Krampus

We've allowed everyone else in the door, why not girls? You can't argue equal rights but then bar someone because of gender. How's that any different than barring someone for any other reason?

Since the DB is back up and running (12/2/15) I have noticed that when you are quoted or mentioned in a post the system does not alert you anymore in the "Notifications" area.

I don't see that at all.  Most of the boys I know do the last ones fast. 

ROFL....we have guys who STARTED their last MB as Scouts, and finished as Eagles. That's a long MB. Usually 4-5 guys a year in that boat.

I assume that this means that the SM and ASMs are supposed to precluded from the EBOR.  That would be a change in 100% of the EBOR that I have been in.

 

How about Committee Members?

 

Also, who is supposed to make sure that this is adhered to?  The District Eagle Representative (who sets up the board)?  We have 2 of them and they both apparently do not follow this rule.

You are the SM, so the Scout's preparation for rank advancement falls to you, as does everything up to the BOR..

Adherence to the BOR process usually falls to the advancement chair. The SM should always know how the advancement chair will handle BORs, who will be on them, questions, process, etc.

EBORs are handled by the advancement chair and, in most troops I know, an "Eagle Coordinator" or advisor of some kind. Most units I know have parents or committee members sitting in on BORs. Same for EBORs but with the addition of the district rep.

I always use the Guide to Advancements. Carry it with me (electronically). If anyone tells me something that does not sound right I consult the GTA. If it does not corroborate what someone says, I show them or ask them to point to the GTA section backing up their claim.

SMs can sit in on BORs if allowed, but we usually don't say a thing. Parents are not allowed. 

I vote for the last MB before Eagle. For some reason, whatever MB it is, it takes YEARS to earn!!!!

That article shows a truly labyrinthine process. Is all that really necessary? Seems like an awful lot of attention at the national level by people who don't know the boy, the family, the community, and weren't present for any of the advancement work or the EBOR for that matter. Does it really make sense for national to be so involved? What do they really add to the process that hasn't already been done by the council or local level? Again, is all that really necessary?

 

P.S. what would be wrong with the date of 'making' Eagle being the same as 'becoming Eagle'? Does this really have to be so confusing?

It is a control thing. In reality the dates are the same. You make Eagle on the date of your EBOR. You become Eagle once the paperwork has cleared national, but it is retroactive to your EBOR. So, in essence, you are an Eagle-Elect after your EBOR until validated....much like you are not President until the Electoral College casts their vote. The difference obviously is that President is not retroactive to the election.

Looking at how Balkanized the councils are with how policy is implemented, national has stepped in to better control the process. It is not all that confusing when you think about it.

Eagle Scout: So am I an Eagle now?

Advancement Chair: No. Your paperwork needs to be confirmed by national. Once that is done you WILL be an Eagle and the effective date of your Eagle rank is today, at your EBOR.

Eagle Scout: Can I get my badge and wear it?

Advancement Chair: After national confirms your rank. Then you can take the paperwork they will send and go to any scout shop and get your Eagle badge. Or you can wait until your ECOH...your choice.

It may sound confusing, but it is really very simple.

Our unit does this:

• Scouts asked to review the position descriptions and job summary prior to submitting candidacy. 
• Scouts nominate themselves. SPL and PL, APL, PQM and PScribe are elected. All other roles appointed. 
• Complete a quick form for which three positions they want in rank order. Brief statement why they want the role and what they will do if elected. PLs and SPLs asked to have a one minute speech prepared.
• Complete a personal objectives list for the position they want. Role description tells them their role, the personal objectives forces them to develop measurable milestones for their role.
• If elected they fill the role immediately. There is a transition of 1-2 weeks between leaders.
• New SPL meets with SM to review appointed positions and assignments made.
• Personal objectives are used to remind Scouts of their "campaign promises" and how to measure if they've been successful in their role.
• SMCs for leaders who are struggling or need help. Patrol Advisors assigned to all patrols.
• PLs and SPL have a copy of the Leader Handbook.

That's pretty much it.

I'm not sure what if any involvement I will have as a Scouter, since they seem to already have a pretty full adult roster.  I hope to help if and where I can though.  We'll see....

I'd ask what they need. On the outside it can look like everything is run well and they don't need help. The reality typically is that the unit can use you somewhere, be it as an MBC, TC member, ASM or just an active registered parent.

