Krampus

Krampus, this is truly the "sum of the whole matter."

I live in north Texas. You should see the HQs and scout shops we have! And then you should see the balance sheet of the council and how much money they have in the bank. Then go to the council camps. As you drive in notice the new training center they have built which is only used for WB and staff offices. Drive by the open-air dinning hall which reaches 103F or higher during summer camp. Then "do your duty" in one of the lovely trap johns at camp; recall the lovely aroma during summer camp. As you're doing that remind yourself of the money you give each year to FOS and in dues...and wonder why some of all that money council has cannot be spent on YOUR comfort and not the comfort of the paid staff.

 

Here's a few pics so you don't have to use your imagination except for the smell. BTW, the staff and offices are very modern, have A/C and flush toilets.

 

 

I'm thinking there's a mountain being built here because of the inflexibility of the adults to make the course corrections.  I'm thinking the "hardships" this is going to place on boys isn't going to amount to much in the off chance that some boy isn't going to make his Eagle.

 

 

Correct. There's already a spreadsheet someone created to easily track the two groups. It is no different than 2009/2010 changes. We managed through those just fine.

Our district had roundtable last night with the council key 3, the VP of Programs and the camping and properties chair.  One of these 5 is a paid professional, the other 4 are volunteers.

Much of their visit was to speak about plans for possibly selling one of our camps and money.

 

This year our council did away with FOS.  They have implimented a manditory $24 "activity fee" on every registration instead.

 

ROFL...I have to say that would be a deal breaker for me. I'd gladly pay my dues for BSA because these are services I require. I would not pay a user fee for something I don't....especially if the council is not good at managing its finances (not saying yours is, but I know mine isn't).

 

To be honest I like the activity fee idea better than FOS.  I think it would be easier to sell parent at registration every year by saying "yep, it's $75 a year to be in scouting.  1/3 goes to national, 1/3 to council and 1/3 to the unit.  Write one check now and we'll do local fundraisers for all the rest."  That's better than constantly coming back to the unit asking for more money.

But now you've just increased membership fees by 100% (from $24 to $48, $60 if you add in BL); and that's on top of any unit costs. So my unit charges $75 annually. We are cheap compared to others in my area ($100+ for many of them). Of that $75, BSA takes their share, the rest goes in to annual equipment maintenance, awards, meeting costs, etc. We balance out each year and have a cash-on-hand account of $2000 for emergencies. We would lose MANY members if BSA raised dues.

 

Why not just charge those units who use the camps? I don't see a need for other units to subsidize my unit using the camps, nor would I expect to subsidize other units. Make it demand-based, not a tax everyone approach.

@@Stosh, your comment brought this to mind immediately. I suspect the campus kooks would consider this racist.

 

This is a weird statement, to say the least:

 

Not really. KoC is refocusing giving financial and volunteer support to units. They are leaving the sponsorship to the parishes. It's a simple reorganization.

 

 

Assuming that parish sponsors can be found for over 1000 troops.

The parish themselves will sponsor them. It sounds like if you were a KoC unit you will be moved to a local church.

 

It would be good to hear from a KoC unit to see what they are experiencing. Our local KoC unit is simply moving to the church.

Schools, parks, camp grounds all have conservation projects in our area. Many times the owners don't even know they need the work done or don't think of them as conservation projects. We help the PLC and scouts look and identify such projects.

@@KenD500 we do a few training sessions with parents:

 

- we require YPT

- we request they take troop committee challenge

- we review the patrol method and how adults can help

- we review the other supplemental training on myscouting and request they take those to better understand event safety

- for those who are new parents we have a new parent training that reviews rank advancements, trail to first class, etc.

 

This has helped ground parents in the processes and procedures their scout will experience.

I disagree with having everyone starting on the new requirements. You do have Scouts out there working on T-2-1 under one set of requirements. It would not be fair for those Scouts to have them work  and then all of a sudden have the requirements change on them. A transition period is needed.

See my reply above. There is a transition.

 

In essence scouts joining this recruiting cycle use the new requirements. Scouts currently on scouts finish their current rank on the old requirements. TFC scouts can finish up to FC on the old requirements. After FC, or achieving their next rank, everyone must use the new requirements. After Jan 2017 everyone uses the new requirements regardless.

 

Easy.

That seems odd to me

He's spot on. BSA doesn't really want units starting new scouts out on the old 2015 requirements now. They request that units start new scouts on the 2016 requirements.

 

Current scouts not yet FC have until next December to finish their trail to first class under the 2015 requirements. Once done with FC you must use the new requirements. Scouts above FC can finish their present rank using the old request rents. Once done they use the new requirements.

