BrentAllen

This Troop is just down the road from us, about 1/2 mile. Nice story. http://www.thecrier.net/articles/2007/09/18/letters/letters.txt To The Editor: I want to share a story about a Boy Scout troop and its leader. I would prefer to keep it anonymous, but understand you require a signature, not that they are not deserving, but that they are representative of the kind of quality adults and boys we have involved in scouting all over. The story here is about the spirit of what was done and how well everyone responded. Suffice it to say its about a Dunwoody/Sandy Springs Boy Scout Troop. In todays world of PC correctness of trying to tear down or overly critical of organizations trying to make a difference in society please read about what is right about our youth and adults today. Back in the spring of 07 a bunch of boys ranging in age of 11-16 with their Boy Scout leaders went backpacking three miles in on a Friday night to camp at Brays Field in the Cohutta Wilderness of north Georgia. The next morning a group of Scouts hiked out of the valley to be dropped off about 12 miles down stream on the Conasauga River and hike back to camp. On the way out they passed a young family of mom, dad, older sister, younger sister and boyfriend hiking in to spend the weekend at Brays Field. After a day of hiking and about 15 river crossings, the weary, wet bunch of Scouts filed into camp to change and fix a hot meal before it got dark. While they were gathered around the fire pit swapping stories of the day with the rest of the troop, the oldest daughter of the family they had seen hiking in that morning came over asking for help. Her mom was in terrible pain and they didnt know what to do. Two of the adult leaders went back with her to their campsite to see how they could help. The mom was experiencing extreme back pain and spasms and it became evident to the family they needed to get her to an emergency room. The adult leaders came back to the troop and apprised them of the situation. They would have to get the family out tonight. While two of the adult leaders went with the father and mother whom they had gotten to start walking, the rest of the troop sprang into action. The two most senior and experienced scouts finished changing their wet clothes and shoes and gathered headlamps and emergency gear in case they had to make a pallet to carry the mom out. The rest of the troop went to the familys campsite and under the cover of falling darkness, quickly repacked each back pack with all the gear and tents they had brought down. Once ready, the two senior scouts carried the two largest backpacks and escorted the two girls and boy the three miles uphill to the parking area. Suffice it to say, they got the mom and family to the closest hospital and made it back to camp about 1:30 in the morning, making it a 20-mile day. Other than the ribbing the older two boys took for having to endure cute teenage girls, they demonstrated great character, skill and training. Everyone did their part, the two senior scouts shouldering the heavy gear and escorting the youth out, the two adults assisting with the parents, and the rest of the troop pitching in packing and cleaning up the campsite. The story should have ended there, but there is more. About a month or two later the troops scoutmaster approached me and asked, You remember the family my troop helped out down at Brays field? Well, the father made a donation to the troop. Its four figures past the decimal point. That was really something. Then the scoutmaster made a comment that really shows the character and quality of adults we have in scouting. You know, its fantastic, but we cant keep it. What the troop did was a good deed in scouting and we cant accept the donation. That is the end of the story, parts of which are played out by scouts and their adult leaders in troops everywhere. Just wanted to share it with you and the Dunwoody/Sandy Springs community so they can feel proud. Phil Stovall

"In the real world, no one seems to care if we wear uniform pants." Oak, I guess you never have actually met a member of the UP. Neither have I. That being said, I do care if you wear the correct uniform. I''m not going to say anything to you about it if we met face to face, as you aren''t in my unit. If you want to know how I really feel, I will tell you that any time I see boys wearing only parts of the uniform, I think a) what a bunch of slackers b) it''s a shame the boys don''t have more respect for the uniform and the program and c) it''s a shame they don''t have leaders and parents who do care, and can lead on the issue. I''ll never say that to anyone not in my unit in the real world (unless asked), but I will type it here - not to start an argument or trash anyone, but to state my opinion and hopefully educate and promote the wearing of the complete correct uniform. The boys in my unit wear the complete correct uniform - shirt, pants, belt, socks. Why can our boys do it, and not others? I just don''t understand the differences. And this isn''t about rules, it is about the program. If you want to be a Scout, you wear the Scout uniform. To me, it all comes down to leadership. If your parents decided they didn''t care about some of the Eagle requirements, would you just ignore them? Just because they don''t care about the uniform doesn''t mean it isn''t important. I think they just need some leadership on the issue.

"Sounds like you are onto the right approach to inspire them to wear the uniform -as opposed to insisting and stomping feet that they wear it.. You will find that setting a solid and high (but realistic) expectation combined with proper inspiration will be better than being a "unform fanatic" " I could be wrong, but that sounds awfully close to the honey & vinegar thing. Hey, but what do I know?

