Pack18Alex

I'm contemplating giving the new Wolf Den, Arrow Heads for their Tiger Beads, to show it off, and then again with the wolf ones this year. It's technically not in the rules, but people have said that "back in the day" of Wolf/Bear/Lion, you had arrow heads for Lions... We wouldn't be technically in uniform, but it might make an impression on the incoming Scouts and get them to want them. I also got my son and I Red Vests to put all the "event" badges that we got on last year, in the hopes that it motivates more participation in our Unit. The Patch Glue solves the sewing issue, even if you glue on, then sew them in place. I remember all those Electives as a core part of cub scouting when I was a kid, I'm saddened to see them replaced with the Academic/Sports "bling" that seems to be over powering this part of the program. At Day Camp I spoke to one of the leaders in another pack whose kids I had. They "crossed over" their Tigers to Wolves as soon as they completed the Tiger program, and were almost done with the Wolf Trail before summer, they also did 10 Belt Loops that year. That's all well and good, but it means that any new Wolf Signups they have will need to be in a separate Den or do their Rank separately. My boys LOVED the crafts from doing the electives in Tiger, and the Wolf ones are a good mixture of activities (some overlapping with belt loops, some not) and crafts. I just fear that the program, as we've been running it, is morphing into a mediocre sports program and not a great scouting/Americana program. KDD, what's your thoughts?

I remember as a kid learning tennis that we'd go to a place with a wall and hit the ball against the wall. There was a drawn line for where the net would be. Perhaps that would be how you do them separate? If it's you and your son, just do your best and look on you tube for drills. I managed to drill kids through volleyball pin at Day Camp... definitely a paper pin, pretty sure none of them can play, but they earned the pin. I practiced some different leadership models at day camp, and pencil whipping was efficient, the boys will look like war heros covered in metal, but I'm not sure what they learned... figured better to learn these lessons on my son getting a cheesy pin instead of a cheesy eagle scout...

When I was a boy, you earned your rank and 1 to 3 arrow heads that you proudly wore on your uniform. The book hasn't changed, but I never see them in the real world. I see belts full of loops, and Packs that meet more or less together and do more loops and less specific electives. I've also ssince a plastic "badge holder" holding everyone's rank badges in plastic instead of on the uniform. With my Tiger Den, I got everyone through 18 electives, my son got active at home and earned 4 beads, the rest earned 1 (and I learned for our Pack and how the Jewish Calendar affects us, we're going to give Tiger Beads as earned since we complete the rank too late in the year to have time to wear them). For my two Wolf Scouts that were at Day Camp for two weeks, we did 30 electives across them. I love the Loop/Pin Program, but I fear it's crowding out the Cub Scout Crafts that were the core of the program. I love that we encourage the boys to explore new things, but how can "10 Electives for 1 Arrow" compete with 45 minutes for a Belt Loop or 90 minutes for a Pin? With the Tigers, you need the parents in on it (they can barely read at the beginning of first grade), but I need my Wolf's to take interest and the Bears to take ownership (in preparation for Webelos)

I think people just like to complain. If you're not having fun, get out. Too much focus on adult issues, but this forum is a place for Scouters to vent. OTOH, I've gotten great ideas here I bring to my unit.

I'm sure that there are lots of focus groups and research projects on what integration would do. Hashed out elsewhere, most think cubs would be easy to integrate, troop level would be a disaster. Gender integration, in my opinion could be done right, with single-sex Dens integrated Packs for cubs since it's such a long (especially with Lions added) program and families would likely have overlap, which would help on the leadership front. Separate Troops by gender or at least single sex patrols, migrating into venturing. BSA's programming as such a high adult:youth ratio for this sort of program, integration would help. I think Venturing as an intro to Scouting is a failed model because it starts to late, but who knows, people around Scouting much longer than me would have a better idea. We'll see what happens, either way, I'm running programs that I think will be excellent for my son, my wife is running programs for my daughters, and I look forward to being able to run a program for both as my daughters age into Venturing.

