BrentAllen

tentmaker, Back when I was in as a youth, we went to Bert Adams for a couple of years (around 1974) and then went out of Council to Daniel Boone. We really enjoyed the camp - much cooler than Bert Adams, we went tubing on a mountain stream, etc... but I remember that lake water was VERY cold! Seemed like it was between 55 - 60 degrees. Was it that cold, or has that temp. dropped over the years as I have retold my stories?

BadenP, I guess I was more confused than I thought. Your post on 8/10/04 stated, and I quote: "By the way my degrees are from the Union Theological Seminary and Harvard Divinity School." I guess it was my mistake on the 16 years as an ordained minister. Somehow, I took the information from your post on 1/15/05 - quote: "After two theology degrees and 15 years as an ordained minister" and added 1 year to it since we are now in 2006. Well, maybe it was just a typo error on your part. The nice thing is you can always go back and check on previous posts to see where the problem is. Good day. For the record, our professionals are a blessing to our District and Council. There were at least 4 professionals in my week-long Wood Badge course 2 years ago, with 3 being DE's. One is now the DE for our District. We had a lot of volunteer help with our FOS campaign - both on the family and corporate side. The DE and DD were there really just to help. Dan Cathy, president of Chick-fil-A, was the guest speaker at our Golden Eagle breakfast. The original goal for our corporate side was $70,000. A few bold volunteers in our District decided we could do better than that, and set our own goal at $100,000. By the end of that breakfast, we had raised just over $115,000 - in one morning, from a group of around 125 businessmen and volunteers! Our Family campaign went just as well, and we heard back in May that we were the #1 District in the country in terms of % of goal met. I think we were up around 140%. This from a District in the Atlanta Area Council, which I'm sure jkh is claiming is going down the toilet. Hey jkh - put those numbers in your pipe and smoke it!

BadenP, I'm a little confused about your professional service - you have to excuse this ol' country boy from Georgia. Maybe you can straighten me out. Back on 6/23/04 you said you spent 3 months at National training and 3 years as a DE. "Your statements on National are based on the limited information you have heard from others, whereas I spent three months training and working there, and another three years as a DE in a council." On 5/11/06 you stated you were a DE and a Field Director for 5+ years. "I was a DE and Field Director for over five years" Then on 6/23/06 you said you were a DE and a Sr. DE for 4 years. "I was A DE, and Sr. DE for four years in the late 80's to early 90's." Now you state that when you left, you were offered the position of Field Director in another council. Maybe it's just me, but reading all that, I just get confused. I'm sure there is a real easy explanation you can share with us. Also, back in August, '04, you mentioned your degrees were from Union Theological Seminary and Harvard Divinity School. "By the way my degrees are from the Union Theological Seminary and Harvard Divinity School." Then on 1/26/06 you said they were from Notre Dame and Harvard. "For the record I have a masters degree in theology from Notre Dame and a doctorate in theology from Harvard." Are Notre Dame and Union Theological Seminary the same thing? I thought Notre Dame Seminary was in New Orleans and UTS was in New York. As you can see, it is easy for this ol' country boy to get confused. 16 years as an ordained minister, 6 years at the IRS, 3, 4 or 5 years as a professional Scouter, Masters and Doctorate degrees, you run your own business, Scoutmaster, Advisor for one crew, Asst. Advisor for another - and you are in your 40's - Wow! How did you find time to do it all! I get tired just thinking about all that! Did you leave the BSA to work for the IRS, or vice versa? That is a very interesting career path.

It ain't a Georgia thing as far as I know. I've only lived in metro Atlanta for all of my 43 years, so being a "newbie" I probably just haven't caught on. ;-)

We have been working on this problem lately, as well. One of the local churches has a fairly new, large dining hall, which is perfect for the event. They have a large gym right down the hall, so maybe we could get a Troop to lead games in there for the kids of the adults. We had Brad Range, one of the Antarctic Boy Scouts, speak at the banquet. His program was a huge success - we just didn't push his part of the program hard enough in the advertising - live and learn. One idea I want to try this year is a District photo contest. Most everyone likes seeing slide shows with music, so this could add to the entertainment without taking too much time in the program. My plan is to get some nice photography equipment donated as prizes, and hope a large number of those who submitted photos will come to the event to see if they won. The biggest reason for no-shows I hear is Scouters don't want to go spend an evening just watching others (who they probably don't know) getting awards.

