BrentAllen

SaintCad, What are you going to change - the 1st Amendment? As the Supreme Court has confirmed, the BSA is not doing anything "wrong." So unless you wish to change the 1st Amendment, you can either follow your convictions and leave, or decide the BSA program, even in its terrible state (according to you), is more valuable than your convictions on this issue. Why should the BSA change the policy just because you think it is wrong? "Didn't the policy change once to exclude homosexuals when the LDS/Catholic Church demanded that BSA national policy reflect THEIR beliefs?" No - the position was clarified as homosexuals became more vocal and political. SaintCad - from some of your earlier posts: "I never demeaned, ridiculed, or berated the policy." Sounds like you are doing so now. "I don't have an agenda, I merely want to know the reasoning behind this BSA policy." Sounds to me live you have an agenda now - changing the policy - no?

Dan, Which Constitutional rights of the homosexuals are the BSA denying? The policy is good enough for me, because it is the policy of the BSA, and I choose to join this group - free association. If I did not agree with the policy, I would not join. Those are my ethics and morals. The policy is not going to change, so I'm not sure why we are going through this verbal excercise. If the policy goes against your morals and your ethics, then you should have the convictions of your morals and ethics to leave the organization. Isn't that what we should be teaching our youth - stick to your convictions, even if the cost is high?

Dan, I strongly support the BSA position as well. If pressed to give reasons why I do, I would state the Constitution outlines the right for free association, and does not require any explanation or rationale for determining who is in the group. I'm glad to see Bobanon thinks it is the most important lesson to teach Scouts not to look the other way, and to defend the RIGHTS of the BSA when the group's rights of free association are challenged.

I guess I missed the press release where Ed was assigned the task to make or define policy for the BSA. BSA policy is that homosexual behaviour is not morally straight, and is not in accordance with traditional, American family values. I suggest contacting BSA National for any further explanation.

So, would that be the same mainstream America described in the following AP article, after the gay-marriage votes last election? "(AP) In a resounding, coast-to-coast rejection of same-sex marriage, voters in 11 states approved constitutional amendments Tuesday limiting marriage to one man and one woman. The amendments won, often by huge margins, in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Ohio, Utah and Oregon the one state where gay-rights activists hoped to prevail. The bans won by a 3-to-1 margin in Kentucky and Georgia, 3-to-2 in Ohio, and 6-to-1 in Mississippi. "'This issue does not deeply divide America,' said conservative activist Gary Bauer. 'The country overwhelmingly rejects same-sex marriage, and our hope is that both politicians and activist judges will read these results and take them to heart.'"

Ah, yes, the famous Treaty of Tripoli. We all remember studying that famous document in history, don't we? It was SO important in the history of our country - trying to stop the Barbary pirates from raiding our ships. Hey Bobanun - why not show the entire sentence? Well, I guess we all know how well you do at performing research. Since those anti-Christian websites only list partial statements out of context (much like the Rumsfeld statement), here it is in its entirety: As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion as it has in itself no character of enmity [hatred] against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] and as the said States [America] have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. So they passed a treaty saying the United States was not a Christian GOVERNMENT, which is true - it does not dispel the fact that the country was formed as a Christian NATION. By the way, the wording of the treaty was to try to prevent the situation from turning into a Holy War between Christians and Muslims. Our government has no religion - the US is not a Christian government, so our government did not have any hatred toward a Muslim country. The sentence just stated that - nothing more. The treaty lasted for all of 4 years, and subsequent treaties did not contain that language. Got any more "proofs" I can dispell?

Hey monitors - how about identifying yourself when you edit a post. I don't think that is too much to ask, is it?

I can't even imagine asking for family camping to count towards the merit badge. I enjoy the rationalizing I see. You either can add to the requirements (or have a different interpretation), or you can't. If you agree that you can't, and the requirement must be taken exactly as written - Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. (You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement.) Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. then a Scout throwing up a tent in his backyard for the summer and sleeping in it will meet the requirements. Now there is a Scout who will completely understand the Patrol method!

