TSS_Chris

They shouldn't be doing book work while camping. You're in the outdoors, get them out and doing things. For my pack overnighters, we focus on outdoors requirements only. So we hike, we practice pitching tents (especially if we are sleeping in a cabin), we do foil cooking. Other than that, we try to get the kids involved in games that may (or may not) help them with requirements, and we'll take advantage of any other unique opportunities the camp has to offer. I only hold 2 very brief lectures during the campout: At the Friday night cracker barrel, I'll do a quick leave no trace session, and at Saturday's breakfast, I do a quick "what do you do if you get lost?" lecture, drawing heavily on the NSAR's "Hug a Tree" program. Make sure the boys have enough free time to explore and discover the world around them. I've thrown my plans out the window because someone found a box turtle or decided to build a fort. They learned more from those than I could teach them with what I had planned.

Mark served as my district's DE for about a year before he got his latest promotion. He was a fantastic DE. We were sorry to lose him, but I he is doing a great job for the Council as Development Director. I'm hoping he stays with the BSA and ends up as CSE sooner rather than later.

I'll agree with that. I've had problems getting enough trained leaders -- and eve more fun, making sure each leader has created only one training profile, and I can inform my council of what they are.

This new training requirement has been my downfall for the last 2 recharter periods. From what I understand from my DE, is that once National requires it of your Council, the BSA computer system will reject any recharter application that doesn't have a compliment of fully trained leaders. There is no way to roll this back, nor is there a way for anyone at the council level to bypass this requirement. You can find the minimum requirements for adult leadership on the Unit Renewal Application Instructions. According to the only comprehensive reference I can find as to what constitutes "fully trained", the four key Venturing leaders (NL, CC, and 2 x MC) need YPT and "Venturing Leader Specific" (P21). Of course, P21 is not yet available online. With as many people as you need to get trained, you should be able to get your District Training Chair to come to your location and do the training in person at your convenience as several others have suggested. I think the "charter training" you are referring to is the new, in-person Chartered Org Rep (COR) training the BSA has rolled out (D72 if you're following along on the official training scorecard). This should only be required of the one person on your committee serving as COR. AFIK, the COR does not need any other "Leader Specific" training. The IH does not need any training. Once you have the 5 core adult positions filled with trained leaders, you can register any other adult members who can't make the P21 training as part of the "Unit Scouter Reserve" (91U). Once they complete this course, then you can move them into their "proper" position.

Thanks for the Feedback TS. I'm really hoping this system works. I spoke with a returning parent who was planning on registering as a leader. He is going to put in an online leader application so we can see the process. I've told him his is the first one in our Council, so we'll see how things go. I'll report here as I learn more.

@BD: Yes. Call an attorney. From the OP's description, his CO is most likely "The Parents of Pack 123, Anytown USA, Inc." So he's not just disbanding a unit. He's ceasing the operations of a nonprofit corporation. That requires a resolution of the board. There are definitely some i's that need to be dotted here.

I can't see any value for this at the unit or District levels. At those levels, you should be able to have a personal relationship with your membership. If you're so out of touch with them that you need to rely on anonymous surveys to gauge their opinion, you're sunk. However, this sounds like great training for National and Council staff and commissioners. Maybe, just maybe, if they learn to pay attention to VOTS feedback, they'll get back in touch with the program and remove some of the BS from the BSA.

The UC or DE needs to talk more with the prospective COs about their responsibilities. If an organization agrees to be a CO, they can't charge a unit rent. They are obligated to provide the unit a meeting space, among other things. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/TrainingtheCOR/03.aspx

I'd call the meeting now. If you wait until after recruiting, then you'll have more cats you need to herd to get a quorum. In the meantime, someone is going to have to do all the membership paperwork, and get the unit started up in the fall. That someone sounds like you. If it were me, I'd have an attorney draw up a proxy ballot where anyone who wasn't going to attend could sign their votes over to you, and mail an invite to all the members. At least this way, you should have enough votes to make a binding decision by yourself if no-one else cares to show up. You'll also have a very clear indication that none of the other parents wants your unit to continue.

From what I can see, you have to opt-in to the application. The app isn't processed until one of the Key 3 manually approves it from the MyScouting dashboard, so that's okay too. Still murky on what happens afterwards, though.