The boy across the street went to Philmont last year. His Troop posted photos on their web page - great journal of day 1 - day 13! I had him come over and give me a photo tour - looks like they had a blast! http://www.troop434.com/2005/Philmont/index.html

Rainey Mountain is very popular. The Army Rangers hook up for some pretty cool activities with the campers. Camp Woodruff is probably the largest camp in the area, and is usually at full capacity. The camp is north of the Blue Ridge Parkway (Route 76), between Blue Ridge and Blairsville. It is a little bit of heaven on earth, to me. Check out the slide show at http://wsr.atlantabsacamp.org/info.asp

Someone is yankin' your chain about eatin' squid for breakfast. Grits, eggs, bacon and toast is the usual menu. Grits can also mean "Girls Raised In The South." If you want unsweetened tea, you better ask for it. You'll here some folks ask for "half & half" these days, which means a glass of half sweet tea and half unsweet tea - they are trying to eat and drink healthier! Gnats are commonly referred to as "moving pepper." Eat outside and you will see why. Avon's Skin So Soft will keep them away pretty well, if you don't want to use bug spray. They really go for the eyes and mouth, which can be very irritating. Gnats don't bite or anything, but sand fleas do. You'll never see them (sand fleas) but you will feel their bite. Bug spray keeps them away as well. Saying "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" to any adult will get you on their warm side immediatly. You won't get punched for calling someone Reb or Johnny Reb, but you will get some cut eyes and a cold shoulder. Calling someone a Redneck might just get you a black eye. The term doesn't bother me at all, but some take high offense. I wouldn't recommend asking anyone if you can hear their Rebel Yell. If you haven't tried boiled peanuts, get a small bag or ask for a taste to try them. You'll either love 'em or hate 'em. I'm not saying the mosquitos are big, but some say they are so big, they have ticks on 'em. Any true Georgian knows they are fibbin' - we all know ticks hate flying - they get air sick. Where are you going and what are you doing? Please PM me if you don't want to make it public.

I don't honestly know whether homosexuality is a choice or not. I tend to believe it is a choice. When I hear George Michael claim he was hetero until he "tried" homosexuality, it makes me wonder if he would still be hetero if he hadn't tried the other side of the fence. As far as worrying about girls in Venturing being molested by male Scoutmasters, they won't ever be sharing the same bathrooms or entering the tent of a young woman, without it being easily noticed by everyone. YP is supposed to prevent that even with the boys, but everyone has to admit a man entering a boy's tent would not draw near as much attention as a man entering a young woman's. Interesting how some don't want us who are against homosexuality to be "in their face" about it, but are pretty "in your face" here about making the BSA change its existing policy.

A couple of reasons why the course isn't free: 1. The course uses a couple of scenes from at least 2 movies, for which I believe the BSA has to pay a license or user fee. The course also draws on some of the leading management counselors (Covey, for example), and I'm pretty sure the BSA has to pay to use their material. Plus there are materials (notebooks, neckerchiefs, other supplies) needed to run the course. 2. IMHO, each participant needs to have an equity buy-in. The staff puts in an insane amount of time to run a course. If the attendees doesn't invest anything other than time, there will be some who just walk away half way through, wasting the staff's time, and taking the spot from someone who would have completed the full program. Also, there is a sense of value if a fee is charged. I used to organize marksmanship clinics with the US Army Marksmanship Unit - some of the best shooters in the country. If the course was free, we would get 2 dozen attendees. If we charged $50, we would get 100. Same course, same instructors, same everything - most of us believe there ain't no free lunch, and figure if it doesn't cost anything, you won't get much for the time spent.

One of the main topics of WB is building high performance teams. This involves bringing in leaders and explaining your vision, and working to get your leader team working to achieve the goals needed to bring your vision to life. If your unit is short of leaders, then your unit would benefit from some members of the leadership team attending WB. Another topic is breaking down a large project into job responsibilities and assigning tasks to volunteers. If your unit is suffering from lack of an exciting and varied program, your unit would benefit from someone dedicated to Scouting taking the time to attend WB. The lessons learned in WB apply to your job/profession/business and your family. The ripples in the pond from the WB pebble spread far, and in every direction. Just my .02.

