Krampus

@@cchoat, @Eagle94-A1: Had a similar comment from a highly active ASM. Wanted to know if we were just baby sitters. Have not addressed the comment yet. Want to know what's driving the thought process. I suspect they might want to see more organization or coordinated involvement (already tons) from the ASMs. Not sure.

Yea. I've learned over the years to not take program knowledge basics for granted.

Gave this same issue to the PLC: Define boy led. One guys simply said, "Adults butt-out." A JASM chimed in with: "Scouts do everything, adults are the out-of-bounds markers. We go out of bounds, adults step in, coach, guide, counsel and the Scouts learn and move on. First Scout, 13. Second Scout, 17. 

Wish that worked with Committee members.

@@NJCubScouter you can't dismiss an analogy as irrelevant just because you disagree with it. 

The point was that in both cases you have people using their show (or column) to hock a product. That's pretty analogous. If you want to quibble about entertainers versus bloggers, feel free. That's not the distinction I draw.

If you look at the WSJ, Time, Newsweek and other publications you will see sponsored ads no and again. As long as it is clearly labelled I don't see this as selling out. We still live in a free market society, for now, so making money to pay for the cost of printing the publication is fair game. As long as there's no intent to deceive I don't see how this is unethical or a violation of any alleged code.

One of the first things you should do is decide just what you mean by “Scout-led troop.â€

 

Huh? Sounds like more lip service, either your troop is scout-led or it is not (but hopefully getting there).

Similar discussion to what @@KenD500 started. Depending on how you define it, the concept can mean different things to different people.

It's a blog. It is like when Carson and McMahon used to do commercials on the Tonight Show. No one thought anything less of them for doing a commercial as part of their show. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

Or do you think less of Carson and his lack of integrity too?

This was posted today online.

http://scoutingmagazine.org/2014/12/help-youth-leaders-build-scout-led-troop/

I work in the tech industry and it is clear that they don't have a big enough backend.  I'm hoping that will change.

They don't. And they don't have a good DR structure either. Lose your data and you are attached to another object by an incline plane wrapped helically around an axis.   

And one no longer remembers the tremendous amount of advertising/sponsorships of Boy's Life of years past?  I would say about half the pages were advertisements.  So now that it has gone digital, BSA can't do that anymore?  

I think what they object to, Stosh, is that a sponsored article or blog post is somehow "selling out" or dishonest", despite being clearly labelled as sponsored.

I just find it odd that after years of this happening the recent candy ad seemed to ignite the indignation. Also, if clearly marked, I don't see how it is dishonest. 

In all my years as a SM, I've never had to "drag" anyone anywhere.  

Saturday AM early, they can't drive. Parents are too involved in their golf games or mommy clubs to take them. "Drag" is my phrase. They are going willingly but at that hour "drag" is an appropriate verb.

Just curious, but are the folks who thought Scouting sold out for candy also upset at the sponsored ad from Henry Rifles? Or Daisey for the BB gun sponsored posts and articles?

https://www.facebook.com/scoutingmagazine/posts/10153177287617151

@@Krampus

 

Mr. Krampus, we want you to totally organize our next trip to Philmont.    Yeah, right!  I'll get right on it!

Pretty close. I am dragging the crew leads to the info meeting for the 2016 trek. I am there as back up.

Adults let boys lead. Adults do stuff when asked to by the boys. Adults challenge boys to overcome problems rather than step in and rescue them (unless health or safety or well-being is at stake).

Summer Camp just offers a framework for each Troop to figure out the best way for them to participate in it.  Other than Merit Badges, which is an individual pursuit, there is nothing holding a Troop back from using the Patrol Method at Summer Camp except lack of desire or lack of imagination. 

But even if troops do as you suggest the events and set up of summer camp supports a troop-based model (SPL meetings, not PL meetings, seating by troop, not patrol, group events are troop-based not patrol-based, etc.), it is tough if not impossible for patrols to feel included and exercise the patrol method.