I did a "recruiting" seminar at my Council Service Center this weekend. (I plan to post more on it when I have the time. Lots of questionable info). At that seminar, the Council FD told us that your policy is strictly not allowed: Scouts aren't insured by the BSA until they are registered. They can attend meetings at the CO if not registered, but can not go on any outings w/o their membership processed. I'm a CM, so my problem is getting boys who are showing up to meetings registered and paid up. Personally, I'm all for online forms. If it works as advertised, I don't have to handle paper apps, deal with DEs misplacing their copies, and take calls from an annoyed Registrar to hunt down the parent and find a missing piece of information.

From what I can see of this, a member of the unit Key 3 must explicitly accept the application before a youth can join the unit. For an adult, the COR still needs to approve the application (don't know how) before a unit leader can accept it. So, just because there is an application submitted, there is no obligation for me to accept it. From the MyScouting interface, as CM I can see all of the information for the person and even print this so I've got all the information that exists on the paper form. The form self-checks so an applicant can't leave some key piece of information blank that my DE then requires me to go and hunt down the parent a second time before the app actually gets processed. There is another button "Print Payment Voucher." Since I didn't approve the app I submitted, I don't know what this looks like, or how this works.

We're doing a couple of things to help all our boys get fully uniformed. We've started a uniform exchange, where people can leave their outgrown uniforms to the pack so we can pass them along to other families in need. One of our new leaders last year showed me the joys of eBay. He outfitted his whole Cub Scout den with uniform shirts and all insignia for about $20 per Boy. He found used uniforms on eBay and a couple of other online marketplaces. You can also talk to your DE. We were able to get some of our boys who expressed a need uniformed by asking.

I was updating my unit's pin this weekend on BeAScout to get ready for fall recruiting. I saw a new option "Apply Status: Inactive". I set it to "Active" and now, my unit pin on BeAScout has the option to "Apply Now." This takes you through an online version of the Youth Application. I've asked about this at my Council, and they were surprised that this feature exists. I went through the application process, and it seems just like the regular paper application. When I was done, I could see the application through the BeAScout admin interface on MyScouting and had the option of Accepting, Declining, or Asking for Clarification on it. If it works, this seems pretty cool. It appears that there is also an online Adult Application. However, I know the BSA's IT systems well. Most of the time, they seem ... lacking. So, has anyone on the forum actually had experience with a prospective member submitting an online application? If so, did it work as smoothly as it seems to, or did you end up haivng to ask for a paper application anyway? How did it manage the payment of registration dues?

I'll agree that the BSA training is off-putting to some. Would we have more leaders without it? Sure, but as the BSA we've already found out what happens when you don't ask enough questions. I recently joined a unit chartered to the local Catholic Church. I was already a Scouter, but still had to take the Church's training. It is required all ALL[\i] volunteers and employees who work with youth in the Church. The training consisted of: A three-hour in-person lecture series A signed pledge to keep all Church youth safe A state police ($20) and FBI ($10) background check that I had to pay for and submit with my volunteer application I took the 3-hour course on a snowy night last winter. There were over 100 people in the room for the course. The archdiocese offered the course once a week throughout their area. It was offered in my county every month. So even with that onerous requirement, there was no shortage of people taking this course. Personally, I think that the BSA is just selling the training the wrong way. As a parent, I'm glad to have taken YPT. I think if the MyScouting system were more user-friendly (I've had several cases with my until leaders where it has taken weeks for a MyScouting account to activate. One required me to call the National Helpdesk to get things straightened out.) My council currently doesn't allow a unit to recharter unless all unit leaders have taken the full compliment of online training courses. That always creates problems for me at recharter time. This year, by the time I got all the new leaders up-to-date, one of my existing leaders had their YPT expire before we could get the paperwork to take. I went to a recruiting session this weekend, and the Council was promoting that during member drives, we should be telling the adults to fill out an Adult Application at the same time that they fill out their son's Youth Application. The Parent's Guide they've prepared tells them that they should be taking YPT and giving the certification to the unit leader.

I'm reading "Scouting for Boys" this summer for the first time, largely motivated by reading some of the comments. BP gives his justification in his Preface, which cleared a lot up for me:

I'd take a multiple-pronged approach to this problem. First, I'd get started with the DL parent who you say is calling others. It sounds like he is a natural leader. Will he step up to become CM? For your description, he's got as least 2 years left, so he could at least give the pack some continuity during his term. If he's taking the initiative to call others, he's probably already got a good idea of who is committed, and could get them to step up and take on a leadership position. Second, I'd call your DE. Loss of a unit will reflect badly on your numbers. He should be working with the Commissioner staff to find this unit a Commissioner who can work with you to help build the leadership team, and possibly build some sustainable systems. I don't know if this is a National program or not, but it seems to me that loss of a unit would be grounds for termination for a DE in my Council. Perhaps there is a way to move your unit to another CO that has members who would be willing to support a Scout unit? Finally, if this Pack is a feeder for your Troop, you should be bringing this up at the Troop Committee meetings to see if there are any committee members who are willing to help get the Pack back on track. (I've been reading "Scouting for Boys" this summer. B-P's vision was to have one committee to support all boys in the same unit. With the problem of constant parent turnover in a Pack, this sounds like a really good idea to me.) This would be especially true if the troop shares a CO with the Pack. If you can't get support from at least two of these groups, or unless you're willing to fall on this sword and take over the unit, I'd let the unit fold. You should talk to your DE about what to do with the funds the unit currently has in their account. I believe when a unit folds these are supposed to transfer to the CO. This is especially true if the CO has put up seed money or made contributions to sustain the unit.

I grew up in Chester County Council and worked mostly at Horseshoe ('88-'92 if memory serves me correctly, which increasingly it doesn't...). I also worked for a traveling camp put on by Penn State for two years prior to that which took me to Rodney and Broad Creek. I'm in Cradle of Liberty these days. Maybe see you at one of the Philly Scout Days this fall.

I consider myself lucky on this one. All districts in my council have two executives: The DE and a Quality Unit Executive. The QUE is a new position being trialed at a few councils specifically to deal with Cub units. Until last year, my district was one of the few with a QUE. Last summer, they hired QUEs for all of the districts. In the past 3 years, we've had the revolving door of DEs. My current one is the record at 14 months. I dropped in at council earlier this week, and based on my conversation with him I wonder if he'll make it to 15 months. Most of the time, we've lost DEs to internal transfers to other districts, which is strange. (The exception is our prior DE who absolutely blew his FOS goal out of the water because of his personal passion and belief in the program. He's now Development Director for the council.) We'll be getting a new SE this fall, so it will be interesting to see how things change when he arrives in September. My QUE on the other hand has been there since I arrived. He had been a volunteer in the District, and was offered a generous early retirement package at his company when the council was trying to fill the first QUE position. He's in his 50's, has at least 1 son in the program, and absolutely lives the program. He's got no ambitions to move up within the BSA's ranks for now, so he's a wonderful resource. Supposedly the QUE program is getting ready to be rolled out nationally.

I wrote my first introductory post on here a few months ago, hours before "The Great Reset." It seems like the forum has stabilized somewhat, so I'll try officially saying "Hello" again. I re-joined Scouting a few years ago when my oldest son entered first grade. By the end of the year, the CM was so completely burned out he took a re-deployment to Iraq instead of re-upping. Nobody else was stepping up to take the job, so I fell on that sword. My wife was lobbying to move to the other Pack in our town. This fall she got her wish: My DE approached me because that Pack had no leadership to step up, so now I'm CM of that pack too! (We meet as one, but file two sets of paperwork.) Between the two units we've got about 50 boys, which I think is about right. I'm getting parents to get more involved and step up as leaders (finally) which is good, but I still don't have 100% of the dens covered or all the committee positions filled. That's my top priority this year. I've got 7 of my unit's parents who signed up to serve as volunteer leaders at my District's evening camp next week, so I'm optimistic that I'll come away from there with more leadership. My other priority is to work with the young Troop that shares a CO with one of my Packs to get them down the path to boy leadership. The current SM is running the Troop like a Pack, and he's getting burned out. Every time I see him, he asks me when my son is moving up. As for my history, I was a Cub Scout and Eagle as a youth, then went on to work at my Council's Summer Camp for a few years. After college, work kept me too busy to be involved with a Scouting unit (my record was 320 nights in hotel rooms when I was 28). I'm happy to be back in Scouting, giving back what my leaders gave me when I was younger.

My district released our Roundtable schedule for the upcoming year a few weeks ago. (The incoming Roundtable Chair has been serving as the training chair for a few years, so it's heavy on training issues). All talks are given by either active Commissioners or unit leaders. The goal is a 30-45 minute presentation with 15-30 minutes of on-topic discussion time afterward. New RT commissioner populated the list by sending a 2 question email to the district leaders: 1) What topics do you want to discuss this year at RT? 2) What topics would you be willing to present? September Cub Scout Leaders: Energizing your Cub Pack and Getting Parents Involved Boy Scout Leaders: The Trail to Eagle October All leaders joint meeting: Working with Scouts with Special Needs and Disabilities November Cub Scout Leaders: Ages and Stages: Youth Development for Cub Scout Leaders Boy Scout Leaders: The Volunteer Recruiting Process December All leaders joint meeting: Bullying: Prevention and Intervention January Cub Scout Leaders: How to Plan a Successful Blue and Gold Banquet Boy Scout Leaders: Developing Youth Leadership within the Unit February All leaders joint meeting: Leave No Trace Awareness in Scouting March Cub Scout Leaders: Where Cubs Camp Boy Scout Leaders: The Annual Planning Process April All leaders joint meeting: Transporting Scouts Safely May Cub Scout Leaders: Electronic Resources for Cub Scout Leaders Boy Scout Leaders: Camporee and Summer Camp Readiness June District Picnic