Sorry, Dan - you don't get off that easy. How would a brother marrying a brother harm anyone? Please be specific. What if a brother and sister wanted to marry, and wanted to adopt kids instead of having their own? How would that harm anyone? Please be specific. In recent history, we have had a woman marry a dolphin, and someone else marry a cobra. If someone wants to marry their dog or cat, what is the harm? They are already living together, in some cases sharing the same bed. What harm would that do? Who says a 14 year old is too young? I've known some very mature 14 year olds, and some very immature 20 year olds. To make a rule like that is pure age discrimination - it does not take into account the maturity of the individual. Are you telling me all people are the same maturity at 14? Other countries allow people to marry at that age - why can't we? If the two people love each other, what is the harm? Please be specific.

Dan, It is the slippery slope that is the problem. If same-sex marriages are allowed, how do you write the definition of marriage? Is it just two people who love each other? If we allow that, then how can you prevent incest? If they love each other, then how can you discriminate against them? How about more than one wife or partner? If they love each other, are you going to discriminate against them? What about the 40 year old guy who falls in love with the 14 year old girl? If you say she is too young, you are still discriminating - like it or not. So please don't give me "discrimination is wrong" because I can stand that argument on its ear. How does a 14 year old marrying someone much older hurt my marriage? Give me one good, solid reason how that hurts or damages my marriage. Why should we prevent it? How does a brother and sister getting married hurt my marriage? If they say they don't want to have kids, how is that different from a same-sex marriage where the partners doesn't want to have kids? How are they hurting anyone? What gives you the right to discriminate against them? What if they are two brothers who want to get married? If someone wants to marry their pet, how does that hurt my marriage? Give me an argument as to why that shouldn't be allowed. Just one good reason how someone marrying their pet, which they love, in their own home - hurts my marriage? Now substitute illegal drugs - how does someone doing lines of cocain in their home affect me? Why shouldn't we allow that? I saw where some teenager wanted to sell themselves as a sex slave - how does that affect me? If he/she is not hurting someone else, then why not allow it? Yes, it is a slippery slope that I don't care to step out on. Remember, discrimination in ANY form is wrong to some, so if you use that as your argument, be ready for a long fall.

"Apparently atheists have no civil rights in your view; public schools chartering Packs are the same as if a public school's baseball team said "no Jews allowed". Public schools can't violate the civil rights of atheist students." No, I simply believe in the legal concept of having standing in order to sue. If a Pack chartered by your school refused to let you join because you are an atheist, then fine, sue. No one in our area has complained that their rights were violated or denied, so why should we have to move our Pack? When the father out in California tried to sue the school because the Pledge stated "under God" he was denied because he did not have standing. I believe that same concept should apply to each school - they are the CO, not the School District or State Board or Education or US Dept. of Ed.

"If it's found in nature, it's natural by definition." So.... there are no abnormalties found in nature? Two-headed animals are...natural? "If it's found in nature, it's natural by definition. Not a construct of man alone. The only thing that is a construct of man (through the Bible) is that homosexuality is a sin." Hey funscout, let's follow the lead of those who want to get rid of religion and do away with the Bible. Only natural law. All the males in a community will fight it out to see who is the dominate male, and gets to breed with all the females. If the males want to kill all the newborn males, so they won't grow up to pose a threat, so be it - natural law. Besides being against many religions, homosexuality is against the natural law and order of the preservation of the species. While man is part of nature, he is civilized (showing evidence of moral and intellectual advancement; humane, ethical, and reasonable). Religion provides the bedrock and defines moral and ethical behaviour for many. I don't think the left will have much luck convincing the major religions in this country to change their outlook on homosexuality, so they will end up following Ted Kennedy - calling us bigots.

Yah, wake up and smell the coffee, eh, Beavah. Yah, like, that's not what I said at all, eh? Jkh only posts negative things about the BSA. He has never posted anything positive. I can tell you the negative things he posted about my council (AAC) were mostly either exaggerated or completely false. If all I could see was the negative side of an organization, I would not remain a member of it. Go back and look at his posts. All he does is air dirty laundry. He is either complaining about the salary of an SE or accusing professional Scouters of criminal behaviour and cover-ups. He seeks out one side of the story - the one damaging to the BSA - and runs with it. I can tell you from personal experience he is only giving one side of the story, and goes out of his way to ignore the other. Our mommas always taught us der were 2 sides to every story, eh, Beavah?