Well, how do you think Council would respond if they saw me at a public event, in Class A Uniform, smoking a cigar and drinking a bourbon? They would throw me out for engaging in conduct not becoming of BSA while representing BSA. If I'm in civilian attire, go into a bar, and smoke and drink, nobody from BSA will care, because I'm not representing BSA. We have made it pretty clear that we are happy to be active and involved in our District/Council, making a "Do Your Best" level of effort for participation, and they have been great at involving us in stuff, including scheduling around Jewish holidays major and minor. That said, I won't dispatch my non-observant leadership to meetings on Yom Tov (Roundtable overlapped with the 7th day of Passover last year, we did not attend), I will not send representatives from our Unit on Shabbat. In fact, when we needed to straighten out our registration at a Camporee, one of my non-observant leaders offered to go and correct the paperwork, I declined, walked down myself, and got help from one of the leaders that knew the drill and wrote down my verbal instructions. So I'd consider a leader in my Unit in uniform attending a district/council event with our numbers on, violating Shabbat or eating Treif, similarly to how other units would respond to such a leader drinking, doing drugs, or otherwise acting in an unsavory manner.

The REASON that Council can even lose things is the primitive paper process. We turn all paper to council in electronically via PDF and keep a copy on our system. I see zero reason to be storing carbonless paper for BSA. An online system would be even better. They can have an offsite backup. We could archive a PDF of everyone in the Unit annually. Paper to sit on someone's desk at Council for months on end it stupid.

So my daughter in the Girl Scouts has a Vest back covered with Patches earned from joining her brother at the Campouts and other big activities. GSUSA guidelines use the pack for "extra" patches. So my wife and mother in law are sewing up a nice cotton "Red Vest" for him to put the rest on, and making one for me. Why? We're trying to encourage participation. We used to give out the event Patches at the event when people left, this year we gave them out for one event at the next Pack Meeting, and the boys that didn't go were jealous and wanted to know how to get one. We're hoping that with the Red Vest (and others will follow our lead), the boys will push their parents to take them to more of the events where they'll get Temp Patches. Same thing with Belt Loops. Our five boys that went to Scout Camp earned a TON of loops/pins. Hoping that my showing them off at the August Pack Meeting (being earned), and September (being worn), we'll get boys interested for next summer... That's the hope. Even if my wife teases me that I look like an African Dictator (with the WWI-era UK Style Uniforming we have, we look more British Colonial than Spanish, but that's a minor nitpick).

I think that part of this is that the old timers at BSA national came up in a world where they were Scouts in a local Troop was sponsored and met at their school, but everyone was some form of Protestant in their group, but maybe 2 or 3. In their mind, we're all still like that, so someone to coordinate the Religious Medals for the 2 to 3 Protestant Churches in town makes logical sense... And maybe deal with the occasional Jew/Catholic in their midst. At the Cub Level, the Den Meeting is appropriate. At the troop level, wouldn't 1-on-1 like a Merit Badge Councilor make sense, so in that case, I'd want the Councilor to be registered and background checked. I think in the real world, we're either in secular Units that don't do much about the religious medals beyond tell boys they exist, or in religious Units that are (or probably ought to be) pushing the medal of our religious institution. But I see how someone at national would think that all Scouts go to different Churches on Sunday and this is a way to get them to earn their medals and get more buy in from the Churches. None of this is necessary, Scouting survived 100+ years without it, and doesn't really matter. However, given the sheer number of religious emblems recognized by BSA and the nature of our Units, I think that it might help SOME units increase their medal achievement, which helps them sell medallions and knots and double down on the religion. Also, being slightly cynical, having an Adult at the Unit level in touch with various religious groups is probably helpful for getting buy-in for Scouting and helping BSA get new COs. I think that this program, if implemented, helps BSA national, helps a small fraction of units where this is helpful, and hurts nobody.

