OldGreyEagle

Ah, "measuring" scout spirit in everyday life, we should have a picture in scouting, but what about non-scouting life? During the scoutmaster conference one could ask some of the following questions: 1. What good deed did you do today? 2. Do all your friends know you are a boy scout? 4. How is does a scout show trustworthiness at school? 5. How does a scout show loyalty at school? 6. How does a scout show etc at school? 7. What would each teacher this semester say about you? 8. Do you do any community/church service outside of scouts? 9. How are you reverent 10. Who at school would you most like to be like and why? You dont need references, just ask the questions and "watch" for the answers. I guess you may have the odd scout who hasnt been around much, missing meetings and outings and then you find out he has been working with his church on taking care of Katrina survivors and the like, its up to you to decide what scouting spirit is

Merit Badge Fairs, are they any good? Thats a fair question... After the thread on doing merit badges at meetings and the resulting posts, one does have to ponder the question, why do we have merit badge fairs. Most of what many of us see as the main lessons of the merit badge program is eliminated, the counselor is presented to the scout on a silver if not golden platter. All of the legwork is done for the scout, he just shows up and works on the requirements. I always thought the pre work to the merit badge was one of the main components of the merit badge. Then again, if thats the thought on merif badge fairs, what about merit badges at sumner camp? How different is that?

Beavah, I am not sure what you are talking about exactly. Its in the BSA program that it takes 21 merit badges to get Eagle, that the SPL is to be elected by the troop, that the patrol method is the basic building block of scouting. What differences are you talking about? What are you talking about as not being necessary? I dont understand

Ah, a C. Northcote Parkinson reference I love it. I remember reading an essay of his on the "Rising Pyramid of Organizatoins". I think he looked at how many admirals the royal navy had at the conclusion of WWII and then how many there were in like 1955, I think there were more than twice in 1955 leading Parkinson to wonder why the brits needed more admirals to wage peace than war. I think a scout office should be designed much as a community hospital. Grand enough to inspire confidence in the operation but not so opulent as to render the phrase "not for profit" a travesty

Wonder how many "number" rivers councils there are. you know, Two Rivers, Three Rivers, etc? My money is over 7

Ok, scratch that idea if the new scout campout is scheuled, back to the hike and while they are gaing along, have them pick out wildlife sightings or signs and plants, do the campass part and make it 10 miles so it meets one of the hiking meritbadges or they could meet for a round robin of skills at a park and have a dutch oven dinner

Not to be picky but if they crossed over to the troop, then they are the new scout patrol, or at the very least your newest scouts, not webelos. Our tradition is to have a new scout campout consisting of one night. The meeting before the campout the new scouts are instructed by the older boys on what to bring on a campout. Only the new scouts come along with a few invited older scouts for leadership. On Saturday morning everyone's gear in gone over in the meeting space at the troop to be sure all the necessities are there. This fulfills a rank requirement. Then they go to a nearby park to select a campsite and set up a tent (the same one they will be sleeping in) They learn how to set up a stove and light it and cook lunch. After lunch a round robin sessions of skills is done, knots, first aid, plant/animal ID and then comes dinner. After dinner clean up a little free time and then the older boys/adults do a campfire. They do "repeat after me songs" "repeat after me songs" such as the scout law, Yell out "A scout is trustworthy", they yell back, then "A scout is trustworthy loyal" then work your way all the way up, they are yelling, having fun and learning the scout law. Then a few skits, fun songs and off to sleep. In the morning a scouts own, breakfast, pack up and home.

I am not sure of what I am about to suggest, but I will run it up the flag pole. From what I understand the country has a number of abandoned "ghost" military installations across the country. Many consisting of a goodly amount of land. What if the goverment loaned the use of the land expressly for building new refineries. The new building could be built away from public view so the NIMBY factor would be less. The land would stay the governments, just leased for a dollar a year.

It was my quote and I was wrong, it should have read "everyday life" not "outside of scouts" It was my error and I apologize

Love the xB, its great! I would vote for McCain/Romney, I hope I get a chance to

Yeah, I know the type, like the kind that had valid, stright forward explanations presented to them and still refuse to change. The kind that has had the explanation that Scout Spirit is defined as the way a scout lives the Oath and Law outside of scouts, yet still wants to tie signing off on scout spirit to participation in troop events. The kind that "knows" the way I learnt it is the best way there will ever be. Oh yeah, and certainly the kind that point out how wrong everyone is with a smug, arrogant and pontifical tone (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ok, now we have two threads running concurrently on how its ok to be different in the scouting program. I have seen a lot of thoughts on why its ok to be different, but I am still looking for the example of how one troop does something other than as prescibed in the program and why it works better for them. It could be a troop you "know of" or "heard about", but I want to get a handle on what people think is program flexibility and what is going off the program.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