Hey, Merlyn - I bet you drive in the left lane, doing the speed limit exactly, to make sure no one is speeding. Lane monitor? I can see you crawling under the beds at hotels, checking for the tags on the mattresses as well. What cracks me up is you and the ACLU are out there looking for problems that don't exist. No one is complaining about schools chartering Cub Scout Packs, except for you. That practice has been going on for 75 years! How sad you have to waste your life chasing ghosts. I bet you were a heck of a hall monitor in grade school!

So, when did you turn in your resignation? Clearly, things are so bad within the BSA that you aren't are part of this corrupt organization anymore. I'm curious - which organization have you now joined, which has over 4 million members, but has no problems whatsoever.

I took WB as a weeklong course 2 years ago, and it was one of the best things I have ever done. At the closing at the end of the week, there were lots of hugs and tears - it was a "Mountain Top" experience for many of us. To me, WB is another sign of dedication. It is a fraternity/sorority as well. In our Council and District, most committee members have been through WB. When projects come up (planning Scouters Academy, Council L-T Strategic planning, etc...) Wood Badge'rs are usually at the top of the list of those called. Why? Their dedication is known, their planning skills are known, their team-player attitude is known. That is some of what Wood Badge teaches! That doesn't mean you have to attend WB to have those traits/skills/dedication - I know many who do, who haven't attended. IMHO, a great Scouter attending WB will come out an even greater Scouter! But I'm biased - my father is an old WB'r, so is the Scoutmaster from my Troop. I believe in the course so much I offer 50% scholarships (my money, not the Pack's) to the leaders in our Pack. I've had one take me up on it, this past spring - he loved it! Don't put it off - sign up for the next course!

In the interest of full disclosure: "Tom Willis, a Decatur dentist and Scout volunteer who went public with accusations of inflated membership last year and claims the council retaliated by making up sexual harassment charges against him and then kicking him out of scouting, said he doesn't feel vindicated by the audit. "I'm sad that it had to come to this," he said, noting he originally wanted to meet with council staffers to figure out why the membership numbers didn't add up and then correct them without going public. He also doesn't believe the audit findings will help his appeal to the national office for reinstatement into scouting, for which he had volunteered 25 years."

I'm afraid Professor Kmiec is too late with this column. Uncle Teddy (Kennedy) has already declared that anyone against homosexual marriage is a bigot. No matter what your religion says, if you are against the practice, you are a bigot. Uncle Teddy says so. I guess he only plays a Catholic on tv.

9 Councils proposed the change, and you think that is a large number? 9 Councils?? Out of more than 300? That is 3%! Sorry, no I do not think that is a large number! Come on, Merlyn - you can do better than that. Why not ask me if it was a white, men's nation? Don't waste your time - I have better things to do than argue with someone who is only interested in tearing down the BSA.

Trev, All I can say is, don't hold your breath. We both know which groups charter the largest percentage of units. There are even more units chartered by religious organizations today than there were a year ago, thanks to the ACLU forcing schools to give up their charters. Until a majority of chartering organizations want to change the policy, it isn't going to happen. If it ever does, I predict Scouting will not be recognizable as it is today. I'm curious - if any of you disagreed with the ethics and positions of your church, would you try to force the church to change, or would you leave? Bobanon mentions he grew up Presbyterian but is now UU. Why did you leave, instead of trying to change the Presbyterians? Same thing with a private school - if you didn't agree with their teachings, would you try to force them to change, or would you leave? If you would leave those organizations instead of trying to force them to change, why treat the BSA differently?

The BSA respects the Constitutional rights of all individuals, including homosexuals. The BSA only wishes all individuals would return that same level of respect. The ethics of the BSA is that homosexuality is wrong. Why join this group if you do not agree with its ethics? The Sierra Club does some great things, but I refuse to join because I do not agree with some of their policies and positions. I find other ways to participate in conservation. This conversation always dwindles down to "why don't you start your own organization," which is answered with "it takes too much time to start from scratch." From my standpoint, as hard as it would be to start a new organization, it would be much easier to do that than trying to get the BSA to change. Do y'all think there is a large group inside the BSA who wants this policy to change?

Dan, If Congress passed a law saying private organizations could not discriminate, that would be in direct violation of the 1st Amendment, wouldn't it? Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. ad hominen is defined by a personal attack on the messenger - please show me where I have do so. If you don't like the content of my posts, follow your own advice.