendments Tuesday limiting marriage to one man and one woman. The amendments won, often by huge margins, in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Ohio, Utah and Oregon the one state where gay-rights activists hoped to prevail. The bans won by a 3-to-1 margin in Kentucky and Georgia, 3-to-2 in Ohio, and 6-to-1 in Mississippi. "'This issue does not deeply divide America,' said conservative activist Gary Bauer. 'The country overwhelmingly rejects same-sex marriage, and our hope is that both politicians and activist judges will read these results and take them to heart.'" Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see the numbers down last year. My guess is the Councils were checking their numbers much more closely after all the news on ghost units. Whether from clerical errors, fraud, or who knows what, if there were any mystery units carried on the books, they have most likely been removed. I am still amazed at how much effort these people put in to change the policies of an organization that, as they see it, is so full of fraud, incompetence and corruption, so that they can join. One would think they wouldn't want to have anything to do with the BSA. Just amazing....

I don't use an alias for one main reason - I don't post anything here that I wouldn't say in person. I've been accused of ranting, but what I've stated in those posts, I would say directly to the person, face to face. As for respect, it is hard for me to respect those who want to change the program to allow atheists and gays. Some of us feel these requirements - straight, believe in God - are two of the backbones of the program. To us, they are essential. Getting rid of them would change the whole dynamics, negatively. I get lectured by some for being condescending. Comments like "when the BSA comes into the 21st Century and allows gays and atheists..." is very condesceding, implying the rest of us are neanderthals. The BSA has gone to court on these issues, all the way to the Supreme Court. Does anyone really think they are going to change their mind now? In nearly every state where a ban on gay marriage has been offered, the huge majorities have been in favor of the ban, even in Oregon. So why do some here think the BSA is "out of touch with mainstream America" because they won't allow gays? The BSA is facing enough challenges and attackes from those outside the program - we don't need them from within. If you want my respect, then don't try to gut the program of essential elements. If you don't like the program as it is, then start your own secular program. Be the secular B-P of the 21st Century. If there is so much demand for a secular program, it should be a huge hit! The numbers should grow like kudzu! Set up the structure without the evil National HQ, and all those high-salaried executives! Instead of trying to destroy my program, start your own! Why is this so hard to grasp?

Hey, look at the timeline of my last post - here it is Friday morning, 3/10, and the message shows I posted it tomorrow. Hey Merlyn, how do you explain that? I'm doing time travel! Now if I can only find the results of the Saturday lottery drawing and buy those tickets today...

I'm always amazed at how many atheists and non-Judeo-Christians read the Bible and quote verses. It must be very satisfying to them to read all those stories, and know that they are far too smart to believe any of it. To know they can't be fooled into believing there is a God. They must feel like the smartest people on the planet! What a shame that they can't carry such intelligence beyond their life, that they will only turn into worm food once they die. I would be very depressed if I thought that my 70 years or so on this planet was it, that there was nothing beyond. I can't imagine my children as anything other than gifts from God. I guess some see their kids as just a product of biology, but I never will be able to do that. In the end, if I'm wrong about all this, then I'm just dead - end of story. If the atheists are wrong, then eternity is a mighty long time.

Gern, God may have told them to do that. You are right, we will never know. Did God give them a "get out of jail free" card? No? Maybe God meant for them to be punished for the act. Did God tell the judge or the jury to let them go free? No? Then I guess that wasn't God's intentions. We can spin this around as much as we like. The bottom line is we will never fully understand God's work.

Dan, I guess you will never get it - I did NOT compare Kudu to a list of killers. In fact, I said the opposite. I said, for the nth time, that neither comparison was valid. Sorry you do not appreciate my biting humor. That is what it is. Is it possible for me to make something more easily understood by simply typing it slower? Will it change the speed at which one reads the message? No - that is humor. And after all that, you still continue to argue that I made an unkind comparison of Kudu to killers. I dunno - maybe it is just my Southern drawl that is causing the confusion (more humor). Kudu has some serious problems with the BSA, including the trademark on Scouting and problems with the religious awards and other issues. My guess is he has made those feelings known at the Council level, and may be known as a troublemaker (he has signed his name to posts here, so his real identity is known). I have asked twice about this, in this thread, with no response. I find it hard to believe the Council would label him a troublemaker simply because of the dog issue. I don't know of any leader who would have reacted differently. I think there is more to the story that meets the eye.