CNYScouter, Was this WB staffer wearing this as an example of how NOT to wear the uniform? The uniforming requirements down here for WB staff are pretty strict. I''m pretty sure a Scouter wearing the uniform you describe wouldn''t be invited to staff in our council. We have the attitude you describe - staff should demonstrate uniforming properly. I keep 4 shirts up to date - 1 for Pack, 1 for District, 2 for SM (one for camping, one for ceremony). Keeps me from forgetting to change things like shoulder loops.

Food for thought - straight out of the BSA publications: Insignia Guide Official Policy Personal commitment The leaders of Scouting - both volunteers and professional - promote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions. (compromising to anything else is not promoting the correct complete uniform) The Rules and Regulations and policy. The following pages contain our uniform policy as taken from the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. The chapters contain applications of the regulations to each program area. Neither the Rules and Regulations of the Boys Scouts of America, the policy, nor the program applications may be added to or changed in any way unless approved by the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America through its Program Group Committee. Scout Uniform, Boy Scout Handbook, pg. 12 The complete official uniform includes the Scout long-sleeved or short-sleeved shirt, Scout pants or shorts, Scout belt and buckle, Scout socks or knee socks. A neckerchief and cap or campaign hat are optional. Wear full uniform for all ceremonial and indoor activities, such as troop meetings, courts of honor, and most other indoor functions. The uniform should also be worn during special outdoor occasions, such as Scout shows, flag ceremonies, and special times at summer camp. Cub Scout Leader Book, pg. 8-4 Uniform Rules & Regulations No alteration of or addition to the official uniform, badges or insignia - or the rules and regulations concerning the wearing of the uniform - may be authorized by anyone except the National Executive Board. How To Wear The Uniform, pg. 12-11 Uniform parts should not be worn separately or with civilian clothing. The entire uniform should be worn or not at all. The pack does not have the authority to make changes to the uniform. The Cub Scout Uniform, pg. 12-2 The Cub Scout uniform consists of the following parts: Trousers or shorts. Official blue, machine washable polyester/cotton. Shirt.... How To Uniform Your Pack, pg. 12-11 The uniform helps you achieve the purposes of Cub Scouting, so you will want to make sure that all of the boys and adult leaders in your pack are completely and correctly uniformed. Leader attitudes toward uniforming are important because leaders influence the attitudes of boys. When leaders are in uniform, boys will know that uniforms are important and necessary. When leaders wear badges and insignia incorrectly, boys get the impression that proper uniforming isn''t required. Remember that uniforms identify boys and leaders as members of the BSA. Make sure that they wear the full and correct uniform. When a boy joins a pack, be sure to impress on his family the importance of the uniform. Suggest that the boy begin his Cub Scout experience by helping to earn part of the cost of his uniform. The pack committee should set the goal of 100 percent boy and adult leader uniforming. Finally, a B-P quote: "Show me a poorly uniformed troop and I will show you a poorly uniformed leader." I inherited a Pack with a waist-up uniform policy. One Wood Badge ticket item later, and we had a full uniform Pack. It can be done, it just takes vision and determination. Wood Badge training doesn''t hurt, either. How did we do it? A quick inspection at every Pack meeting with the winning Den getting $2 Brewster''s Ice Cream Cards. We also had an inspection where the boys inspected the leaders (they were given a heads up). That got the leaders in uniform quickly - the den with the winning leaders got the ice cream cards. It is amazing what a kid will do for a $2 Brewsters card! You will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

I wonder what burned watermelon rind smells like.... There used to be a country song about Watermelon Wine. You might end up with some of that as well. :-) Re: boiling water in a paper cup - the burning temperature of paper is 450 degrees F. and the boiling point of water is 212 degrees F. Do the math. :-)