B-, We don't have an impass. We have a COMPLETE FAILURE on your part to make your argument. "I have heard..." GIVE ME A BREAK!!! When you make claims, YOU HAVE TO BACK THEM UP!! It is not my responsibility to spend time looking for something that doesn't exist!!! Debating 101 - YOU JUST LOST! Maybe you can get someone to help pull you out of this hole you just fell in. As for calling Rumsfeld a liar, you and firstpusk both claim Rumsfeld said he knew where the weapons were. Did you ever read the full transcript of the interview? Do you even know who was conducting the interview?? It was Stephanopoulos, on ABC. I guess you forgot, or just chose to ignore where Rumsfeld said: "I would also add, we saw from the air that there were dozens of trucks that went into that facility after the existence of it became public in the press and they moved things out. They dispersed them and took them away. So there may be nothing left. I don't know that. But it's way too soon to know. The exploitation is just starting." He is speaking about intelligence reports, aerial surveillance that showed the trucks moving. Did he make that up, and lie about it? Your left wing blogs won't mention the rest of the interview - they will pick one line out of context, and scream it forever. What about the yellowcake? Have either of you read the intelligence reports? No! Do your homework for a change! Go read the reports CIA analysts were reviewing. You think Bush just made this up? Unlike Bobanun, I will document my claims. Go read the report from the Senate Select Committe on Intelligence, Section II, Niger. http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html Remember Joseph Wilson telling everyone his trip proved there was no attempt by Iraq to buy yellowcake? Here is one of the report's conclusions: Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador's trip to Niger, disseminated in March, 2002, did not change any analysts' assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original CIA reports on the uranium deal. Conclusion 21. When coordinating the State of the Union, no CIA analysts or officials told the National Security Council to remove the "16 words" or that there were concerns about the credibility of the Iraq-Niger uranium reporting. A CIA offical's testimony to the Committee that he told an NSC official to remove the words "Niger" and "500 tons" from the speech, is incorrect. I guess you two will read all that and still come up with "Bush lied!" How pathetic! It was an intelligence failure - plain and simple. But that doesn't fit with your politics, so you can't accept it. Finally, I guess you believe Bush cherry-picked and skewed the intelligence the British and Russian intelligence agencies were getting, since they came to the same conclusions the CIA did. Bush must be one very powerful man! He now controls foreign intelligence agencies! Do you know how ridiculous your arguments are?? Name the issue, I will rip it apart with FACT (documented) and put another notch in my keyboard for exposing your fiction. Two notches added tonight. firstpusk, it would have been a whole lot easier for you just to answer "no."

"O'neill claims that Bush and Co. wanted to implicate Iraq as the force behind 9-11 which is false. Faux News even reported it," Source it, link it and paste it. O'Neill's claims were that Bush was fixated on Iraq as soon as he got in office. When called on it, he admitted the plans were there from the Clinton administration. Show me where O'Neill claims what you stated above.

B-, I'm not going to ask if you ever conducted any research of these subjects, because it is obvious you haven't. As for O'Neill, first, he was trying to sell a book. Now, let's look at his backpeddling after the book came out. From CNN (right-wing?) "People are trying to make a case that I said the president was planning war in Iraq early in the administration," O'Neill said. "Actually, there was a continuation of work that had been going on in the Clinton administration with the notion that there needed to be regime change in Iraq." In case you missed it, he just denied what you claimed he said. More: "The idea that Bush "came into office with a predisposition to invade Iraq, I think, is a total misunderstanding of the situation," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters at the Pentagon." Even more: "Retired Army Gen. Hugh Shelton, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said he saw nothing to indicate the United States was close to attacking Iraq early in Bush's term. Shelton, who retired shortly after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, said the brass reviewed "on the shelf" plans to respond to crises with the incoming Bush administration. But in the administration's first six months, "I saw nothing that would lead me to believe that we were any closer to attacking Iraq than we had been during the previous administration," Shelton told CNN. (Note: Shelton became Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under Clinton) I'm sure the truth is a shock to your system, but there it is. Even O'Neill himself points out that certain "People" are twisting his words - that would be "People" like you.

Beav, Maybe I'm missing something, but your last answer sounds a lot different than "As to Rumsfeld, purely political." As you pointed out, Rumsfeld had nothing to do with the Jamboree being held at AP Hill, so I don't know what favor or political policy he is being rewarded for. For a full overview of the awards, including the nomination forms and addresses where to send them, check out: http://www.bsa-gyc.org:8080/awards/distinguished_service.htm

firstpusk, I'll answer all your allegations, and believe me, I will enjoy doing so, but first let me ask you a few very simple questions. Have you done any independent research on the items you mentioned? Meaning, have you gone to the actual transcripts or Intelligence reports to read the material and draw your own conclusions? Or are you just repeating the rants from those in the "Hate Bush" crowd? Your answers are very important to this debate.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

So Beav, you get all riled up when someone suggests the Silver Beavers might be political, but you then turn right around and accuse the BSA of doing that with the Silver Buffalo, without any evidence. Interesting. Golden Rule? The BSA put in a lot of sweat equity and materials to build structures at AP Hill, as a form of payment for the use of the facility. Those structures are still there, to be used by others as well as the BSA.