I think the OP and subsequent posts were suggesting that, with a little effort, councils could support what is supposed to be one of the major objectives of Scouting rather than focusing on troop- or adult-led events.

Just putting the DO on the fire is nothing more than frying with a cover.  Not a problem if that's all one is doing.  However, the DO is intended to be an oven with heat sources both on top and bottom.  Too much neat on the bottom burns on the food, no heat on the top does't brown the top, 

 

The measured number of briquettes is just a way of regulating the actual baking temperature.  3 up and 3 down method (#12 oven uses 15 on top and 9 on the bottom) will give one a 350^o oven.  It's just a starting reference.  If the recipe calls for a cool oven, take away briquettes equally and a hot oven add briquettes equally.  If using wood instead of charcoal, just do an eyeball estimate of the briquette amount of heat using wood coals.  Remember charcoal lasts twice as long as wood so the briquettes need to be changed out every hour, but wood needs to be changed out every half hour.

 

For those who use weights instead of volumes, it might help to pre-measure the ingredients before the trip.  I do that all the time anyway just to cut down on prep time and measurement hassles.

@@Stosh is right. This book helps a great deal too.

I dont think you guys are using its full potential. It has tons of useful items.

 

I have been using it for a year. Came off of TM and other tracking programs.

 

Scoutbook.com has made it so much easier to track my scouts ranks, keeping track of camping log, hiking log, service hours ect.

 

Entering merit badges and advancements, printing off PO's and advancement reports.

 

Tracks leader training on whats been done, and what needs to be done with accuracy. Nothing worse then doing your recharter and finding out someone is behind.

Compared all those features, also the use of communications lists, use of mobile, security, customer service, up time (availability) and a host of other items. Had a hi-tech guy in our unit put together a comparison of all features and a cost comparison. TM came up more robust than SB. No compelling reason to switch. Nothing SB did that TM didn't already do. The lack of customer service to answer simple issues closed it for us.

What did you find SB did that TM didn't?

Camp I worked at in my Council is definitely not a patrol method camp. My Troop does our best to inject the patrol method into things while at that camp, but structurally the camp doesn't work the patrol method as well as it could. 

I don't recall summer camp or any other event sponsored about the district being patrol-based when I was a kid. Not sure this is a change so much as it is a continuation of what has always been.

Used the demo site for 30 days. Meh. We will stick with TM and our spreadsheets.

It has always cracked me up..... U of Scouting classes in high school classrooms

 

Ours is held at SMU every year. It is truly "university" of scouting. Same old topics. Same old teachers. Same old (stale) delivery.

I *did* find it useful during cub scouts and first year boy scouts. After that, it was like riding the log flume ride at Disney: It's a great place to get out of the heat and good for a few laughs, but not worth the wait in line and certainly not something to spend the whole day at.

Krampus, I'm curious what paperwork you're referring to.  With the exception of the signed copy of the charter signed by our COR, and of course the check,  we don't have to turn any paperwork in to the council.  If you're up to date on YPT you're good, if not you have to get good, other than that you check the box online next to the scouts and leaders who are staying and fill out some code for scouts who are being dropped.  We charge an annual dues, but we're fortunate enough to have the funds to cover the rechartering costs without collecting each individual check before we write the big check.  If we are somehow unsure that a scout is going to continue we contact them directly and ask before we recharter, but that's no more than one or two a year.

So we have a "packet" that requires the following:

Existing Member:

• Unit dues form. This is a piece of paper that allows the family to identify how many scouts/adults they are registering, how many Boy's Life they want, what roles the adults are going to take, etc. This is the "top sheet" of our packet. It walks through the process, key dates, location of the various forms, etc. since using this form and process we have nearly eliminate problems and questions in paperwork completion. This also allows families to change contact info in case things have changed since last year.
• BSA medical form (parts A,B,B). We collect these before the beginning of the calendar year. They go in to a book which we take on every outing. Also included is a copy (front/back) of their insurance card.
• YPT certification. Must be valid for at least 90 days in to the New Year.
• Annual release. We use the standard BSA release form. this eliminates the need for event-driven release forms. Specialty releases such as for climbing, shooting sports, scuba or other such activities are covered as events are scheduled. This release covers leaders for all other events.
• Payment. While members can pay online, we leave the option for them to include a check.
• Application (Optional): Adults only fill out an app if their role has changed or if adding a role like MBC.