I don''t know whether my 11 year old will ever make Eagle, but I plan on being in Scouting for a long time. The SM of our Troop (as a youth) was a SM for 30 years. My dad was still involved long after I went to college. One of their WB Patrol mates from the 1970''s lives very close to me - he was a SM for 32 years, earned his 4th bead years ago, and is a Life to Eagle Counselor - still going strong at 75 years of age. The gentleman who was their Coach Counselor back in the 70''s was an unofficial advisor to the WB course I just staffed - he is also a 4 beader, still active as a Scouter. The SM of this summer''s WB course (Ted) has been a SM for 34 years, never had a son, and will be going strong for years to come. These Scouters are my role models. They enjoy Scouting because they get to work with people who share their same values and mission. Scouting is a way of life for them, and it won''t stop being a way of life as long as they are breathing. Ted runs a very interesting Troop - which we are using as a model for our new Troop. ASMs are selected - you can''t just show up and say you want to be an ASM. The requirements include the basic training (SLT, ITOLS) but then also includes many of the T-FC requirements. They expect the ASMs to know how to take care of themselves in the woods, and how to teach those skills. They even have a SM conference. Once completed, the new ASM is recognized in a ceremony and made an official member of the adult patrol (Bears, for them). ASMs are expected to be 100% at all campouts and activities. If they can''t attend, they are required to notify the SM as far in advance as possible. Some might think with all these requirements, it would be hard to get ASMs. They would be wrong. This Troop has plenty of ASMs and Committee members, most of whom are WB trained as well. Ted jokes that WB training has almost turned in to a requirement as well, since nearly all are. Their adult patrol has elections once a year, and elect a Patrol Leader. His duties for the adult patrol are identical to those of the boys'' - make duty rosters, see that camp runs smoothly, etc. These adults really enjoy camping and spending time with each other, so they are having as much fun as the boys. Many have been there for years after their sons aged out. Every other month, Ted holds an AIA (All Interested Adults) dinner and meeting at his house. As titled, all adults are welcome to attend and voice any concerns and hear about upcoming plans, while sharing a meal. This helps create a real family environment for the Troop adults. Please note this does not mean the adults plan the Troop events - this is just a time for the SM to relay the plans the PLC has made to the adults. To see what I consider to be a well organized boy-run, boy-led Troop, visit http://www.204bsa.com/ While there, check out their requirements on emergency preparedness kits. We are starting this tradition with our new Troop.

If you are looking for Honor Arrows that can show the Webelos'' achievements with beads, check out Tatanka Arrows. http://members.aol.com/TatankaScouts/page0003.html When my son''s den crossed over back in March, we gave them all BSA Stay Glow Climbers Swiss Army knives (Victorinox). These were a big hit, and they really do glow in the dark! Another plus is the boys can write their names on them with a Sharpie, and it is easily read and doesn''t rub off. http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?ctlg=05NDC&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CAMPING&c3=KNIVES&c4=&lv=3&item=12160

Its Me, As Nike says, Just Do It! Our situation wasn't quite that bad, but pretty close. We struck out on our own. Everyone, please welcome new Troop 494, at Dunwoody Baptist Church. We signed the paperwork today and held our first meeting tonight. Six 11-year-olds eager for adventure! We have a great chartering partner at the church. They have offered money, an equipment trailer, and are paying for the Troop flag. I think they want to do more, but we need to carry some of this load ourselves. Its Me, I have a t-shirt with the following on it. Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday See? There is no Someday. Another thought for you, from Robert Frost: "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference." "Do not follow where the path may lead... Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Robert Frost

packsaddle, Moral relativism? You'll need to explain that one to me. How in the world do you come up with that about me from my posts? Actually, packsaddle, I'm very disappointed in YOUR reading and comprehension skills, as well as your knowledge of Current Events. Vicki's word "pervert" was related to one person - Foley, I believe. You then applied it Clinton. I'm not obsessed with Clinton or his actions. You just seem to jump to his defense any time his past actions are brought up, but never anyone else. Trev, What do you mean by a pass? Would I vote for him? No.

A couple of suggestions: 1. Introduce the shoe-box hike to the older boys. Set an age and rank that the boys must be to participate (1st Class, 14 y/o for example). On this hike, the boys are only allowed to take what they can get in a standard shoe box (all must use the same shoe box for measurement). This gets them thinking AND builds them up in the eyes of the younger Scouts ("you went camping with only THAT! Wow!"). They usually will take an extra large trash bag for a sleeping bag, ultralight tarp or plastic for a shelter, alcohol or other backpacking stove, small pot, space blanket for ground cloth, etc. It is a real challenge, but a real eye-opener when they see they don't need 50 lbs of gear to go camping. Obviously, the weather must be pretty nice - no real cold weather. 2. Boys are usually into gadgets and gear, and ultralight backpacking is all about that. Finding multiple ways to use equipment is a mental and physical challenge. The boys can make their own alcohol stoves from an aluminum drink can. Challenge them to see how much weight they can cut from their packed backpacks, and encourage them to share their ideas (cutting handles off tooth brushes, using plastic sporks from fast food restaurants). There are several web pages dedicated to this subject, as well as books. Ray Jardine is one of the pioneers in this area. The boys can make a lot of their gear, which gives them pride and saves them money. Once they make some gear, they will probably be anxious to go out and use it. http://forums.backpacker.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/973107219 http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/ Finally, take them some place scenic, some place they will be excited to talk about at the next Troop meeting.