Gern, "Another one bites the dust" was by Queen, not AC/DC, unless they did another version I'm not aware of.

Actually, it is "obsessive", not "obcessive." At least it is here, out from under rocks. "BrentAllen are you the forum spelling monitor?" No. Enough; you both need to chill out. Quit with the name calling and the ethics bashing. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Scouts pay homage to America's fallen Chris Reinolds - Staff Sunday, May 28, 2006 Generations of Boy Scouts paid tribute to fallen soldiers Saturday by planting 18,000 American flags on graves at the Marietta National Cemetery. About 1,500 Scouts and volunteers attended, a turnout that shocked organizer Bob Cato. In years past, the event, which is held the weekend of Memorial Day, has attracted about 700 Scouts and volunteers. Cato said better promotion probably caused the improved turnout, which more recently has included Girl Scouts as participants. "We did it in record time," said Cato, a staff trainer in the Foothills District of the Atlanta Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America. Every grave had a flag by 10 a.m. Scouts set each flag vertically 6 inches from the gravestone, stepped back and saluted the flag and the grave. The Boy Scouts have been planting flags for Memorial Day weekend for 14 years at the Marietta cemetery. The Scouts, in their uniforms, received community service patches for their effort. East Cobb County Scouts Matt Thompson and Dillon Eoff rested under a tree after planting about 35 flags each. Matt, 15, said he tries to attend the flag-planting every year. And Dillon, 12, said he has planted flags each Memorial Day since he was a Cub Scout. "Each flag you lay down, you know you're honoring a dead soldier. It gives you a good feeling to put the flag in front of the graves," Dillon said. "It's to celebrate all these people who died for our country." Al Weatherly, a board member of the Atlanta area Boy Scouts, noted that the Scouts also will participate in Monday's Memorial Day event at the cemetery. The ceremony will feature guest speaker Lt. Michael E. Thornton, a Medal of Honor recipient who served in the military from the Vietnam War through Desert Storm. The cemetery, which opened in 1866, is on Washington Avenue off Ga. 120, a few blocks east of the Marietta Square. The Scouts have been a part of the National Memorial Day Ceremony since 1946, Weatherly said. Troop leader Al Friel of east Cobb has brought his Scouts to the cemetery for 14 years. This year, 30 boys, ages 11 to 16, planted flags. "Like all of us, we lost a lot of friends who weren't much older than these guys," said Friel, who was in the Navy in World War II. "We want to get the message to the boys about the importance of remembering comrades who've passed." Nikole Brand, 11, is a Girl Scout in east Cobb who came to the event along with her family. Both of her brothers are Scouts, and her mother is a Cub Scout leader. Nikole said she comes "to show reverence and respect to these soldiers who died here and show them we remember them and thank them for the freedom they gave us."

Atlanta Journal-Constitution Scouts pay homage to America's fallen Chris Reinolds - Staff Sunday, May 28, 2006 Generations of Boy Scouts paid tribute to fallen soldiers Saturday by planting 18,000 American flags on graves at the Marietta National Cemetery. About 1,500 Scouts and volunteers attended, a turnout that shocked organizer Bob Cato. In years past, the event, which is held the weekend of Memorial Day, has attracted about 700 Scouts and volunteers. Cato said better promotion probably caused the improved turnout, which more recently has included Girl Scouts as participants. "We did it in record time," said Cato, a staff trainer in the Foothills District of the Atlanta Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America. Every grave had a flag by 10 a.m. Scouts set each flag vertically 6 inches from the gravestone, stepped back and saluted the flag and the grave. The Boy Scouts have been planting flags for Memorial Day weekend for 14 years at the Marietta cemetery. The Scouts, in their uniforms, received community service patches for their effort. East Cobb County Scouts Matt Thompson and Dillon Eoff rested under a tree after planting about 35 flags each. Matt, 15, said he tries to attend the flag-planting every year. And Dillon, 12, said he has planted flags each Memorial Day since he was a Cub Scout. "Each flag you lay down, you know you're honoring a dead soldier. It gives you a good feeling to put the flag in front of the graves," Dillon said. "It's to celebrate all these people who died for our country." Al Weatherly, a board member of the Atlanta area Boy Scouts, noted that the Scouts also will participate in Monday's Memorial Day event at the cemetery. The ceremony will feature guest speaker Lt. Michael E. Thornton, a Medal of Honor recipient who served in the military from the Vietnam War through Desert Storm. The cemetery, which opened in 1866, is on Washington Avenue off Ga. 120, a few blocks east of the Marietta Square. The Scouts have been a part of the National Memorial Day Ceremony since 1946, Weatherly said. Troop leader Al Friel of east Cobb has brought his Scouts to the cemetery for 14 years. This year, 30 boys, ages 11 to 16, planted flags. "Like all of us, we lost a lot of friends who weren't much older than these guys," said Friel, who was in the Navy in World War II. "We want to get the message to the boys about the importance of remembering comrades who've passed." Nikole Brand, 11, is a Girl Scout in east Cobb who came to the event along with her family. Both of her brothers are Scouts, and her mother is a Cub Scout leader. Nikole said she comes "to show reverence and respect to these soldiers who died here and show them we remember them and thank them for the freedom they gave us."