First its an xB, and its the greatest little car going, I got one of the first in the area. I didnt hear him say he didnt know Abramoff, but it may have been while I was revulsed by the Democrats cheering the fact they defeated the presidents plan to "fix" social security. Now, was the presidents plan the best way to go? I am not sure, but at least he had a plan and opened the door for discussions. What is the democrats plan to fix social security? As far as I can tell the issue is dead in the water. The democrats response was bemoaning the huge deficit, and it is, and how we should not make our chiildren or grandchildren pay for the deficit, I guess thats the plan, our granchildren wont be able to afford paying down a deficit because they will be supporting rotting baby boomers. And least we forget, Bill Clinton called for a regeime change in Iraq, John Kerry and Hilliary are on tape saying Iraq had WMD, so it wasnt just a fabrication of Bush's

Ok, lets say I am tired of being an independent and want to align my self with a political party, please why I should become a Democrat or Republican (yes I know there are others but please) Oh, and one other thing, make your arguments about the party you support, no shots at the other guys allowed

Do you think I can at least rely on ExxonMobil to be investing some of their profits in developing alternative energy sources? Exxon can still be in the energy business and not be in oil, right? If we are funding the R&D that will releive us of foreign oil dependence, then it's all worth it, right?

I think its a fair statement to say that the image of the BSA is lessened because of its stance on gays. The question is, who are the people who feel the image is lessened and are there more or less of them who think the BSA's image is stregthened by the BSA stance on gays. That will be the continual debate. I know I would prefer my son to go camping with BSA trained leaders who happen to be gay than with non BSA trained leaders who are pediphiles. Gay men live amoungst us everyday and manage not to rape little boys, I wonder how that is possible? And what was the biggest mistake the Catholic Church had, that they had pediphiliac priests or that they consistently and systematically sent those priests out amoungst children time and time and time again? Was the scandal really about having gay priests or allowing pediphiliac predators to continue clerical duties? And yes, I think everyone supports Free Speech. I remember back when Linda Ronstandt made an anti Bush statement at a Las Vegas Casino/Hotel. She was booed off the stage and put off the property by security. Hollywood was in an uproar over perceived "censorship" remember it was not a governmental unit that booed her, and was not the police who took her off the property, it was the customers in the concert and the employees of the hotel. In America, I get to say what I want, and I get to face the consequences of what I say. Being an entertainer does not deprive someone of 1rst amendment rights. They get to say what they want. If people are turned off by what is said and decide not to buy the records, go to their movies, attend their concerts, then they are expressing first amendment rights and the censorship/goverment doesnt enter into it. The first amendment is a great thing, it does have two edges that cuts both ways

Interesting thought, what do I want the government to do about it. Its really a philosophical nightmare I really dont want the goverment to "socialize" the oil industry. I would never want that, as I have seen what they did with the railroads and Amtrack and with healthcare. Anyone figure out that Medicare drug program yet? AS far as socialied medicine goes, we have a slice of it already, its called the VA and I havent always been impressed by its machinations. So, if I am not for goverment control, I have to be for the capitalistic approach, whatever the market will bear. But what if the market will bear $10 a gallon for gas? What if it means we drive to and from work, but no where else. We stop and get what food and necessities we need on the way home from work. Restaurants close, Movie theatres close, tourist trade dwindles Oil Compnaies keep making money. What is the answer, I dont know, I wish I did. I do know it insults our intelligience to say that Katrina caused the prices to go up and that our oil producing and delivery infrasctructure has been severely damaged and then record profits are attained? I am not for controls, but I dont want to be trampled either or am I just dreaming?