My unit actively solicits parents to get involved from the get go. We have some working with the boys to run service projects, hold MB classes or leverage adult interests that might converge with Scout interests. Just last weekend one quite, new dad who did know much about Scouts stepped up and ran an MC class in automotive maintenance. It was the best class I had seen in a long time. Very organized and the kids (all ages) LOVED it!!!

Help. Don't assume all is well.

I'll just leave this little doozy from the National Council for all y'all to read here...

 

When Do You Become An Eagle Scout?

Sounds like that council confused the official date of making Eagle with the official date you become Eagle. Isn't your date of award your EBOR date, but you are not officially conferred the title until you pass national. So, you can have your EBOR on 1/11/16 but you cannot wear your Eagle nor have your ECOH until after national confirms your rank...which could be serveral weeks later.

Thank you Terry, for your efforts!

We need to chip in to put this in the cloud so this does not happen again.

Anything down this long and @@Stosh has probably forgotten how to use a computer... 

Funny....if a unit folds their property goes to the CO *unless* it is real estate, which would then go to BSA national. Talk about a land grab!!

Every troop will have *some level* of perceived or real adult over involvement. That's the nature of the beast.

I've left the decision to my son. He had a list of things he was looking for and so did I. He visited 9+ troops. He knew immediately which one he liked. They were not as boy-led as I would have liked but they hit on nearly all the other key points.

Knowing how you feel, I can tell you our unit is ALWAYS open to change. Too many parents either don't care OR want to help but want their ideas heard. We try to make it clear during recruiting that, just because we've always done things that way does not not mean we are not open to new ideas.

I really like the line "The wife is another matter." I think that's the best line in the whole thing.

 

But RememberSchiff, I am curious about something. You gave Mike Rowe's answer to the "gun" item, but when I look at the document itself, that line is garbled and only the last word ("family") appears. But you have the whole thing. Where did you get it from?

His FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/posts/1071145119562297

HOWEVER I'd love to strangle the SPL at the moment   

Only had one of those in the last 8 years. He lasted six months. The boys were glad he moved on.

The problem is that the parents in my troop committee are confusing thier Cub Scout experance, where the adults did everything and the boys just showed up and got a badge, for Boy Scouting, where the boys are supposed to run the show.  I have several NYLT older scouts who are trying thier best to lead the troop and I have to constantly explain to the parents why I am not "doing" anything.  It's what they don't see that they don't understand.  That's why i signed them up for the troop committee, and started training them.  If after imparting knowledge they still don't get it, the patch is still on the table, because i don't want to be a Super Cubmaster.

I have a few folks like that. It took a while to get to the root of their "issue" with the boy-led process and the perceived lack of input/activity from the SM. We found the following with our parents:

• They understood boy-led, they just struggled with when adults should step in. Some felt adults should step in sooner to teach, instruct, advise. Took a while of them observing to see how the "old guys" did it.
• There were some good ideas they had about resolving their leftover Cub Scout Parenting/Leader nerves. We assigned them as MBCs or teaching the Scout Instructors. This allowed them to "get their teaching/control fix" without impacting the boy-led process. It also helped them to understand the boys can actually do so much more than they (the new parents) think.
• We invite them to PLC and have them monitor how it works. They see very quickly that the boys CAN manage without the parents.
• We held unofficial adult happy hours (sans uniforms) to discuss ways adults can get involved without poisoning the whole boy-led approach. Special projects, helping to identify new locations for camping, new activities, getting trained to support, etc.

Not sure if this helps but it sure helped us. We basically found out that they were very active adults who were frustrated at not feeling useful. After discussing with them ways they could get involved but still maintain the boy-led focus, we all found our happy place.

Yes, we have to revisit this every year when new parents come in, so we've made it part of our new parent orientation.

Councils ARE the CORs.  How would National justify that change?   

I assume they would make a change as to how they are organized.

I am of two minds if this is true. Part of me thinks a more centralized approach might be better. The other part of me knows how poorly national already mucks things up.

Assuming BSA could run itself more efficiently if it was more centralized, these types of business decisions might be better made by paid executives far removed from the local politics. However, I think we'd want to see national investing as much time and energy in promoting, building and maintaining their councils (and properties) too.