I think it depends on the culture of your unit. For Basementdweller's unit, it's pointless. For my unit, we have been attempting to fill liaison positions to groups we work with so not everything falls on the same few people. For Jewish Scout units, our unique nature (the Jewish Committee on Scouting, NOT our religious organizations) is responsible for the program, this is potentially useful. For blw2, this is also useful. His example of his wife is very telling, she "works for" the Church as the REligious Medals Coordinator, and lacks a BSA position. As BSA would like all adults that interact with the children in any official capacity to have Youth Protection, BSA training, and of course pay their annual fee, this makes sense. It encourages someone like his wife that does the Religious Medals for the Catholic Church to be registered BSA in this new position... they aren't necessarily a committee member, but they can wear a BSA uniform with this badge and their Troop/Pack number when reviewing the medals with the Cub, Boy, and Girl Scouts. I mean, if Mrs. Blw2 is meeting with Cub/Boy/Girl Scouts, I'd want her to be registered (and background checked) by BSA and GSUSA, so this is a way of making it official that she should be a registered Volunteer with BSA. I mean, every Camporee has a badge, it's not like National invested a million dollars in this new position. Most Units won't have a need for it. Units with a focus on religious medals might have a use for it. If you are making a push for religious knots and have a mixed faith Unit, then this person can be responsible for gathering the relevant information and contacts for the relevant religious medals. I understand why BD considers this ASM programming, and he wouldn't use this position. It's a niche position, but what's wrong with that. Every unit is different. If some of our units make use of these things, good for National giving us tools to make the program better. If not, move along, and don't buy the patch. My Pack DOES in fact have a Chaplain. We have an Orthodox Rabbi involved with our unit that we consult on various issues that will crop up with Kasher food and Shabbat issues during camping. Do most Packs have Chaplains, of course not, most Packs don't need them. The boys are never away from their parents more than a few hours, you don't need pastoral help on them. Does the existence of a Chaplain position in BSA impact BD in any way, of course not, but it helps my unit. Not every position is useful for EVERY units. Dismissing it as "type A" is unnecessary. For some the medals are an instrumental part of their program. For most, it's an afterthought or ignored. For some of us, it's underutilized and we'd like to make a big push for it. This sort of a thing by BSA helps some without hurting anyone, that's much better than stupid press releases about membership policies that just F-up our recruiting.

Alex's unit is an independent unit (not chartered to a synagogue) operated under Jewish auspices (Sabbath-observant, Kosher). He needs a liaison to the council Jewish Committee on Scouting. Thanks for clarifying that. KDD, the Jewish medallions are issued by the Jewish Committee on Scouting, which is non-denominational, while all Jewish organizations are affiliated with a major Jewish denomination. As a result, the JCoS plans events for ALL Scouts, most of whom are NOT Sabbath-observant or Kosher, and has historically made accommodations for Kosher Scouts. With the growth or our Jewish Units down here, there is an influx of Sabbath/Kosher Observant Jews, which is making planning joint Jewish functions more challenging. With many of my Scouts attending Jewish parochial schools and living in HEAVILY Jewish neighborhoods with a HEAVY Orthodox tilt, many parents think it's important for them to interact with the outside world, which Scouting does for many of them. So working with the Jewish Committee to plan things so we can participate in them lets our Scouts interact with Jewish Scouts that might not live/act like they do. Working with our District/Council to attend events lets our Scouts interact with Gentile Scouts. So just like we attend Roundtable (and therefore liaison with the District/Council), we attend the JCoS meetings to liaison with Jewish Scouting. Since I don't want to do it all myself, I try to get parents to agree to pick up various things, and going to JCoS meetings (3-4/year) is less intensive than roundtable. So I have a liason to the Jewish Committee on Scouting. And now I can possibly get them to wear a special patch and represent both of our Units as we're working on a merged committee structure.

I think it's a great idea if you make it a committee role and make it easier to share a committee between units in a CO. Honestly, we've been trying to fill a liaison role to our religious committee, this (with a patch) makes sense.

As a Jew, I really do not like Jewish efforts to fight public displays of religion, I think that they fostered anti-semitism and were obnoxious. I also think that Holocaust memorials are bad for American Jews, but that's another topic... institutional American Judaism clearly disagrees with me. But short of a significant sum of money that would be "establishment" I find it best to ignore these things. OTOH, I take advantage of public parks more than most, we all have government programs that we benefit from more than others.

I mean, the government spends money and gives land to lots of things I don't care for or agree with, and some things that I care about and agree with. Historically, that was seen as legislative prerogative, if you don't like how to government squanders funds, vote the rascals out. Making everything litigable is rather sad.

Many Jewish friends that considered themselves atheist/agnostic. Many wore a Star of David necklace (particularly when going out). Never saw one where the A/Atomic symbol on a necklace. In fact, the Chai (meaning life) necklaces were more popular amongst the more affiliated Jews, the Star of David was more popular amongst the non-affiliated Jews.