Alright, lets role up the shirt sleeves and see where another discussion on tweaks go. First the ground rules, I think. We have the BSA MIssion statement The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. The we have the Aims of Scouting The aims of the Boy Scouts of America are to build character, develop citizenship, and foster personal fitness. And finally the methods: ideals the patrol method the outdoors advancement association with adults personal growth leadership development uniform I hope no one thinks the above are suggestions, althought there may be at least one poster. The eight methods are used to deliver the program. Now some consistency is needed. 21 merit badges to reach Eagle. The required badges, the Eagle leadrship project. The competent serving in a position of responsibilty. I see the above as absolutes, then again others may not and I would like to know what people think are tweaks and what are considered out and out going off the program. Its the program to have the Senior Patrol Leader elected and he selects his ASPL and "cabinet" not doing so, is that a tweak or a major divergence A Board of Review and Scoutmaster Conference is not to be a restest, but a discussion of goals and what comes next for the scout, is turning these events into retests a tweak or a major divergence Shuffling patrols for Camporees to have 2 or 3 patrols of 8 each or having 5 patrols with 3-4 in each. Is this a tweak or a variance Why is it important? When I am traveling I take some comfort that all medical dotors passed the same test so I dont have to worry if I am in an inferiorly tested surgical state, or at least not as well tested as others Yeah troops will be different, troops along the Cheasapeake may be much more apt to fish and sail while Troops in the rockies may be more apt to back pack and mountain climb. Established troops may be much more boy lead in the true sense while a troop in its 18th month may have to rely heavily on adults. One of the so far endearing "facts" that the public knows is that an Eagle scout is something. Its not that Eagle scouts of the Mid West are superior to those of the Northeast and the Pacific Northwest ones are wussies. I guess just what is a tweak ? What is an acceptable difference (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Perhaps Trev, but the opportunity to say that Exxon, or any oil company for that matter would go the way of the dinosaurs was too delicious to pass up

Ok SA, I can see where you are comming from. Oil Companies can charge what they charge because the consumer pays for it. As a capitalist I guess I have to accept that. But what fries my hams is when Katrina hits, gas prices go up because pumps are out of order, or because supply pipes are non-functional or soemthing liek that. And people pay it because they think its costing money to supply the gas and voila, record products! Isnt this bait and switch? We have to charge more because of Katrina, oops I guess we didnt?

Semper, I agree with you, I would ride a motorcycle but too many years of working 2-3rd shift in Emergency Rooms took that itch away a long long long time ago. The bike is the way to go as long as the soccer mom in the Escalade or Excursion gives me 18 inches (provided she can see me) Of course the greatest irony will be when Exxon goes the way of the dinosaurs

Ok, I understand that, but then why doesnt competition drive the cost down? Food stores work with a razor thin profit margin, around where I live "club" memberships get you a discount, triple coupon days are held, calls to compare prices are made in the adds with 150% back if you can find an item cheaper I always place my age as being a youth in scouting after Gilwell island but before the demise of the red berets. I rememer gasoline wars, the lowest I ever paid for gas was 18.9 cents a gallon. Do they have gas wars now? I mean other than to see who can raise the price the fastest & highest?

Ok, I know I did this once before, but sometimes I dont know when to quit. ExxonMobil released earnings in excess of 10 billion dollars for the last quarter of 2005. So, despite Katrina, despite the devastation of the Gulf Coast refinery infrastructure ExxonMobil still reports record earnings. How? How can this be? I thought we were paying higher prices at the pumps because it was costing more to get the gas to us. How is this not price gouging? Last time we talked about this, I remember a comment that actually the oil compnaies dont determine oil prices as its set by OPEC, ok, but then how do they run away with record profits at a time when gas prices crippple some families? Where is the outrage on this? Democrats want to send a message to the public about Alito being unfit for America, why cant they lead a charge to figure out why oil campanies can make record profits in a time of "crisis. If they are for the little people, lets see some action from them The repulicans say they are for traditional family values and really arent the friend of big business, yet I dont see outrage from their sector. WHy is this behavior accepted?

"Y'all liberals do keep this Georgia boy laughing!" See now, the word "liberals" is plural, so if that line was meant for Lisabob alone, it might have read Lisabob, your liberal views do keep this Georgia boy laughing, but thats not how the line reads. Liberals is a plural so it could be taken that all liberals keep you laughing, which is what I think John Daigler was reacting too. If all liberals keep you laughing that means you don't try to communicate your ideas or listen to their ideas, you just laugh. and besides, a Liberal could answer like this: What do ya mean, I make you Laugh ? Let me understand this cause, I don't know maybe it's me, I'm a little confused maybe, but I make you Laugh how ? I mean, I make you Laugh like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh... I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean I make you Laugh How do I make you Laugh ?

When you do a merit badge during a Scout meeting, look at all the phases of the merit badge program that are eliminated. The scout doesnt look over the merit badge list, he just gets the merit badge du jour The scout doesnt go to the scoutmaster and get a signed blue card and the name of an approved scoutmast, the counselor is assigned The scout doesnt call the counselor of otherwise make arrangements for meeting, that all taken care of before the sessions start. The whole dynamic of what the merit badge program is about it is short circuited when you do them at meetings PLUS the scouts dont learn what it take to run interesting meetings.