Dan, I will try to explain this again, and this time I will type s l o w e r. I didn't think Trev's list was a valid comparison, so I made up an absurd list - and said they were equally pertinent - meaning neither one was pertinent. Get it? My list of bad guys was just as valid as his - equally pertinent/neither is pertinent. Now, please explain to me how being a voluntary member of an organization is the same as having a skin color or ethnicity. Rosa Parks and Jackie Robinson did not have a choice in the matter. Comparing Kudu's complaints about BSA policy, in an organization he voluntarily joined, to the protests against racism is absurd. He always has the choice of leaving. Parks and Robinson did not have a choice of not being black.

As I said - equally pertinent. I don't think either list or group is a valid comparison to a Scouter being a troublemaker with his District or Council. So, any other incidents?

Trev, Here's an equally pertinent list of troublemakers: Charles Manson The Columbine duo Jeffrey Dahmer Now, which of the two groups would mind, or would enjoy, being compared to a Scouter being a troublemaker because he doesn't like the way the BSA runs Scouting?

You labeled yourself a "troublemaker". Is this the first time this has happened? Would the SE or the Council leadership consider you a "troublemaker" for any other incidents? Once you "make your bed" as a "troublemaker" you have to deal with the results of that - "sleep in that bed." It is the opposite of being "a proven loyal and obedient 'team player,'."

Sounds like someone is not too happy about being forced to sleep in the bed they made.

I've been covered up between work and Scouting (imagine that!) and didn't realize Lisabob had spun this thread off. We had BR (not sure if I can mention his name, even though it is posted all over the BSA Antarctic page, so I'll just call him BR) as the guest speaker at our District Banquet (Hightower Trail, AAC). http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-900/journals/brange/index.html BR did a great job describing his experience, along with some very cool photos. The photos are all digital, and he said he could get about 5 or 6 shots out of his batteries before he had to put them inside his coat to warm them back up. He also gave an interesting description about breathing the -25 F. air in through your nose, and sneezing ice crystals. Yuck! I could type pages with the information he gave us in a 10 - 15 minute presentation - it was fascinating! And BR has great presentation skills, especially for a college student. We haven't had our B&G yet, so we are trying to get him to be our guest speaker - the kids will eat it up! And what better way to show the possiblities of Scouting! He explained how his Scouting skills really helped on this expedition. BR's expedition ran 8 months - 6 months on the ice and 2 months on a research ship. I'm not sure if they are all that long. A fraternity brother (Beta Theta Pi, Georgia Tech) of mine was the 1978 Antarctic Scout (also from Atlanta). http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-900/journals/brange/history/leinmiller.html It turns out my wife's family has a history of Antarctic exploration. She is named after her great-grandmother, Ingrid Christensen (wife of Lars Christensen) who was the first woman to fly over the South Pole. I'm not really a cold-weather person, so I don't know if I could handle the weather down there. We have been to Norway, and crossed the Arctic Circle and visited the North Cape - in the summer. Luckily, they were having their worst heat wave in 50 years! I could handle that.

p-s, I'm sure to someone like you, who is interested in seeing the BSA fail, my postings of good news from Atlanta does seem like ranting. Sorry to ruin your day, but here is more good news. We had our District banquet last night. The new SE for the AAC joined us for the evening. He pointed out that with the FOS donations received at a B&G earlier that day, we have already met and exceeded our FOS goal. Understand we still have several units which have not held their FOS fundraiser, including my Pack, which is probably the second largest in the District. Add in our District Golden Eagle breakfast which raised over $114,000, and we have far exceeded our goal of $130,000 by 135%. He also mentioned that even though we had 6 crews attend Philmont, a large group attend the National Jamboree, other units attending NT and SB, and other units attending summer camp out of council, we still set a record for the number of Scouts attending our 2 Council camps, Bert Adams and Woodruff. Our guest speaker last night was the 2003-04 BSA Antarctic Scout, who is from the AAC. Every 2 years, the BSA chooses 1 Eagle Scout from across the country between the ages of 18 and 21 to attend an 8 month expedition to the South Pole, all expenses paid. While there he helped a number of world-renown scientists conduct their experiments. This Eagle Scout is also a Junior at Georgia Tech. It was a fascinating presentation! What a great night for Scouting! Yeah, I love this ranting stuff!(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