The oldest Jewish Religious symbol, the Menorah (7 branch from the Temple, not the familiar 9 branch Chanukiah that comes out Chanukah Time) is a symbol of the Temple. A Torah Scroll would be a good one, usually depicted as an Ashkenzai Scroll unwound (see scrollk.org who uses this as their logo) works. A mezuzah cover would be a religious symbol of sorts. The Shield of David is a national symbol, not a religious one. The Shield of David represents Jews from the Ultra-Orthodox to the atheist/agnostic Jew. It doesn't represent ANYTHING in the religion.

The six pointed Star of David may be colloquially called a "Jewish Star" but it is NOT a religious symbol in any way shape or form. It is the symbol that is traditionally dated back to David's Reign (and presumably Solomon's as well), basically an ancient Israelite Heraldry symbol. Judaism, the religion of the Jewish People, dates make to the Kingdom of Judah, after the Unified Kingdom split into the northern Kingdom of Israel and the southern Kingdom of Judah. All recordings of the Second Temple period, etc., are from the Kingdom of Judah. The Star of David is a recognized symbol of Jewish people-hood, both by Jews (hence the inclusion on the State of Israel's flag), and its enemies (the yellow star forced on Jewish Citizens during the Nazi German government and its vassal states). Prohibiting a Star of David as a religious symbol or a state endorsement of religious is simply preposterous, it's a symbol with zero religious significance. When King David reigned, there were gentile inhabitants in his Kingdom (hence all the ancient Jewish laws governing treatment of gentiles within a Jewish Kingdom), and his son, King Solomon, had many wives from surrounding tribes/kingdoms, many of which were gentiles. It's a symbol of Jewish sovereignty and peoplehood, with no religious significance whatsoever. And in the case of the Holocaust, Jewish peoplehood, and not Jewish religion, was under attack... so its inclusion serves a secular purpose, while showing an Eastern European Jews with side curls would not.

Sign up as a Den Leader, add a third Den to the mix. 6/den is a much better number, I had 5 Tigers with no ADL and went crazy. The boys that started in the 12 person Den a few years back all dropped out. More Dens = more Fun, you can do field trips together, you can plan "big" projects together, but you can do inter-Den competitions, show off Den Flags, etc. I'd love to start splitting Dens instead of Tiger Den, Wolf Den, Bear Den, Webelos Den, requries recruiting.

Should Trayvon Martin survived being shot and been on trial for Assault and Battery and Attempted Murder, he would have a SYG defense for being followed and fearing for his life. The PROBLEM with the TM SYG claim is the testimony of his friend, who told the court that he told her he was "safe" and "steps away" from his home. The fight took place near GZ's vehicle, NOT near the home. So if GZ gets out of the vehicle, TM is right there and clocks him, I think TM has a SYG defense (which, by my understanding in Florida, doesn't remove GZ's unless GZ broke the law in creating the situation, which he didn't do). However, if TM chose to "retreat" and gets home, then returns to confront GZ, then TM doesn't have a SYG defense. Given the lack of evidence, my guess is that they are both acquitted from lack of evidence, unless you can recreate his location from phone GPS data. SYG removes the obligation to retreat, but not the option. Once you retreat from the conflict, you no longer have a SYG claim if you counter-attack. GZ's story: got out of car, followed, told to not follow, was returning to vehicle and looking around for an address when sucker-punched by TM. RJ's story: TM was scared, got home and was "safe," then went quiet and became out of breath (presumably running), and asked GZ why he was being followed. The "Get Off Me" comment is the only evidence that GZ started the physical altercation. However, if his hoodie was grabbed, he has non-lethal self defense. It's unclear that TM reasonably feared for his life, if so, he may SYG and attempt to kill GZ. If he didn't, he doesn't have the right to escalate to lethal force.

It would be nice if you could create multiple designated meeting places that don't require tour plans. However, how about a push to create PDF Fill-in Forms for all the forms available as PDF? I have a Mac program, PDF Signer, that lets me type anywhere, but it's a pain in the butt. None of us have type-writers. Florida we have standardized medical forms (blue and yellow forms) that all youth programs use, except BSA. So I show up to camp orientation with B&Y forms and was told to come back with the BSA forms... The awful Charter/Advancement web software that rather than being a standardized web form, is instead a mess of Internet Explorer 6 specific Javascript.