I'd welcome BSA taking a more corporate approach to management...again, assuming they could avoid putting their collective heads you know where.

The problem was the teacher in charge who had the "how do you know until you try" attitude, which assumes that the child in question has never tried the skill before in a different class, group, or medical setting.  My child's autism might be new to you, but it's definitely not new to us. The teacher we dealt with who had this attitude completely ignored my concerns as a parent, and pretty much made my son miserable. 

I have a nephew on the scale. I think that every kids needs to stretch his boundaries in order to grow, however, any teacher who ignores parental concerns -- especially with a child with special needs -- is doing the child (and parents) a disservice.

I think there are people out there who *think* they know better, think the parents have been too "easy" on their kid and if only they pushed him/her a bit more they could do better. I have found people like this usually have been watching too much Dr. Phil and have no clue what it is like to raise a child on the spectrum.

Go with your gut.

The program had its own website, I think because they didn't want it publicized outside of scouting. I thought someone here may know something since it is, you know, a scouting related forum.

 

The hikerdirect.Com is what I was suggesting looked sketchy because of the redirect and fact that it doesn't appear to bear any affiliation to Alps Mountaineering.

We just bought 10 replacement tents from them last year. We contacted them directly and got a steep discount. Great tents and VERY durable. We have 30 in supply and it is amazing how rugged they are. 11 camp outs a year, loaners for NYLT, OA, high adventure, etc., and they are still going after nine years!!!

The issue is not partisan. It is parental, on both the left and right.

The commentary comes from a dean of a very liberal school, in a very liberal city, in a very liberal state. It comes from quarters known for pushing an agenda that blames others for the individual's mistakes; therefore, the complaint is ironic.

I didn't say it was a partisan issue. I simply said that its ironic a dean from a liberal school, city and state that promotes this sort of self-indulgence is finally seeing the light.

Mike is classic. I wish he'd run for president. It would refreshing to get someone with wit, intelligence and humility in the White House.

"Zealous Parenting , and its Fallout"  /Emma Brown,  Washington Post, Monday 19 October 2015

 

"Julie Lython-Halms noticed a disturbing trend during her decade as a dean of freshmen at Stanford University. Incoming students were brilliant and accomplished and virtually flawless , on paper. But with each year, more of them seemed incapable of taking care of themselves."

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/former-stanford-dean-explains-why-helicopter-parenting-is-ruining-a-generation-of-children/ar-AAfyij9

 

"MOMMY!  That professor won't PASS me !!"

I find the irony that this is coming from a Stanford dean --  given the political leaning of that campus, city, state -- delicious!

You can't complain about the problem when you are part of the infrastructure enabling it, Ms. Halms..

Why wouldn't it work with committee members?

 

First of all if they are trained, they should know their boundaries and if not, they need to be.

 

@@Stosh, you and I both know it takes FAR longer to correctly train a 40 year-old than it does a 14 year-old.

Every example you cited is a for-profit company.  Carson was in business to make money for himself.  Ditto McMahon.  WSJ and Time exist to add to the shareholders bottom line of Newscorp and Time-Warner, respectively.

Non-profits need to raise money too! Whether the money is to cover profits or operating costs it should not matter. There's nothing in free market economics that differentiates between for-profits and non-profits.

Bryan is one of the principal public faces of the Boy Scouts of America, a non-profit corporation whose purpose is "The purpose of this corporation shall be to promote, through organization and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using methods which are now in common use by the Boy Scouts."

So Bryan is helping to promote the purpose of BSA by helping units work with "other agencies" to raise money to support their (the unit's) program and the overall goals of Scouting. I see nothing in that statement that says, "Thou shall not accept money from sponsors".

Unlike firearms, museums, camping supplies, and even coca-cola, this was a sponsored post.  That, to me, implies express approval of the product.

So did McMahon really give his approval for Alpo? Did he even own a dog? Rhetorical, so forget that.

BSA allowing rifle or popcorn companies to sponsor ads is just as much as an endorsement of their product as using Bryan's space. Maybe Bryan eats the candy. Maybe he has more popcorn tins in his house than a hoarder. Maybe he protects that house with his BSA OA Henry Rifle.

How does Bryan's endorsement cheapen his opinions or commentary? Are you going to question his credibility when he advises you to take WRFA prior to going to Philmont?