Kahuna, In my copy of Scouting for Boys, Elleke Boehmer discusses homosexuality as a buried discourse in the book, in her introduction. She footnotes Jeal's book on this subject, stating, "...and Tim Jeal's psychosexual reconsideration to the extent of becoming virtually a cliche' of the history of Scouting." Check out the reader reviews on Amazon. A Steven Crumbaugh (Chicago, IL USA), while giving the book 4 stars, writes "The thing that put me off was Jeal's amateur psycho-analysis of the inner "Stephe". This permeates the book and distracts from the narrative. Perhaps in reaction to the slanderous assertions of other biographers, Jeal asserts that BP was a repressed homosexual. I found most of his arguments unpersuasive and reject this suggestion. He also implied that many Guide leaders were lesbians. Since his evidence of this was sketchy at best, I found it distracting." It appears I am not the only one with this opinion.

fish, I believe Kudu actually resides in Texas. Read enough of his opinions and you will find he believes the Tim Jeal book on B-P is the definitive work. Most Scouters I know have little respect for the book, partly because of Jeal's assertion that B-P was a homosexual. From my viewpoint, Kudu approaches B-P history as did Jeal - trying to dig up dirt and focus on the negative, in order to be "enlightened." They see the rest of us as simpletons who only believe the "myths" of his legend. I personally get a real kick out of how B-P was convinced by the USA and others to lie for them. Kudu mentions B-P reinventing history here, "So B-P was forced under oath to invent a backstory for Scouting to aid the BSA against Seton and the American branch of the British Boy Scouts before he lost control of Scouting as a world-movement..." I also enjoy the lie B-P has apparently told about the Wood Badge beads. Kudu writes that B-P took the beads off a dead little girl and that they did not belong to Denizulu. Yet, we see actual photos of Denizulu wearing the beads. Denizulu's ancestors appear to think they were his beads, but Kudu knows they weren't. I'm waiting for Kudu's book, The Baden-Powell Code. I just wonder if he will label it a novel, as did Dan Brown

It sure is nice knowing us poor ol' Southern boys got a nice Yankee lookin' out for us! It's a shame the guy ain't got a clue as to what he is talkin' about. Now I know why no one in jkh's own District or Council will give him the time of day. That new Council office was built with local funds. Those local funds came from business leaders here in Atlanta - from companies like Coca-Cola, Cingular, Chick-fil-A, Georgia Power, etc... Do you really think they would donate money if the project was not going to be managed wisely, and if the contractor donating services was going to rip them off??? Again, it is funny how some no-name 1000 miles away knows more than any of us here in Atlanta. Maybe you aren't aware of the good things this Council does, but others are. Have you heard of Camp Woodruff? It is named after the Woodruffs of Coca-Cola fame. They donated $1 million for the camp. I suppose you think they are a bunch of idiots for doing so? For trusting the leadership in the Council?? This Council is not playing around with chump change. Yes, David Larkin signed off on the numbers. The DD's and DE's signed off and said those units and those Scouts existed. Larkin trusted those DD's and DE's - who were wearing the Scout uniform - to tell the truth. He did not force nor ask them to make up the numbers. He is only guilty of setting up a system to reward those who were successful in bring boys into Scouting. What a crime. Yes, the DD's and DE's were guilty. They created this problem. If they had been truthful, this never would have happened. I do not expect the SE to go around and know of every unit and every Scout in an 18 District Area, covering 13 metro counties in Atlanta. If you do, then you have no idea what an SE is supposed to be doing. Come on, jkh - please dazzle us with more of your posting of internet rumors - especially the really old ones that have been around for half a year or more.