packsaddle actually brought in the word perversion. I'll jump back to Vicki's original wording - "Moral and ethical compasses gone awry." And sorry, but a married man playing hide the cigar with an intern young enough to be his daughter is perverted. So, does Bill Clinton in a photo op on Easter Sunday, coming out of church with his family, appear to be hypocritical considering his actions that followed that day, with Miss Lewinski? And isn't that part of the charge against Craig - espousing family values while living a much different lifestyle? Was not Clinton guilty of the same?

Its Me, Crooked River State Park (Georgia) is 15 - 20 minutes from the Ferry - they have camping and cabins. The Ferry takes 45 minutes to reach Cumberland. Book your tickets in advance. Camping reservations can be made 6 months in advance, I think. Sea Camp is the closest camp site to the ferry docks, which are on the southern end of the island. It is a gorgeous location, back in the live oaks and palmettos, right off the sand dunes and beach. They have toilets and cold showers. You will see more people here than at any other location on the island. Going north, the next camp site is Stafford Beach. Also near the beach and sand dunes. The next two sites, Hickory Hill and Yankee Paradise, are back in the woods. The water source is sulfer water - safe to drink, if you can get it past your nose! :-) The furthest camp site north is Brickhill Bluff. It is on the western side of the island, on a bluff overlooking the Intercoastal Waterway. This area is very nice, but it takes some planning, strong hikers and little longer trip to reach it. IIRC, you can request sites but you don't actually find out what you get until you get on the island. The Ranger Station is at the second ferry dock. You really can't go to the island without seeing the Dungeness Ruins on the southern end. The wild horses are often seen near there, as well. If you want to go north, I would recommend trying to make Stafford, Hickory Hill or Yankee Paradise for the first night, then hiking up to Brickhill Bluff for the second night, then back down for the third night. You need to make sure you can catch the ferry on your last day there. If you miss it, you will need to pay for private transportation off the island. Also understand you will not be able to use any vehicles on the island. You will be walking everywhere. Also plan on spending some time on the beach, if the weather is nice. Miles of beach without a single building or beach umbrella in sight! A good map can be found at http://www.nps.gov/cuis/upload/IslandMap.pdf

"Aside from that and the infidelity, what was the source of perversion?" packsaddle, Maybe it doesn't bother you, but seeing Clinton walk out of Church on Easter Sunday with his family and his Bible in his hands, and knowing he then headed over to the Oval Office for a session with Monika is perverted, to me. Did you read the Starr Report? Familiar with the cigar acts? Do you not consider that perverted? Does lying and infidelity really rank so low on your moral scale? Pretty major, to me.

Beavah, I like your second list better than your first. There, are you happy? :-) dscouter, BW's list is of "traits", not a scoring matrix or measurements. Big difference. Traits are characteristics, not scores. One SM I know who runs a very successful Troop has AIA dinners once a month (All Interested Adults). Good time to get together and just talk Scouting and the Troop.

Trev, Maybe the Senator was caught in a conundrum - maybe he is a habitual liar as well as a covert homosexual. You say his lying is immoral, but I would say his (alleged) homosexual behavior is immoral. I would applaud him for denying any homosexual tendencies he had, not chastise him for lying to himself. Should a pedophile just accept his problem and act it out, instead of fighting it? [note: I am not saying homosexuals are pedophiles. I use this comparison because I have been informed these behaviors are not made by choice] habitual: inherent in an individual. inherent: belonging by nature or settled habit.

Longhaul, The difference is the adults leaving camp to drink a few adult beverages isn't against the law. "The message I see being delivered here is honesty is not rewarded." Rewarding honesty by not punishing the boy? So, everytime he smokes pot, he just admits it, and gets off with no punishment. Yeah, that makes sense. No - you punish for the offense, but if he lies about it, the punishment for lying is worse than the punishment for the offense. What could be worse, you ask? Taking it to law enforcement and having it put on his record. "This leads me to understand that the "law" was involved and found no evidence of drug use." I believe the boy admitted guilt. Do you need more evidence than that? If so, use a drug test kit. I don't cut the boy any slack. From my reading, he was a staffer. Behavior like this must be stopped immediatly, or it will spread quickly. Illegal drug use has no place in Scouting, either for adults or kids. The message should be sent loud and clear - you do drugs, you don't do Scouting - it's your choice. Too bad this boy's leaders didn't deliver this message.