 

As of Jan 2017 everyone uses the new requirements.

We do adult training. It helps and is pretty effective.

Note a big deal per se. Simply a reorganization still under the Catholic umbrella.

SMs DO have that ability already. They have the right to deny someone eligibility if they don't have Scout Spirit.  But in my experience the SM rarely does this. In all my years in the OA, only 1 SM regretted allowing a Scout on the ballot.

 

There's nothing quantitative for the SM to deny someone OA candidacy. The litmus test becomes to what extent a Scout lives up to the Oath and Law. For me, if you claim to have an "honor society" then you should have some quantitative measure of what "honor" means. ANY Scout that goes for an SMC or BOR for rank in any given year has to live up to the Oath and Law. So by extension, since ranks are also rarely held back, ANY Scout that advances in a year is living up to the Oath and Law. This is EXPECTED of Scouts, not something special.

 

If OA is supposed to be the elite of the elite, then making adherence to the Oath and Law grounds for entrance (along with a paltry number of camping days) does nothing to prevent an SM from allowing EVERYONE who qualifies to sit for election. It is also nothing special. Living the Oath and Law is a requirement for rank advancement, if not membership. And the very election process is nothing more than a popularity contest. So in the end the OA is not elite, for just about everyone qualifies. The OA is not fair, because it rewards popular kids and punishes the geeky kids. OA does not service, because after you are elected and go through ordeal, it is nothing more than a club with a patch that does little.

 

OA, like my district, is of little value. Sure they have cool patches, but what else? I can make cool patches too....and I won't just give them to the cool kids.

 

P.S. I have had DOZENS of kids who were not elite campers make OA. But the OA's "purpose" is not reflected in their requirements, so I had no ground to deny those Scouts membership in the OA. They met the paltry requirements and were in good standing. They were not trouble-makers, but they were not Norman Rockwell kids either. To deny them without quantitative cause (backed up by an actual policy or requirement) would have been harsh. Hence why the whole organization is a laugh. They need to change their requirements or stop taking themselves so seriously.

@@desertrat77, I personally would have changed OA this way:

• If a camping "honor society" make it hard to get. 15 nights over two years? How about 25-30 nights over two years? That's an achievement and worthy of someone who is truly a camper.
• Service group? Why not make service hours part of the joining requirement? Should "in cheerful service" be just a platitude or something that one really strives for? Why not make mega service hours a condition for election...or even for keeping your status?
• Make leadership at the troop level a requirement. Reward those who truly give of themselves as leaders credit for doing so.
• Want to stop the popularity contest? Elect candidates blindly. Have Candidate #1 and give his qualifications (e.g., 35 nights camping, 55 service hours, continuous troop leadership positions, etc.).

I laugh every time I hear someone mention the OA being a national honor society or national camping society of "elite" campers. Total hogwash. Even their stated mission of recognizing "Scouts and Scouters who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives" is a load of horse pucky. If that were true the requirements would reflect that mission by tying eligibility to those goals AND allowing SMs to hold back anyone who does not meet those requirements.

 

The OA is a swag factory that allows popular people to wear even more patches to make themselves feel good without having to lift a finger.

Out of this whole conversation, I think the part that bothered me the most was the tradition of inducting an active parent with their child.

 

Ok, as a youth, I was elected by my peers for membership.  Is it really different for Adults?  Or is this just a fancy way of electioneering to induct the parent?

 

One hopes the parent is a) a registered scouter, b) meets the OA requirements, and c) is elected by the other eligible adult leaders for the slots allotted for the unit.

@JoBob, @@gumbymaster and @@Stosh nailed it. IF you take him back there have to be conditions. Scouting is not about just taking the Norman Rockwell poster children, it's also for the troubled youth. Who knows, you may be the only thing standing between him and suicide or a life of crime.

 

We have an ASM in our unit who came from a broken home. He went on to succeed in life, went to a military academy and served as well. He handles our "trouble kids" because he is the best empathizer...but he does not let them get away with anything. Each has a behavior plan. They stray from it or break a health/safety rule then they're gone. They know they're on notice. There is an evaluation period and chance to get off the behavior plan. Most make it and shape up. Some don't. In ten years only two have been asked to leave or denied entry.

 

If you are not staffed/trained well enough to handle something like this then it may be an issue.

WWWWWEEEEELLLLLL...

 

...my troop is telling the new Crossovers next week to wait until January to get the new handbooks and use the new requirements.  We only have a Christmas Party between when they join on the 18th, and the first real meeting for them on Jan. 4th.

 

We did the exact same thing. We had our "holiday" party and invited the new Scouts to that. They will have their applications processed in January, pay their dues, and begin working on Scout next month. The books are supposed to be ready by mid- to late January.