Just about everthing that jkh has posted has come straight from The Daily Kos web blog. In case you aren't familiar with the site, it is an extreme left wing blog site out of Berkley, CA. The creator lists three heros, one of which is Cesar Chavez. It is safe to say those who visit and participate in that site are NOT particularly interested in seeing the BSA survive. They are more likely interested in the opposite. Visit this particular page and see if anything looks similar to the information jkh has posted. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/1/7/20165/02664 I don't think I could go so far as to call it plagarism, but it very similar. Either jkh is the same person as "xrepub" or he has copied him. I conclude that jkh is not here trying to improve the BSA or help the program. He is here spreading rumors and drivel from the far left in an effort to damage the BSA. Nothing more, nothing less. The rest of y'all can engage jkh in conversation if you wish. I see him for who he is, and I have no time for such foolishness. I am much more interested in dealing with other sincere volunteers and professionals who want to see the BSA be the best program our boys can participate in.

P-S, If you want to believe that someone in NY knows more about the Atlanta Area Council than I do, that is your business. As I have mentioned before, I am a Cubmaster, District Activities Chair for the Hightower Trail District and was Cub Scout Chair for the Council's Scouters Academy. That is to say, I take a lot of interest in what is happening at the District and Council levels. I also happen to know the SM for the unit that runs the boyscoutsfortruth.com web page. So you choose who you want to believe - me (who doesn't have the need to hide behind some silly alias) or some unnamed individual 1000 miles away. The previous SE, David Larkin, was guilty of one thing - being too aggressive with wanting to grow the program. He loved Scouting so much he wanted it spread far and wide in the AAC. How terrible! Unfortunately, he trusted those who worked as DD's and DE's. There was pressure to grow the program, as there is in just about any business, and some took the fraudulent path to generate their numbers. This all came to light when the boyscoutsfortruth.com crowd went to David Larkin to ask about fundraising and money. When Larkin found the numbers he was signing off on were inflated, he took responsibility and resigned. Other details. I saw the SM for the boyscoutsfortruth.com at the Scout Shop about 2 months ago. He said everything is fine with them now. The new SE and a bunch of staff had lunch with the Rainbow/PUSH director who had made all the complaints in the press. They are happy with the efforts being made to address their concerns. FOS this year will probably break all previous records. In our District alone, we had the President of Chick-Fil-A speak at a breakfast for around 100 - 125 individuals that raised approx. $115,000 that morning. Other prominent business leaders were present, and have shown their support for the BSA and the AAC. I'm sure jkh would think all these business leaders and the volunteers are just being duped, but I find that impossible to believe. So believe what you want to about Scouting in Atlanta. It makes no difference to me. I just want to point out the truth. If you want to find out more about jkh, check out my next post.

jkh, First, I don't believe a word of your posts to be true. If there is any truth there, it is so twisted and biased that it is not recognizable. We all know your type - nothing is ever a good idea unless you agree with it. No plan is ever any good unless it is your plan. All you can do is complain, and never lend a hand to be a part of a team that is making things happen for the Scouts. You mention a "group in Atlanta" but I have never heard a single word about this. You trash the SE in your council about property sales, but all the news I can find on the web is positive. If you were a mover and shaker in your District and Council, you would have some clout with the Council. If your unit was a big contributor to FOS, you would have some leverage to use to get the answers to your questions from the Council. Instead, as a constant complainer and rock-thrower, you are stuck on the outside looking in, a bench warmer at the far end, gathering splinters. If you want me to believe any of your gibberish, please post specifics, or PM them to me. I grow tired of your broad accusations with nothing to back them up.

Funny - L found NEGA's 2004 990 with just a few key strokes - none filed since when, you ask?? Funny - I live here in Georgia, and I'm a pretty active Scouter, but I haven't heard any of this terrible news. I know Scouters in both those Councils and they have never mentioned any of this! We've had several units go up to Scoutland Camp on Lake Lanier in the Northeast Georgia Council. They run a great Adventure Camp during the summer. Funny how they are able to do that while committing fraud and ripping everyone off. Funny how you are way up in NY but you know more about the Councils in my state than I do. Funny how the FOS campaing here in the Atlanta Area Council is breaking records in many Districts. Funny...