From the Silver Buffalo Award Overview: "It is customary to present this award to the U.S. President sometime during his term of office, in large measure because of his status as Honorary President of the Boy Scouts of America." So, is that being "purely political?"

You are right, Ed. I'll move on to more productive endeavors. Hope you had a nice Memorial Day. Brent

First, the spelling is "serious" not "sericous", and the proper word would be "are" not "is." I'm so tired of this argument. Do I really need to post all the quotes again from ALL the politicians who spoke of what a grave threat Saddam was, with his weapons? Kerry, Clinton, Albright, Berger, Gore, Kennedy, Waxman, Edwards, Cohen? Ill be glad to do it, again. Then you will say they were all lying too, or change your story to Bush wasn't actually lying, he just cherry-picked the intelligence. That would be just as false as your claim that Bush lied to get us into war. The fact is there was an intelligence failure. Everyone, let me repeat EVERYONE, thought he had the weapons. There was no evidence to suggest he had destroyed them. Saddam's men have stated they lied about the WMD's, so the Iranians and others would think they had them, and would fear them. The fact is our military won a tremendous victory in Iraq (planned by Rumsfeld). They covered more ground and won the battle in an amazingly short period of time. If you could see through your partisan glasses, you would remember the press was predicting lots and lots of G.I. deaths, especially when we reached Baghdad. The street fighting would be horrendous. It wasn't. The plan to secure the peace afterwards has not gone well, but it has gone much better than what you are reading from your far left blogs. I can't predict what my kids will do tomorrow, so I imagine it was pretty hard predicting how the Iraqis would feel after the invasion, and what they would do. I get my news from a variety of sources, including Fox News and Limbaugh. You should check them out, instead of just letting the lefties brainwash you. Seems to me the MSM has been issuing an awful lot of corrections and apologies. Go crawl back under your small rock, where everyone hates Bush and thinks gays must be allowed in Scouting and religion must be removed, in order for the BSA to become "a great youth organization again."

Rarely do I get the opportunity to converse with someone so clueless. Must be a small rock you live under...

Let me get this straight. Since I don't agree with your political position (which is a lie itself) that Rumsfeld lied about pre-war intelligence, I'm a "little challenged ethically?" WHAT OR WHO GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO CHALLENGE MY ETHICS? WHO DIED AND MADE YOU GOD? IF YOU ARE SO RIGHT ABOUT BUSH AND RUMSFELD LYING, IT SHOULD BE EASY TO GET THEM IMPEACHED AND REMOVED FROM OFFICE. WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND GET IT DONE! UNTIL THEN, SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!!!! AND DON'T EVER QUESTION MY ETHICS BECAUSE I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR SCREWED-UP POLITICS!! MAN, WHERE DO THESE CLOWNS COME FROM....

I think it was a well-deserved honor. Rumsfeld has served this country well, and has served Scouting well. And he is an Eagle Scout. What a shame some let political smears from the other side of the aisle cloud their vision. I really like his lesson about quitting. I'll keep that one in my pocket, for future use.

I love hiking! Our second Pack summer event is going out to Stone Mountain Park next Saturday for the National Trails Day event, hosted by the Georgia Appalachian Trail Club and American Hiking Society. The event includes educational exhibits, gear demonstrations and hiking presentations. Speakers include AT thru-hikers and gear demonstrations by Geared To Go. The topics cover just about everything: Backpacking 101 What's in your Daypack Choosing a backpack Water treatment options Choosing a sleep system Choosing cookwear Choosing a tent Choosing footweat Backcountry cooking Also includes trail maintenance and Leave No Trace. And of course, hikes up and around the mountain. They are even providing bottled water, compliments of Blue Ridge Mountain Water. With a little cooperation from Mother Nature, this should be a great event!