New Members

• Same as existing members.
• Applications for youth and adults are not optional.

We've found that collecting this paperwork during recharter is MUCH easier than chasing folks later on. Part C of the med form is only needed for summer camp and we collect that in March-May when we collect summer camp paperwork. 

We've tried many other ways. Our membership folks swear by this method. With everything our council requires this has been a perfect process for us. Everyone is 100% done with annual paperwork by Xmas and ready to go in to the New Year. Money is collected, forms on file and no admin burden or people to track down.

Folks who miss the process have to go to council and take care of things themselves.

Summer camp is very SPL driven in most camps we attend. They have SPL meeting each day to deliver info. They deliver the same info at the SM coffee in the AM. The smart SM lets the SPL drive.

Camporees were almost always adult driven. Only recently was the planning scout-driven. All the logistics are still adult-driven.

Just curious, but I suspect there are not many units on the island. I further suspect that the ferry to get there is rather pricey, no? So any event held there would be quite $$$ for a scout. I can see summer camp, but a weekend camp out there would be big $$$ compared to other places on the mainland.

Add to all that the pressure to sell to a developer for profit and you can see how they'd be upside down on that property.

They're really pushing that recharter earlier and earlier!

 

October round table?!?  I think they're giving ours out at the November round table (early November), which is still very early by my thinking.

The thing isn't due until the END of January!

October RT works when you think about it. As @@Miami_Chief said, our councils is aligned with end of year, but even when it was January we did this:

October: Units prepare paperwork needed to collect from unit members. Prepare communications and make staff assignments for collecting, checking and processing paperwork.

November: Announcement goes out. Paperwork distributed and posted for members to pull down, fill out and submit. Myriad of questions. Our unit will only accepted completed packets to avoid rework and additional processing time.

December: Deadline for unit members to submit paperwork is 12/1. That gives unit leaders two weeks to validate and process paperwork before the Holidays kick in. We submit to council at the end of the month after all the docs have been collected, copied and checked off. Stragglers are on their own during January to get registered. We don't do it for them.

We've taken this approach every year because it reduces the work on our part and we have found folks more responsive than during the Holidays. January is busy enough and none of our leaders want to bust their butt because someone sat on theirs for two months and couldn't be bothered to get their paperwork in.

@@DuctTape what they have developed in its place has been argumentative skills. Parents complain about everything and the kids pick it up. Over the last 10-15 years of refereeing youth sports I have seen more and more how parents' attitudes toward winning, officials, coaches, each other, etc., has trickled down to the kids.

Just picked up my scout from refereeing a youth sports event. One coach laid in to two players (U9) at half time in front of everyone. His entire bench then laid in to the other team and the referees during the game. Forget that they were down 0-7 and could not retain the ball unless the other team left the field. This team was intent on blaming their incompetence on everyone other than themselves and their coach.

Hire a 20-something these days. You will see the same attitude.

One subject of skills I see left out a lot but is very important for everyday scouting is woods tools. Most adults have never touch an axe or tree saw, much less use them. I read once that the tree saw is the number one cause of emergency room visits for scouts.

 

Barry

The bread knife for cutting bagels was the number one cause of ER visits on Sunday mornings when I lived in the northeast. We still allow Scouts to use those....and adults.

Krampus:  Are you a Chartered Organization Representative?

 

If yes, you are a voting member.  If not, you're not.  You're a member of a unit chartered (licensed) by the local Council.

 

Words have meaning.

Then why does BSA count me as a member? They should more correctly count my CO as a member, and me as a member of the chartered unit.

Words should have the same meaning, not just be convenient when someone wants to count "members" to artificially bump up their numbers.