 

I know one unit in my area that crossed their Scouts over this month and have already gotten them to Scout under the 2015 requirements. They wanted to stick with the 2015 requirements for another year and then transition. Frankly, I think they just got scared and were caught unprepared at how to manage the new requirements.

2) What set of requirements will you be using the 2015 ones or 2016 ones?

 

New Scouts for 2016 *must* use the 2016 requirements unless they officially cross over before January 1, 2016.

By the way, how much does a Eagle status cost nowadays?

 

Far less than dancing lessons/competitions or select sports.

Apparently our CC can't withstand whatever pressure is put on her to have one of these things once a year, so we do have them. I don't know whether that makes it "mandatory" or not because I don't know what "they" say to her. Their return from presentations in our unit is very low as I understand it.

 

Our unit still serves the district though: we run their ranges at Cub events, when we use council camps (maybe once a year, if that) we conduct a full day's service project, we have one adult running one of their committees, we send a representative or two to RTs, we participate in the district service project (SFF) and usually collect the most food despite having a poor area from which to work.

 

We suffer from two problems. First, we cannot sell our parents on the difference between supporting the unit and supporting the council. The parents see them all as "Boy Scouts". With the gear, uniforms, camp and events costing so much, it is hard for them to dig deeper and fund programs which their kids may never use. Second, and perhaps most important, is the sheer pomposity with which the council/district folks act before, during and after the FOS presentation. When my "Joe Average" *and* my "Gung Ho" parents walk out of a COH because they feel like they're being spoken down to, then the FOS folks have a problem.

They are currently called Boy Scout Joining Requirements, @@Stosh is right, it would make sense that requirements apply when you join. It looks like at least a few of the requirements might be "completed" before they join, such as turning 11 and finding a troop.

I haven't found anyone yet that can really explain the purpose of OA, chapter officer on down.  Talking with OA members about it, not pressing about secret ceremonies and such, just nuts and bolts of it, to me it sounds more like a mutual, self-admiration society than any organization that actually has a benefit.  At least in the area I am in.   I thought I always asked a simple question, "What does OA really do?"   I just get vague platitudes, blank stares, or puzzled looks.  Folks seem horrified that I am not interested and treat me like I just farted in the room.   It this attitude that is making me rethink going to camp this summer or even staying apart of scouts.

 

You must live near me, because that's what our OA folks are like...at the adult level.

 

I am not, nor do I ever plan to be, in the OA. There are no real qualifications for getting in other than camping and being popular. My unit has kids that exceed the Oa standard for anything but they are a bit geeky, and therefore don't get elected....yet these kids have been PLs, Instructors, etc. Several have more service hours than a good many of the Arrowmen....combined!!!

 

Go with your gut. If your local lodge/chapter is as you say it is they will only want more from you and will give nothing back. If your son wants to join I would leave that decision to him, but you sound like you have made a good decision.

Your horror stories make me proud of (The Great) Seneca district and how they train their FoS volunteers in the utmost courtesy.

 

I'd post the actual (3 page) email the exec sent out but I know he visits this board every so often. It is a piece of work.

 

I was always taught to communicate effectively you keep things short, bullet-point main points, etc. These folks ramble on and on and on. Last time they gave a presentation two old silver beavers spent 20 minutes talking about THEIR experiences in scouting. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. We actually had several families leave the COH. I had to stop them and ask them to give me a chance to yank those jokers off the stage. Thank goodness for a "problem" with the a/v gear.

This sounds like a bone to the religious right who was against the last two membership changes. BSA again attempting to appease people and getting it all wrong.

Sounds like a DE is getting desperate to meet his goal to "Fund Our Salaries". I've seen it before. We would give them a date to come give their pitch at a Blue and Gold or COH. We would not actively promote it or follow up on pledge cards that they failed to get signed that night.

 

We ask them every year to make the presentation under 10 mins, we give them a table outside the hall to conduct their business, and we used to always meet our previous year's contribution or more. One year they took 45 mins and sat in the COH in the back disrupting the service. After that we stopped inviting them. They invite themselves. We give them five mins and they're lucky to get $200. Then they want *US* to follow up on the cards handed out. 

 

Even when we contributed well the district was unresponsive to our requests. No reasons to contribute.

Received an interesting email from our District Chairman. It basically said "Every Unit, no matter the size, is expected to participate in this year’s FOS campaign...". This pretty much turned off our whole TC and adult leadership, so much so we are going to forego FoS this year.

 

Has anyone else had this sort of strong-arm statement from their district essentially dictating whether they will or won't participate in FoS?