@KDD: I've got a red white and blue knot on my uniform, and I see a lot of the existing requirements as busy work. The Food Pyramid requirements are my top offenders. This gets beaten into the kids' heads at school, and they come to Scouts to do the exact same projects. These could be replaced with a hands-on activity like tasting different kinds of apples, or using the pinewood derby scale to measure out the amount of sugar in each Scout's favorite food and discussing their findings among the den. Your "Don't tell me to just do this stuff in the book, tell my how to do it and where I can get all this stuff. Tell me how to make it fun.", helped me better understand the goal of the leader materials. It should be: "Tell me what I need and how to do all this stuff in the book, so I can concentrate on making it fun."

My mother-in-law told me a joke the other day that fits perfectly with this thread: A lawyer has a leaky faucet, so he calls the local plumber to get an estimate of how much it will cost to fix. The plumber says, "Well, I recon that will take about 1 hour to fix, so it will be $500." "You charge $500 an hour!" The lawyer cries in amazement, "I'm a lawyer and I don't charge anywhere near that much!" "Neither did I," says the plumber. "That's why I quit being a lawyer and took up plumbing."

I'm a CM and have served as a DL, so this question touched a nerve with me. I've been thinking about this topic for a couple of days because I'm conflicted. On one hand, I can see the wear and tear the program takes on the leaders and even the boys. On the other hand, I can see the eager young parents who would like to get their kids started as early as they can start Tee Ball, Soccer or another sport. I've been mulling this over for a few days, and tonight, while I was mowing the lawn it hit me. The problem with Cub Scouting is that it is full of broken promises, for the boys, parents and especially for the leaders. The boys get enticed in with posters of boys doing cool stuff, but the actual rank program is a dull, unchallenging repetition of their school work. Parents, meanwhile, get enticed by the stated goals of Cub Scouting, which the program doesn't really teach as laid out. Parents also get the constant barrage of requests to help and fundraising. As others have noted on this forum, at the end of Cub Scouts, you end up with passive Scouts who are not prepared for the boy leadership that should be present in Boy Scouts. Meanwhile, as a leader, we're told to "Keep it Simple, Make it Fun", yet the program is anything but simple and fun. Being a DL reminds me a lot of playing D&D: The information you need is scattered through multiple obscure volumes with complex rules. You spend most of your time flipping pages and scribbling notes, instead of slaying dragons. Meanwhile as CM and CC, you've got requirements in the JTE and Scouter Knot programs that aren't reflected at all in the boys requirements. Same with the "fun" things like the Pinewood Derby, and the "not fun" things like tour permits, fundraising and recruiting new volunteers. I think the BSA needs to totally rework the Cub Scout program to make it more like the marketing materials. If it were up to me, I would: Get rid of most of the book work in the ranks, and make sure that each rank requirement teaches or reinforces a core value. For the Lions and Tigers, this should be just participatory, Wolves and Bears should be setting goals and measuring their achievements, and Webelos should be helping to plan the event and/or teach the younger scouts. Have a parental requirement for each rank. You want your son to earn his Bobcat? Then you need to take YPT. You want your son to get his Wolf? Then you need to run a meeting or trip. You want your son to get his AOL? Then you need to have served in a pack leadership role for at least 1 year. Make the fun things in Cub Scouting a core part of the ranks. There are plenty of teachable moments in the Pinewood Derby, Blue & Gold Banquet, and even selling Popcorn. Why aren't these being used? How can service hours, camp attendance, and fitness be requirements for the units, but not required for the scouts? Give the leaders truly helpful meeting plans with all the basics on one page. If more details are needed, give those on supplemental pages that are part of the plans. Make advancement easy to track, and guarantee parental participation.

@jc2008: That's exactly it. I didn't think to look in the multicultural section for this. I thought this used to be accessible from the den leader resources page.