When I looked into it a few years ago, I was actually somewhat shocked that Florida wasn't an open carry state... Florida tends to like to preempt gun regulations at the state level, and we have a VERY diverse state. We have a couple of enclaves with tons of transplants from the Northeast or Midwest, a chunk of the state that is part of the deep south, and the Miami area which is as cosmopolitan as it comes. I'm pretty sure people in the greater Orlando area and north would be happy with an open carry situation, while Miami is terrified of it. Legal citizens with concealed weapons make liberals uneasy, but don't actually create war zones. Open carry in a rural area is fine, open carry in an area with tons of undocumented residents, multiple language communities that don't communicate, etc, is a recipe for disaster. An armed society may be a polite society, but an armed black society, armed hispanic society (Spanish speaking only), and armed creole community, all coexisting in a small area might not be polite, because they don't understand each other. But SYG and what it means definitely depends on the rest of the state's laws.

SYG only applies to legal firearms. If you have an illegal gun, or a gun in an area you are not legally permitted to, SYG does not apply. In Florida, open carry is prohibited. If you purchase a firearm and are transporting it home without a CCW, there are rules for transporting and storing it. Once inside your home, you do not need a CCW. So why SYG makes no reference to a CCW, in states like Florida without open carry, it's defacto CCW. Within your home it's Castle Doctrine, NOT SYG, and Castle Doctrine is dramatically stronger... In the case of Castle Doctrine, you're presumed to have a reasonable fear, whereas in SYG, you need to demonstrate the reasonable fear. I'll admit I'm not entirely sure what the long gun carry rules are in Florida, I believe it is slightly looser, based upon a presumption of hunting. So if you are in a public place, and standing your ground, it's almost always with a concealed weapon. I'm sure we can envision scenarios where a non CCW permit holder could stand their ground, but it's pretty theoretical.

I see SYG it as a response to the government by tort we were suffering with... where a perfectly legal action becomes a nightmare because of the legal system making it possible for a well funded opponent to run up a 6 figure legal bill on your behalf to defend yourself. Almost none of the gun crime we have is related to licensed concealed weapons, and SYG only applies if the weapon on legal, therefore a CCW permit holder. If you carry a CCW, you are registered and finger printed, in a way the general public is not. It may seem like a license to kill, but it also lets those get the benefit of the doubt in return for voluntarily registering with the state.

Came into a Camping with Friends Cub Scout Pack... where doing Rank Advancement was "doing Book Stuff." To make it worse, at the Cub level, the physical work is all on the leaders, which made this grueling. With Cubs, our group turns over quickly, the older leader was on board being more "book stuff." The younger Dens are by the Book, the older Dens are less formal. I don't worry about them, they'll do what they do then cross over... I'd put the older 8-10 Scouts in their own patrol, let them do what they want. Over time, they'll be irrelevant. And if the other Scouts are off having fun and Scout like and they are camping with friends, they'll either take an interest and get involved, or they won't. You can't force them to Scout, but if they come to things, have fun, aren't disruptive, pay their dues, and sell Camp Cards, what's the downside to them being around? Size is its own benefit, and the older scouts who have been there can go, have fun. If they are disruptive, well, put them in their own patrol, and if they don't hit their scout craft benchmarks, they can't come on certain activities.

Plenty of Drop Off from Cubs to Troop as well. BSA leadership doesn't care and still focuses on the Troop. The only division growing is Venturing, and they still are focused entirely on the troop. That's a BSA cultural issue. GSUSA is focusing Younger and Younger, Daisy starts in Kindergarten (and you can start in Pre-K once you hit 5), and they are working on a Pre-K/4 year old program. At Juniors+ (about the same age as the BSA Troop) you can use the Patrol method for organizing, or something called a Town Hall Method. Prior to that, they use the Girls Decide Troop method, which looks kind of like a Den only with more consensus building. Also here, the Service Unit does events every month (the equivalent of our district), so instead of individual Troops planning stuff, most of them just piggy back on the district. But you are correct, BSA Councils (at least mine) are very understaffed with professionals, but the professionals we have are front line. The GSUSA Council seems to have a lot of employees, but the employees aren't front line with Scouts, not sure what they are doing.