"Regarding trained leaders, who here would send their kids to a school with untrained teachers?" Dan, In that case, they wouldn't actually be "sending" their kids anywhere, would they?

Gee, this whole time I thought we were talking about training for adults, which Powder Horn most certainly is. "Powder Horn is a training opportunity designed to expose the Venturing or Boy Scout leader to activities and resources necessary to operate a successful Venturing Ranger Award or Troop High Adventure program in several ways" Also, am I the only person who has the BSA program book "Passport to High Adventure"? Yes, OGE, I know it isn't a training course, but it gives lots of information about how to prepare for a High Adventure trip. I thought that was what we were talking about.

None for high adventure? Hmmmm.... I thought that was what Powder Horn was all about...

OK, Beavah, I'm starting to get your point. Just because some adult wrote BSA policy that says the Scout uniform includes Scout pants, socks and a belt doesn't mean the boys have to follow it. They can wear whatever they want, right? And they can take the same attitude with the G2SS as well. If they want to play paintball, then they can, right? Same with hunting - they can all go on a dove shoot in a couple of weeks - great Scouting event! They can all ride out to the field in the back of a pick-up truck - that sounds like lots of fun! After the shoot, they can race the ATVs around the field. I'm starting to like the way you think! No problems with the above, eh?

"Yah, BrentAllen, there's always an argument that boy-led should be trumped by all kinds of adult policy, eh?" Interesting. I didn't realize BSA policy was "adult policy." Does that mean that all the other BSA policies, from G2SS to advancement, are all silly adult policies? Or are you the assigned mystic to determine which BSA policies are real, and which are silly adult policies that can be ignored? FScouter, are the patrols in your troop all age-based? Do you have patrols of older boys, and each year the new Scouts form a permanent patrol? If so, do the younger boys ever learn anything from the older boys?

"The boys, not the adults, are responsible for uniformin'." So Beavah, do you tell the PLC that Troops don't have the authority to set their own uniform policy, other than for hats and neckerchiefs? Or do you expect them to figure that out on their own? Or do you just not care about that BSA policy? If the last, then what other BSA policies do you let your Troop ignore? I'll ask a question you seem to be dodging for a second time. When a boy from your unit goes for his Eagle BOR, what does he wear? Scout's Honor on your answer.

Gonzo, You would have gotten more unbiased feedback if you had left Bob White's name out of it. I personally liked his comments and saw eye to eye with him most of the time. Bob White's list is one you can use to walk in on a couple of Troop meetings and see whether those traits are present. Beavah's would be nearly impossible to figure out. Regarding trained leaders, who here would send their kids to a school with untrained teachers? Why in the world would you send your son to a Troop with untrained leaders? I'll add to the list: They recognize their guests at functions (usually parents) and allow them to go first for refreshments or meals.

Ya, Beavah, tell me why boys in one Troop wear the uniform comppletely and correctly, while the boys in another Troop just down the street wear only the shirt? These boys all go to the same school, and are from similar economic backgrounds. In fact, there are 4 Troops in our immediate area. Three have very good uniforming, while the fourth is poor. What is the difference? I'll help you out - the leaders. The leaders at the 3 with good uniforming set a good example and set high expectations. The 4th doesn't. Don't tell me the boys won't wear it, or that it is only the adults that expect it. The 3 Troops with good uniforming demand that the adult leaders wear the complete uniform as well. If they want to be Scouts, they should wear the uniform. Some boys are going to push the limits and try to get away with wearing jeans or other pants. It is up to the leaders (adult and boy) to set the boundaries, or to let them slide. Once the boys see the uniforming boundaries slide, they will see they can push other boundaries as well. Beavah - what do your Scouts wear when they go for their Eagle BOR? Scouts honor on your answer, eh? The official uniform is for Troop meetings. It is designed to reflect what a boy wants. Think of it in 4 quadrants. 1st is right sleeve - a boy wants to be in a gang of friends, his patrol. 2nd is right pocket - a boy wants adventure - activity patch. 3rd is left pocket - a boy wants recognition - his rank patch. 4th is left sleeve - a boy wants to lead - POR patch. The uniform serves the purpose for Troop meetings. The BSA has activity uniforms that cover a broad range of climates and acitivities - the Switchback pants and the nylon activity shirt (long or short-sleeve). I don't have a problem dressing for 95% of Scout activities with both the official and activity uniform.